Rap Lead Vocal - How many tracks?

[The Marrvel]

I know that there are no rules to vocal recording and one should just use their ears, but I was wondering if rap leads are typically doubled. I don't mean recording different takes, I mean simply doubling (copying/pasting) the lead vocal, i'm not talking about adlibs.

One time, in a friend's very low end home studio, I actually doubled the lead vocal and compressed only one of them. I adjusted both levels acordingly (the comp'd vocal about was 10db louder) and the result was great. The vocal sat well in the mix but also cut through enough to sound like radio. I was surprised considering the fact that we used an SM58. I suppose the result was a combination of keeping the dynamics intact with the original vocal recording and the compression on the other helped it cut through the mix.

Is this a common practice even for higher end equipment with condensers and preamps or do you all typically just use one single lead vocal?

Thanks.

[Brandino221]

I don't like the sound of fake doubles. I say get it tight and get it right. It will sound fuller and have more life if you double it (when needed). Peace

[The Marrvel]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

I don't like the sound of fake doubles. I say get it tight and get it right. It will sound fuller and have more life if you double it (when needed). Peace

No no no...

I know what you're talking about because I also hate the phasing sound of fake doubles. I have always done adlibs and doubles on separate takes.

I already said that I didn't use that technique for doubling or adlib purposes.

In fact, you can't even tell that I doubled the vocal, the signal doesn't move. Doing different takes for the entire lead vocal would make it sound like two voices at once and I hate that style of rap on a LV.

I doubled this lead in particular to make the vocal cut through the mix some more. In this situation, that effect cannot be replicated by simply compressing or turning up the gain on a single vocal track.

I'm just wondering if other people have ever done this.

Hope it makes sense now.

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

I don't like the sound of fake doubles. I say get it tight and get it right. It will sound fuller and have more life if you double it (when needed). Peace

I 2nd that.. a good "Artist" will be able to dub takes with no sweat. once u have recorded the takes solo them. They should be in sync....if not the artist will be able to hear what parts are not together. I usually to 3 good takes.

[HDGuru]

I get great results by doing the primary lead, panning it hard left, then cutting the double track panned hard right. This way the rapper can hear in his headphones exactly how tight he/she is, and get it near perfect. Follow this with a vocalign treatment, and you can either mix the rap panned for a stereo sound, or bring the pans back to center and drop the double track by 6 dB or so for a mono type doubled sound.

[No4PCs]

Its polemic, but i think double the voice "singing" is better than just copying the lead track. More "real" in vocal.But need be totally in sync to avoid that horrible phase.(Or never will be in phase? )
That copy and past The Marrvel technic , compressing 1 track is new for me. Good trick , someday i will try.

[No4PCs]

I cant understand the point, ( sorry my english in advance ).
The lead vocal ( with so many takes ) you mean, other tonality?
To make chorals, this ppl recording so many different tracks in many different tonalities ( 8-10, etc diff. tonalities 3rds, 6ths, so on !)to make the chorals.
But , i think you want discover the Fat tecnic to the lead vocal Sound, is this?
Your tecnic copy and paste i think the betterform to Fat the sound...

[The Marrvel]

Everybody jumped on this adlib/doubles thing. I wasn't even talking about adlibs or doubles or whatever you wanna call em.

I agree that when it comes to the "double track", actually doing real takes as opposed to copying and pasting is the way to go. I only used the copy/paste/compression technique to make the vocal cut through. It really seemed to improve the overall presence of the vocal on an otherwise weak vocal chain (SM58 to M-Audio interface).

Regardless of how 'good' an artist is, they ain't gonna make stacked vocals sound like one lead. I don't care how good they are.

Listen to Kanye's lead vocal on "Heard em Say" or even "Gold Digger". Let's say I want my vocal to sound like that, no doubles or anything.

Regardless of how well the artist was 'in sync', If I were to do more than one take to 'thicken' the vocal, it wouldn't sound like a solo take.

The copy/paste technique that I used maintains the 'soloness' of the take. Again, I only did this to enhance the presence.

With that being said, has anyone else ever done something like this? Is it even necessary with a nicer mic/preamp?

[No4PCs]

Originally Posted by The Marrvel

With that being said, has anyone else ever done something like this? Is it even necessary with a nicer mic/preamp?

Oh, i think condenser and channel strip will do the job.
A mic like U87 Neumann plus a VoxBox Manley tube or Avalon 737 will sounds more "enhanced" .The tube compressor have ssuperior sonic qualities to record human voice, i think the condenser mic have more "in the face" result for mix.
The condenser mic have more detailed and presence effect than dynamic mic, like sm59, but i did read in this forum about the sm57 for RAP vocal.
Lets hear from other guys here, friend. Thank you.

[Brandino221]

Another thing..compress overdubs different and EQ them different. Pan them just alittle bit off of eachother.

[Igotsoul4u]

If you are talking about duplicating the lead track and processing the new one completely differently to beef up the original lead then thats ok, but is not really done that often. Its definetly a good tool if your vocal is totally screwed up. I recently had to do this with a vocal that was tracked horribly. By the time I had fixed the EQ the power of the vocal was gone. I duplicated the track and compressed the crap out of it and added back some of the frequencies that made her vocal powerful.

[jsrockit]

If you want your vocals to sound like a pop song...you will have to do more than doubling vocals. You will need an excellent mic, an excellent mic pre-amp, a nice vocal booth, great outboard effects etc.... however, there really are no rules...and you can do whatever you want. If doubling the vocal (cut and paste style) sounds right to you and gives you the sound you want....then go with it.

[Brandino221]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

If you want your vocals to sound like a pop song...you will have to do more than doubling vocals. You will need an excellent mic, an excellent mic pre-amp, a nice vocal booth, great outboard effects etc.... however, there really are no rules...and you can do whatever you want. If doubling the vocal (cut and paste style) sounds right to you and gives you the sound you want....then go with it.

I think u need good talent. U can get a great track if u know what you are working with. Sure a great mic pre helps but it can be done without one as well. A booth well sure that helps too but then again if u know your room and gear u are using u can get great sounds.

[Flymax]

Hey Marrvel,
Yes, that's a common mix technique. Another way to do it is to set up an aux track with a compressor (often set to squash) on it and send whatever you'd like to it in whatever amounts.
-Pete C

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

I think u need good talent. U can get a great track if u know what you are working with. Sure a great mic pre helps but it can be done without one as well. A booth well sure that helps too but then again if u know your room and gear u are using u can get great sounds.

Yes, you are right... I assumed talent was already in the mix. However, he did mention Kanye...which was probably produced in the environment I described. I also went on to say there are no rules.

[HDGuru]

It also depends on the type of rap your working on. Souther rap leads are usually (not always) doubled while most new york style rap is a single lead with backing ad libs. West coast stuff can go either way. Tupac for example almost always doubled his leads, while Snoop almost never does. Mostly it depends on if the rappers voice stands up on its own with a single track, or needs reinforcement with doubles. Incidentally I rarely if ever copy/paste a rap and parallel process it.

[TWC]

I really like the sound of the vocals on this track by Trae out of Houston. I'd like to know how it was mixed. Here's a short mp3 clip off Rapid Ric's mixtape Whut It Dew 3:

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...Q37M7SRLOLOXBD

[HDGuru]

Sounds like a tripled lead vocal with a - pitch shift effect on the lead blended in.

[The Marrvel]

Fellas, thanks for all the responses, quite helpful.

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by FLYMAX

Another way to do it is to set up an aux track with a compressor (often set to squash) on it and send whatever you'd like to it in whatever amounts.
-Pete C

This is always a solid technique for any vocals