J DILLA DRUMS

[affinitysound]

i got an mpc 2000xl and i sample alot of drums but im tryin to get that j dilla thick snapy sound. would ruynning my turntable into some kinda compressor or filter before going into my mpc help? give me some recommendations please. thanks.

[74thstreet]

I believe that your refering to Dilla's feel. The style of his drumming. You'll need to get into the swing & quanitizing of the MPC 2000. To get sound of his drums you will need eq the sound you want. Then maybe you start the compression process maybe you won't need to compress.


I truely dig JD's feel and style (drunken style drums) also.

[Sirocco]

im listening to de la soul - verbal clap


lots of prettynarrow boosts on the drums, dont be scarred to eq very neanderthal-like

[S4v]

Originally Posted by Sirocco

im listening to de la soul - verbal clap


lots of prettynarrow boosts on the drums, dont be scarred to eq very neanderthal-like

Sirocco can you go into detail about what you think is going on with that track? Thats one of my favorite JD tracks

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by S4v

Sirocco can you go into detail about what you think is going on with that track? Thats one of my favorite JD tracks

i will load the track in sx and try to recreate a similiar kick and let u know how

its def one of my fav tracks and albums ever....they dont make tracks (or albums) like that anymore..

[Sirocco]

I disected the dilla bassdrum and i have my theory here.

from the waveform, i see there are 2+ kicks, most likely 2.

1 is sort of a compressed hollow click, probobly highpassed from 1K or so upwards, then rolled off slightly on the top end, as u can see it is compressed to hell and back to give it that punch, it then fades out. this is one of my methods, called "transient stealing" if not done properly, it can cause bad phase problems, so be aware!

the 2nd kick starts at the same time as the first and continues on as the first ends.
it is a low end thud, nothing special, but the transient is most lilekly compressed to aid the punch of the first kick.

hope this helps, it probobly only make sense in my mind

to get that holow clicky top-end, you should use very narrow Qs on ur EQ and boost upwards it various 1khz - 10 khz spots to taste. but his kick definitly has a sound that can be achieved with very little effort as soon as u wrap ur head around the concept.

-sirocco

[Sirocco]

i also noticed this "drunken drumming".

it is half quantized, half moved maybe 64-128 steps approximately (live of course)

any other tracks of his ud like me to check out?

[Jolle_Cobra]

could you please explain that "transient stealing"?

Could you make an analyze of Dillas Hold Tight (feat q-tip) from the Fantastic Volume 2. Those drums are really hard, but at the same time smooth.

/J

[coolout]

Originally Posted by Sirocco

im listening to de la soul - verbal clap


lots of prettynarrow boosts on the drums, dont be scarred to eq very neanderthal-like

some things you should probably address:

1.) Learn more about breakbeats.

The drums in "verbal clap" are from one of the most popular breaks, "mountain - long red" Guys have been sampling that break since 1988 or '89. The whole point of Dilla using those drums was to show how he could use them in a fresh way. He went through a phase where he was purposely finding new ways to use worn out breaks. Go record shopping, find some breaks, and mix them with other sounds. It's not that hard.

2.) Dilla was known for rarely using quantize.

It's a drum machine...play the machine like a drum.

[Jolle_Cobra]

coolout, that's true.

and even though Dillas drumstyle is "loose" and unqantised it's still alot to how he mado those sounds or hits.
To me that's not just cutting a break up and play. You have to layer it with the right sounds and process them. And that's what i wanna learn more about

[coolout]

Originally Posted by Jolle_Cobra

coolout, that's true.

and even though Dillas drumstyle is "loose" and unqantised it's still alot to how he mado those sounds or hits.
To me that's not just cutting a break up and play. You have to layer it with the right sounds and process them. And that's what i wanna learn more about

Trust me...there's isn't much more. Most classic beats don't use a whole lot of outboard processing. Dilla has a whole series of instrumental CDs with Bling47 that are straight out of his MPC direct to DAT.

If you want the same drum sound as "verbal clap" just chop up "long red", layer it with some drum machine sounds that compliment (my suggestion would be tr-909), and create a new pattern.

It really all started with Marley Marl who was the first one to really use modern drum sampling. He basically took the drums from The Honeydrippers' "impeach the president", mixed them with roland tr-808 drums and tapped out a new drum pattern. This quickly became the standard for hiphop production...acoustic drums chopped up from the breakdowns in old records mixed with electronic drums. If you study any "hip-hop" sample libraries, including the sounds in most software...i.e. reason or stylus, this what you really hearing. This is the standard for most hiphop producers unless they go down the neptunes/swizz beat/triton/motif/keyboard preset or the dirtysouth/vintage drum machine/synth route.

[Jolle_Cobra]

Sure that might be the case for those instrumental series. And the hits that he layerd where proberbly processed in one way or another.. Maybe you're right that it really isn't more to it, but when listen to Fantastic Volume 2 it's hard not to think he mixed and processed those drums.

[WideawakE]

"you're putting the pussy on a pedastool"

no offense to Dilla, one of the greatest ever

[GL Respect Due]

Http://www.myspace.com/sixuhclock

Thats my MySpace site. Check out the jam Web Of Deception. The melody, stabs, and drums we're all done without quant. However, I did use step edit to create a certain hop (which Dilla did 95% of the time as well).

Cool out:

I agree with you. It's not too much of a secret what Jay was doing. Chopping up classic breaks, layering them, and reprogramming them. Sometimes locked up, sometimes unquant w/ step edit, sometimes super sloopy with no quant period. Dilla was liberal with the EQ, he used EQ like an effect. Lots of gain on his snares, lots of upper frequency knock (500hz-4kz) on the kick.

