Software is NOT the business.. To me.

johndough · 22nd January 2006, 03:53 AM

This is my opinion only and it might be long but here it goes.

I been using hardware based equipment for years. I started to see and hear a lot about the software stuff, and thought I would give it try.

Mainly I prefer to chop samples in the computer and am tired of the zip disk thing. Getting everything into the MPC and ready to go is a mission. I lose stuff, save things in the wrong places etc. It takes too long, Im over it. Its easier to stay organized on a computer.

Also the software sound libraries are much better than the keyboard stuff. So I definitely wanted to try that out. The other huge thing is im tired of taking 99 pieces of equipment to the big studio. So I figured I would be able to take pro tools sessions in instead. It was really all an issue of workflow.

Ok so I asked around and on here and people said to stick with PT because I know it. Use battery and kontakt and PT to sequence. Some also said PT 7 had a huge midi upgrade and I was running 6.9

Before I got the upgrade I A/B'd drum sounds from battery and the MPC through the 002rack converters. It was really the first time I tested the 002rack converters like this. The sounds in question were taken from records and processed at a big studio using that equipment there then burned to CD. I chopped what I wanted in the computer and saved all the files to ZIP then placed them in the MP. Battery sounded about 5-10% better as expected since the 002 converters arent the best but I expected that. For those curious about the converters they are not horrible. You can definatley live with them.

Loading samples into battery was like heaven... Until you want to trigger it from the MPC. The pads on the MP trigger RANDOM cells in battery for some reason. But they do work correctly with one of my keyboards. Ok not my preference but ok. The other thing too is the latency. In LE you cant engage low latency monitoring and have a plugin enabled.

Then changing the programs in battery to do a one shot or note off type stuff was weird to me. Then I said ok lets try a sequence. Oh man quantize in this thing is stupid. Menus and undo's sliders for 45 things. Like dude just quantize the shit and let me keep pushing.

So I figured ok I better get PT 7. Did that.. WOW it crashes when I import audio, sometimes it just stops playing for no reason. Crashes at random. The so called MIDI improvement with the "instrument" track is different but it doesnt change the game to me at least. So I figured I will uninstall it and put back 6.9.... Nope I get some error when I try to run it... Ok back to 7.. Its running a little better but still flakey.

The bottom line is it really shouldnt be this difficult. Hardware you turn it on and start working. Its been a couple weeks now and I havent been able to work.

So... Now I got to start looking into other alternatives. Maybe MPC 4000?(NO SSL YET)) Maybe Cubase?(TONY) Im not sure about the cubase thing after going through this. The other thing too I dont want to buy this and not be able to return it since you cant return software. They really need to have a demo of stuff like that.

Also I need to stay in PT to be compatible with everyone. I know a lot of people are into 2 ttrack stems these days but Im trying to take advantage of the engineers and outboard equipment at the big studios. Although Im willing to loose that level of production on 5% of my stuff that makes it to the big studio if that means I can improve everything or have a better workflow.

No disrespect to people on the software thing this is just my opinion.

No4PCs · 22nd January 2006, 04:12 AM

Hi friend. Im in dilema actually, looking for buy PTMP.
I always did record with hd recorders and i have a sample keyboard.
I think you need just track your job and save PT sessions to cd.
Go to pro studio with the cd to mix.
Im affraid to buy pc and softwares too. Im not a guru computer.

**TonyBelmont** · 22nd January 2006, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndough

Ok so I asked around and on here and people said to stick with PT because I know it. Use battery and kontakt and PT to sequence. Some also said PT 7 had a huge midi upgrade and I was running 6.9

Before I got the upgrade I A/B'd drum sounds from battery and the MPC through the 002rack converters. It was really the first time I tested the 002rack converters like this. The sounds in question were taken from records and processed at a big studio using that equipment there then burned to CD. I chopped what I wanted in the computer and saved all the files to ZIP then placed them in the MP. Battery sounded about 5-10% better as expected since the 002 converters arent the best but I expected that. For those curious about the converters they are not horrible. You can definatley live with them.

I would have never recommended using PT for sequencing. Some of the worst experiences in my life involved using virtual instruments like Battery and Kontakt in PT 6.7... I don't care what they change or what they add. The stability of the RTAS platform as far as NI is horrid. I don't know if it is the fault of NI or Digi, and I don't care. I'm not going through it again, and will never recommend it to anyone..

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndough

Loading samples into battery was like heaven... Until you want to trigger it from the MPC. The pads on the MP trigger RANDOM cells in battery for some reason. But they do work correctly with one of my keyboards. Ok not my preference but ok. The other thing too is the latency. In LE you cant engage low latency monitoring and have a plugin enabled.

