these thin squashed hip hop mixes need to go

[beat you down]

i put on some current stuff... my subwoofer is at rest.
i put on some 90's hip hop... my subwoofer is working his ass off.

can we have that back?
please?

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by beat you down

i put on some current stuff... my subwoofer is at rest.
i put on some 90's hip hop... my subwoofer is working his ass off.

can we have that back?
please?

Maybe too much hard limiting going on for the bass to really pop through. It is my life work to try to make the best sub woofer moving Hip Hop possible. When I grow up maybe I will get there.


Trying to make it

haha

-1-

[blackafgano]

Originally Posted by beat you down

i put on some current stuff... my subwoofer is at rest.
i put on some 90's hip hop... my subwoofer is working his ass off.

can we have that back?
please?

maybe you swapped them accidentally?

[Silver Sonya]

I'm with you, OP!

More air, more life, more headroom, more body!

Enough with the insecure, hyper-processed stuff. Seriously.

- c

[jjboogie]

Originally Posted by beat you down

i put on some current stuff... my subwoofer is at rest.
i put on some 90's hip hop... my subwoofer is working his ass off.

can we have that back?
please?

One extreme to another!

[Tempt]

90's bass was sampled.

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[Studio507]

^not always true, at all.

[superwack]

Heard "I need a Doctor." on SIRIUS today... later heard "Stan" on the same channel - It was crazy how different those tracks/Eminem sound

[Trell Blaze]

More analog synths, consoles, processors were used in the 90's than now. I dare u to name
one tune from ur 90s collection that was 100%ITB from production to post production...


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[PopularDemand]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

More analog synths, consoles, processors were used in the 90's than now. I dare u to name
one tune from ur 90s collection that was 100%ITB from production to post production...

Yep. You are never gonna get that sound of hardware synths and samplers recorded thru quality outboard thru consoles to 2" tape mixed down by a quality engineer on a large format console w/ outboard to 1/2" tape by being all ITB from start to finish.

The sound has been compromised in favor of the good things DAWs bring to the table. In reality the song is all that matters but when you go back it's night and day.

[barney956]

A few very successful mix engineers lurking around here that would argue that the mixes that they put out aren't thin or squashed. There's always been an element of the engineering industry that have had thin overly compressed mixes.

This is one of the convo's that just continuously goes in circles, bin the crap that's not making your Sub rumble and fire in some Dre or Kanye and leave yourself with more time to enjoy making your music and prove the mix engineers wrong.

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

More analog synths, consoles, processors were used in the 90's than now. I dare u to name
one tune from ur 90s collection that was 100%ITB from production to post production...


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Totally in the box didn't exist until the late 90s.

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver

Totally in the box didn't exist until the late 90s.

Exactly...

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by jjboogie

One extreme to another!

true, but people seem to get the point.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by PopularDemand

Yep. You are never gonna get that sound of hardware synths and samplers recorded thru quality outboard thru consoles to 2" tape mixed down by a quality engineer on a large format console w/ outboard to 1/2" tape by being all ITB from start to finish.

The sound has been compromised in favor of the good things DAWs bring to the table. In reality the song is all that matters but when you go back it's night and day.

There is no such thing as being all ITB from start to finish, unless you are using nothing but modelled synth sounds in your production. The most common sample based digital instruments that people buy are prerecorded using high end analog gear. It's easy to want to blame digital instruments for the way things sound nowadays, but we all know that has nothing to do with the real reason why things sound the way they sound.

The real compromise you make when trying to keep things ITB is having to use a more expensive analog front end to ensure that all the sounds going in are of great quality before you mix using software. After that point it just comes down to making smart mix decisions, and getting great mastering done afterwards. A lot of times mastering is where things tend to go downhill, and it's not necessarily or always the fault of the mastering engineer either.

[PopularDemand]

Originally Posted by PettyCash

There is no such thing as being all ITB from start to finish, unless you are using nothing but modelled synth sounds in your production.

And that is what most do. reason/logic. record vocals into logic. mix in pro tools. There are more songs being done this way then at any time. Not to mention those who feel the need to put 6 plugins on every track.

Virtual Instruments can be recorded using analog gear but they do not go thru the entire 90's type analog recording/mixing process so they still sound the way they sound when stuck in the box.

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by PopularDemand

And that is what most do. reason/logic. record vocals into logic. mix in pro tools. There are more songs being done this way then at any time. Not to mention those who feel the need to put 6 plugins on every track.

vocals are analog...

[PopularDemand]

Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver

vocals are analog...

C'mon man. we are talking about the entire analog process of the 90's vs what's happening today. Your vocals alone will not change the sound of the all ITB productions/mixes into what was happening in the 90's going thru the entire process. Hitting tape twice, transformers and tons of analog circuitry all over the place.

Don't get me wrong. I have been ITB/Hybrid since we got rid of the SSL console which became a big room heater, electricity sucker, and monitor for many reasons. But I have no illusions on a lot of the sound today vs the 90's in hip hop/r&b. I won't say all of the sound today because many are still going thru the entire process but substituting PT for the 2".