[sasha222]

Originally Posted by GL Respect Due

Http://www.myspace.com/sixuhclock

i like that 1st track. makes me wish i still had my SP! theres nothing like the ringing sound of a pitched down sample.

when i think of JD drum sounds i think of layers--snaps claps and hollow sounds.

[beats4weeks]

Originally Posted by Jolle_Cobra

could you please explain that "transient stealing"?

Could you make an analyze of Dillas Hold Tight (feat q-tip) from the Fantastic Volume 2. Those drums are really hard, but at the same time smooth.

/J

--Those Drums are Sampled. Don't have the slum track in front of me right now, but as I remember I don't think there was any layering involved either on the kick or snare. Srtaight Jacked. Just joined this forum today so I don't know what peoples feelings are around here on the topic of "sample snitching" and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot around here, so I'll keep it hush. But It's not a hard one - they had a bunch of disco hits. peace.

[boodah]

One of the ways on how I make my kicks knock is to have two tracks of the same kick. One eq'd (Low end 40-80hz boost @3-6db narrow), filtered and compressed. The second track is eq'd (mid 600-1khz) filter out the low end and mix to taste.

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by beats4weeks

--Those Drums are Sampled. Don't have the slum track in front of me right now, but as I remember I don't think there was any layering involved either on the kick or snare. Srtaight Jacked. Just joined this forum today so I don't know what peoples feelings are around here on the topic of "sample snitching" and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot around here, so I'll keep it hush. But It's not a hard one - they had a bunch of disco hits. peace.

\
drums sounded that good in the disco age? are they processed the same as in the track?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by beats4weeks

Just joined this forum today so I don't know what peoples feelings are around here on the topic of "sample snitching" and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot around here, so I'll keep it hush. But It's not a hard one - they had a bunch of disco hits. peace.

No worries about sample snobs. We share all info here.

[beats4weeks]

Listen for yourself. def some eq tweaks, but they sound good to start with. keep in mind that the slum sample came from a cd while the OG came from vinyl. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first use of those drums in a rap song was "Greatest Man Alive" by Three X Dope in 1988. Philly Represent!

[coolout]

Originally Posted by beats4weeks

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first use of those drums in a rap song was "Greatest Man Alive" by Three X Dope in 1988. Philly Represent!

you're right...

cool c...steady b...WHAT!!! they were doing it well for a second.

I loved that first three X dope album, but I remember the second one being wack. I figured they couldn't recoup because of the sample clearences so they went more synth/new jack swing.

I also think that slum track was the first time someone played the original sample butt naked at the beginning and then flipped it. which is something dilla did a lot of later with what I like to call the "dill withers" set of beats and it's extension, donuts.

[DirtyMan]

dilla was all about sampled drums and layering and that 64th 128th off shit ...

[Dor]

Originally Posted by beats4weeks

Listen for yourself. def some eq tweaks, but they sound good to start with. keep in mind that the slum sample came from a cd while the OG came from vinyl. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first use of those drums in a rap song was "Greatest Man Alive" by Three X Dope in 1988. Philly Represent!

I just heard a fairly recent EST freestyle and he was still rippin' it.

[beats4weeks]

Haven't heard EST rhyme in a while - I know he's been winning grammy's though in the past couple years for penning Beyonce hits w/ Scott Storch. He's written hits for other recent artists too - don't know who off hand, but I think they're mostly in the R&B area of your local radio station.

[beats4weeks]

One thing I can tell that I never noticed before, is that they sound like they were sampled in stereo. They both kinda crack on the left and then verb on the right. Interesting b/c I've always sampled my drums summed mono and I thought most other hip-hop cats did too. Especially in those days of 1.4mg floppy disks. Well now that I know that's what Dilla was doing, I'm gonna go and resample my entire drum collection! j/k. Seriously though, I can't wait to hear some of the remaining Dilla albums/productions that haven't been released yet. I don't think I could ever have my fill of Dilla beats in a lifetime. RIP Jay Dee

[Dor]

Originally Posted by beats4weeks

Haven't heard EST rhyme in a while - I know he's been winning grammy's though in the past couple years for penning Beyonce hits w/ Scott Storch. He's written hits for other recent artists too - don't know who off hand, but I think they're mostly in the R&B area of your local radio station.

Good to hear he's doing his thing.

[mitchwully]

Originally Posted by beats4weeks

One thing I can tell that I never noticed before, is that they sound like they were sampled in stereo. They both kinda crack on the left and then verb on the right. Interesting b/c I've always sampled my drums summed mono and I thought most other hip-hop cats did too. Especially in those days of 1.4mg floppy disks. Well now that I know that's what Dilla was doing, I'm gonna go and resample my entire drum collection! j/k. Seriously though, I can't wait to hear some of the remaining Dilla albums/productions that haven't been released yet. I don't think I could ever have my fill of Dilla beats in a lifetime. RIP Jay Dee

isn't it so that kickdrums HAS to be in mono otherwise the low end from both channels will conflict and sound real bad like an earthquake or something?

maybe that crackle was just an aftereffect.. something he did to mess with your minds

[DAH]

Originally Posted by Sirocco

\
drums sounded that good in the disco age? are they processed the same as in the track?

in the disco production since about `75 kicks were freakkin crazy, punchy and fat. It would be great if someone with the first hand experience on those disco recording\mixing technologies chimed in.

[michaelday]

Originally Posted by beats4weeks

Listen for yourself. def some eq tweaks, but they sound good to start with. keep in mind that the slum sample came from a cd while the OG came from vinyl. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first use of those drums in a rap song was "Greatest Man Alive" by Three X Dope in 1988. Philly Represent!

[ddash]

J dilla had some of the best drums and style of drumming of all time. He definitely tweaked and was great at equing them. Wish he was still here making tracks.