Then changing the programs in battery to do a one shot or note off type stuff was weird to me. Then I said ok lets try a sequence. Oh man quantize in this thing is stupid. Menus and undo's sliders for 45 things. Like dude just quantize the shit and let me keep pushing.

If you want to use the MPC to trigger the sounds, you need to create a template in the MPC to correspond to the correct midi notes in Battery. It does the same thing if you plug the MPC into a Triton it will trigger the notes that the MPC defaults to. You can easily change this and you'll only have to do it once, then save.

Your other issues have more to do with the work flow of PT... I have a 002 rack and run Cubase SX and Logic and have no issues with latency. I mean there's a little bit of latency, but nothing I can't live with.

Also, changing the setting from one shot to note-off is easy in Battery, and much more flexible then my MPC3000. You can have way more sounds stopping other sounds, etc and its pretty simple to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndough

The bottom line is it really shouldnt be this difficult. Hardware you turn it on and start working. Its been a couple weeks now and I havent been able to work.

So... Now I got to start looking into other alternatives. Maybe MPC 4000?(NO SSL YET)) Maybe Cubase?(TONY) Im not sure about the cubase thing after going through this. The other thing too I dont want to buy this and not be able to return it since you cant return software. They really need to have a demo of stuff like that.

I went through the very same issues as you and more in my first ventures into computer sequencing with PT LE... I was very close to dropping the whole thing and someone convinced me to try Cubase and all my problems seemed to go away. It was easier to open instruments, I got better processing power, and was able to make complete productions with Cubase without any issues....

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndough

Also I need to stay in PT to be compatible with everyone. I know a lot of people are into 2 ttrack stems these days but Im trying to take advantage of the engineers and outboard equipment at the big studios. Although Im willing to loose that level of production on 5% of my stuff that makes it to the big studio if that means I can improve everything or have a better workflow.

No disrespect to people on the software thing this is just my opinion.

Keep the 002.... All you need to do is make your beats the way you want with the software you want. Then bounce each instrument, etc into wav files and import them into PT... This is the way I do it.

If you want to sequence with software, I would really recommend you trying out Cubase or Logic over PT for actual music production. You can always mix in PT after you make your beats.

lpuma · 22nd January 2006, 09:05 AM

try ableton live 5.

tengu · 22nd January 2006, 11:11 AM

I am a big fan of MPC's and software. I will often use Battery in cubase for drums, though I am now using mainly using Logic and its softsyth samplers (which are far better in my opinion). I have to say that Battery produces some terrible artifacts when using mute groups. THe amount of anomallies is noticeable enough to make it annoying and it ADSR curve settings are terrible. I will still use it for drums on the odd occasion and some will tell me they have experienced no problems with it but wait until you do. I am yet to try Battery 2 but as far as I am concerned it has definite limitations and needs some work.

RedOne · 22nd January 2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpuma

try ableton live 5.

.... but still have my 60II here!

d.dot · 22nd January 2006, 12:14 PM

Speaking of converters. The 002 is decent but my homie has an apogee front end and I definitely can tell the difference.

I'm using the 4K with the adat option. I bypass the 002 converters by using the light-pipe in. Now I just need to cop the digital card for my focusrite 430 and I can bypass the 002 converters alltogether when tracking vox or an instrument. I'm sure the focusrite clock is better.

Anybody tried triggering Guru from the MP? Its sort of like having the best of both worlds.

johndough · 24th January 2006, 03:39 AM

Good so Im not on crack... Cubase it is then.... Thanks for the time folks. I will get back to you soon on the progress...

halfguard · 24th January 2006, 06:00 AM

i do alot of my sequencing in pt, except for drums (mpc). however, pt is the only software sequencer i know so i might not know what im missing. i came up on an mpc 60. i like the computer better for most things. i always hear people who know better than me that logic, cubase, and sonar are better for midi, and they are probably right. however, i learned computer midi through pt and it works fine for me. as good as the others, i dont know. it is usable.

PhonoquO · 24th January 2006, 07:48 AM

I second tony's opinion....
I've been using cubase sx for the last couple of years, and although steinberg can be a little slow to getting the bugs worked out of the newer versions, once they are, sx is a solid midi/audio sequencer that can do circles around most protools rigs. I use battery 2 for drums, trying guru, and use a bunch of other vsti's like kontact, hypersonic, colossus etc. Best advice is to optimize your pc for audio (much information available) and keep it off the net.

If any of you cubase sx users need tips on how to setup sidechain compression in cubase, holla and i'll post up a description and a flash video.