[Chris Lago]

Your best bet is to not listen to today's Hip-Hop and listen to 90s Hip-Hop! I'm still rocking my Gangstarr Full Clip album and it's amazing how good it sounds. I'm going to get Ownerz today.

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by PopularDemand

C'mon man. we are talking about the entire analog process of the 90's vs what's happening today. Your vocals alone will not change the sound of the all ITB productions/mixes into what was happening in the 90's going thru the entire process. Hitting tape twice, transformers and tons of analog circuitry all over the place.

Don't get me wrong. I have been ITB/Hybrid since we got rid of the SSL console which became a big room heater, electricity sucker, and monitor for many reasons. But I have no illusions on a lot of the sound today vs the 90's in hip hop/r&b. I won't say all of the sound today because many are still going thru the entire process but substituting PT for the 2".

The thing about digital is that it is too perfect. Whatever goes into your track is pretty much a seamless representative of the actual performance. Maybe it isn't what we are used to hearing and analog with all its inconsistencies (both good and bad) has character. Digital has no character, it is like tofu and takes on whatever seasonings applied to it. That is why I like it.

2" tape is a great medium to work with. But all with slicing and dicing in today's music it isn't practical. Sonically I love it but at the end of the day there are other options for adding character. I think music is lacking because void in talent on the artist's side.

[Simon FP]

cool but some early 90's track also lack a lot of bass, first few gangstarr and ATCQ album comes to mind or I am smoking crack??

[PopularDemand]

Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver

2" tape is a great medium to work with. But all with slicing and dicing in today's music it isn't practical. Sonically I love it but at the end of the day there are other options for adding character.

This is not about DAW vs analog. That's an endless argument. The OP asked why today's music does not sound as pleasing as music in the 90's and the recording chain and multiple stages of analog processes are a big reason. The rest is quality engineering.

[Storyville]

Or, bustle down and do everything you can to get the most powerful bass, warmest mids, glowing uppers, and sparkly treble - keeping the sound thick and powerful, yet clear and open and under the current paradigm. Don't create excuses, create results.

On loudness, if the clients want loud, get into the range of current music, and be a little less loud. If you try to quit loudness cold turkey, the client will relapse. If you gradually ween off it, the transition is more transparent.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Simon FP

cool but some early 90's track also lack a lot of bass, first few gangstarr and ATCQ album comes to mind or I am smoking crack??

You are definitely right! If I remember correctly, Know my Steez barely has any bass.

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by PopularDemand

This is not about DAW vs analog. That's an endless argument. The OP asked why today's music does not sound as pleasing as music in the 90's and the recording chain and multiple stages of analog processes are a big reason. The rest is quality engineering.

It's not, it is more of a time vs. quality issue. Whether you are working ITB or in the analog realm the idea that work needs to be done quickly is hurting sound quality. Couple that with "loudness wars" and the demenished expectation of the audience equals low quality records.

With the technology at hand there should be tons of great records being made but there aren't. That's why I don't think the technology is the issue. Taking one's time to get a great vocal sound is the problem, not whether or not its on tape or ITB.

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

You are definitely right! If I remember correctly, Know my Steez barely has any bass.

IDK why some records in the 90s where light on the lowend. Different engineers trying to figure out what works best in Hip Hop I guess. Today we pretty much have a better idea on what is needed in a Hip Hop track. BASS, bass, BASS!!!

[Trell Blaze]

First of all, digital is NOT a perfect representation of the original source. A series of snapshots of the original source woild be more accurate. It lacks the mechanical sideffects of analog medium.

And on that thought, we should remember that the OP was generally speaking of bass. Those mechanical sideffects are a primary contributor to that end of the spectrum.

This is not an analog vs digital thing but as it has been mentioned, more and more people are bypassing the front end with soft synths.

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[PopularDemand]

Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver

It's not, it is more of a time vs. quality issue. Whether you are working ITB or in the analog realm the idea that work needs to be done quickly is hurting sound quality. Couple that with "loudness wars" and the demenished expectation of the audience equals low quality records.

With the technology at hand there should be tons of great records being made but there aren't. That's why I don't think the technology is the issue. Taking one's time to get a great vocal sound is the problem, not whether or not its on tape or ITB.

Talent is another argument. There has always been bad artists. Even in the so called glory days. This is not what this thread is about.

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

First of all, digital is NOT a perfect representation of the original source. A series of snapshots of the original source woild be more accurate. It lacks the mechanical sideffects of analog medium.

perfect? no...

but so close that the different isn't important.

read here.
Exploring Digital Audio Myths and Reality Part 1 — Reviews and News from Audioholics

I have been doing my research...

[Marshall Oliver]

Originally Posted by PopularDemand

Talent is another argument. There has always been bad artists. Even in the so called glory days. This is not what this thread is about.

I know what the thread is about. Crushing the mix to death with compression, I get that. But in terms of sound quality I think that the speed in which we make the music and talent have just as much to do with it.

At the end of the day isn't the music the most important factor?