JDN · 24th January 2006, 09:07 AM

I've actually had GREAT luck switching to the hardware environment, my MPC200XL and outboard gear are litereally collecting dust. I got Logic, Battery, Various softsynths, EXS sounds, etc. I transfered all my MPC sounds to battery...I ****ing love battery, never needed a manual or anything, totally intuitive.

Logic took a little bit to get used to, but after learning the basics, I'm completely up and running but fortunately I had some friends who showed me the basics. I do my sequencing just like I did on the MPC, logic has great swing templates, and then I just export the individual audio tracks into PT. I do the bulk of my cuts and arranging and effects in PT(like I did anyway before logic), becasue I'm a PT engineer and have years of PT experience and can navigate around much quicker than I can in logic.

I tried reason, didn't work for me cause of the lack of audio support, never got comfortable with the PT rewire thing. I tried PT sequencing, Hated it! anyway, that's my 2 cents, I work SOOO much quicker and efficiently now, don't miss zips at all....the one thing I miss is the 16 levels for pitch feature on the MPC which i used to use for melodic hits on the mpc, but it's a small sacrafice. I'm literally so pleased(after years of waiting) to finally see the day where I can do what I want to do with just a controller and a great computer, no hardware synths or MPC's

lpuma · 24th January 2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndough

Good so Im not on crack... Cubase it is then.... Thanks for the time folks. I will get back to you soon on the progress...

cubase is nice for audio n midi, but foreal I think live 5 is much better for hip hop.

HGK · 24th January 2006, 09:14 AM

@Johndough are you running a digi design approved computer? Your problem can be anything from service pack 1 to pace drivers to an incompatible firewire card. Feel free to post your specs or hit the digi duc for help pertaining to your issues.

johndough · 24th January 2006, 11:52 AM

Computer is definatley an issue.

This is a new computer and its definatley been an issue. Its a athlon X2 4200. PT doesnt seem to like em... Thats another pain in the butt about this computer music thing.

Eager2Know · 24th January 2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndough

Mainly I prefer to chop samples in the computer and am tired of the zip disk thing. Getting everything into the MPC and ready to go is a mission. I lose stuff, save things in the wrong places etc. It takes too long, Im over it. Its easier to stay organized on a computer.

Did you ever think of using an Akai SXXXX Sampler and MESA? I mean if you don't use the MPC as a sequencer, a S2000 or S3000XL would do the trick too.

Working with the dial and the small knobs on the SXXXX series sure sucks, but I can connect via SCSI and work on my PC/Mac all the time. I can keep my samples on my PC and easily copy them over to the sampler and control the whole parameters via scsi......

Pretty neat I think..

Methlab · 24th January 2006, 06:37 PM

PhonoquO I do the exact same thing you do..Cubase, same Vstis..Battery..I love it.

Is your sidechain method made using a quad bus? I use my kick as a key to duck the bass..does the bass have to be in stereo for this setup? I have it in mono..it seems to work fine, but just checking...it would be cool to see your flash on it..because it can be a bit confusing to setup sidechaining.

Justice · 25th January 2006, 02:43 PM

I love my MPC3K.. I record everything in it!!!!!!!!!!! If I make a mistake I replay it until its right!!!!

Keeps my chops up!!!!!

I sit in front of computers all day. When I make music I like to play not program!!!

just my 50 cent!!

halfguard · 25th January 2006, 10:41 PM

ok, all this talk has got me wondering what im missing. if you had to pick one, cubase or logic wich would it be? are both of their groove templates right on?

**TonyBelmont** · 26th January 2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfguard

ok, all this talk has got me wondering what im missing. if you had to pick one, cubase or logic wich would it be? are both of their groove templates right on?

They're both great programs....

I think if I were on a Mac, I would want Logic. But, if you're on a PC then Cubase...

TWC · 26th January 2006, 08:42 PM

off topic, but I cracked up when I saw this as Eager2Know's image:

Thats Bubbles from the Trailer Park Boys.. funniest show on TV. now go download it.
He was actually part of this band sandbox and worked as an audio engineer before doing the show. listen to this song.. hilarious:

Bubbles - Liquor and *****s

halfguard · 27th January 2006, 04:30 AM

tony to be honest, i always wanted to use logic. however, when i got back in the game, i couldnt afford the mac /logic/the interface etc....so i went pc and got the 002rack. my pc is pretty powerful, so i cant complain. im actually glad i got the pc becuase if not id have a single g4 right now and id really be complaing. im going to look into cubase more. i wish they had a demo. i dont think now is the best time to buy a new mac. funny thing is, i just got a new imac g5 for the home computer. right before the intelmac was released

.....i know thats not really powerful enough to run logic in the way i would like.

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22nd January 2006, 03:53 AM	#1
johndough Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 128	Software is NOT the business.. To me. This is my opinion only and it might be long but here it goes. I been using hardware based equipment for years. I started to see and hear a lot about the software stuff, and thought I would give it try. Mainly I prefer to chop samples in the computer and am tired of the zip disk thing. Getting everything into the MPC and ready to go is a mission. I lose stuff, save things in the wrong places etc. It takes too long, Im over it. Its easier to stay organized on a computer. Also the software sound libraries are much better than the keyboard stuff. So I definitely wanted to try that out. The other huge thing is im tired of taking 99 pieces of equipment to the big studio. So I figured I would be able to take pro tools sessions in instead. It was really all an issue of workflow. Ok so I asked around and on here and people said to stick with PT because I know it. Use battery and kontakt and PT to sequence. Some also said PT 7 had a huge midi upgrade and I was running 6.9 Before I got the upgrade I A/B'd drum sounds from battery and the MPC through the 002rack converters. It was really the first time I tested the 002rack converters like this. The sounds in question were taken from records and processed at a big studio using that equipment there then burned to CD. I chopped what I wanted in the computer and saved all the files to ZIP then placed them in the MP. Battery sounded about 5-10% better as expected since the 002 converters arent the best but I expected that. For those curious about the converters they are not horrible. You can definatley live with them. Loading samples into battery was like heaven... Until you want to trigger it from the MPC. The pads on the MP trigger RANDOM cells in battery for some reason. But they do work correctly with one of my keyboards. Ok not my preference but ok. The other thing too is the latency. In LE you cant engage low latency monitoring and have a plugin enabled. Then changing the programs in battery to do a one shot or note off type stuff was weird to me. Then I said ok lets try a sequence. Oh man quantize in this thing is stupid. Menus and undo's sliders for 45 things. Like dude just quantize the shit and let me keep pushing. So I figured ok I better get PT 7. Did that.. WOW it crashes when I import audio, sometimes it just stops playing for no reason. Crashes at random. The so called MIDI improvement with the "instrument" track is different but it doesnt change the game to me at least. So I figured I will uninstall it and put back 6.9.... Nope I get some error when I try to run it... Ok back to 7.. Its running a little better but still flakey. The bottom line is it really shouldnt be this difficult. Hardware you turn it on and start working. Its been a couple weeks now and I havent been able to work. So... Now I got to start looking into other alternatives. Maybe MPC 4000?(NO SSL YET)) Maybe Cubase?(TONY) Im not sure about the cubase thing after going through this. The other thing too I dont want to buy this and not be able to return it since you cant return software. They really need to have a demo of stuff like that. Also I need to stay in PT to be compatible with everyone. I know a lot of people are into 2 ttrack stems these days but Im trying to take advantage of the engineers and outboard equipment at the big studios. Although Im willing to loose that level of production on 5% of my stuff that makes it to the big studio if that means I can improve everything or have a better workflow. No disrespect to people on the software thing this is just my opinion.

22nd January 2006, 04:12 AM	#2
No4PCs Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brasil Posts: 714	I agree Hi friend. Im in dilema actually, looking for buy PTMP. I always did record with hd recorders and i have a sample keyboard. I think you need just track your job and save PT sessions to cd. Go to pro studio with the cd to mix. Im affraid to buy pc and softwares too. Im not a guru computer. __________________ "Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - Tibetan Book of the Dead

25th January 2006, 02:43 PM	#17
Justice Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 530	MPC I love my MPC3K.. I record everything in it!!!!!!!!!!! If I make a mistake I replay it until its right!!!! Keeps my chops up!!!!! I sit in front of computers all day. When I make music I like to play not program!!! just my 50 cent!! __________________ Justice "Big Jus" www.myspace.com/saej http://www.myspace.com/suburbanentertainmentllc

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22nd January 2006, 09:05 AM	#4
lpuma Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,041	try ableton live 5.

22nd January 2006, 11:11 AM	#5
tengu Gear addict Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 409	I am a big fan of MPC's and software. I will often use Battery in cubase for drums, though I am now using mainly using Logic and its softsyth samplers (which are far better in my opinion). I have to say that Battery produces some terrible artifacts when using mute groups. THe amount of anomallies is noticeable enough to make it annoying and it ADSR curve settings are terrible. I will still use it for drums on the odd occasion and some will tell me they have experienced no problems with it but wait until you do. I am yet to try Battery 2 but as far as I am concerned it has definite limitations and needs some work.

22nd January 2006, 12:14 PM	#7
d.dot Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 390	Speaking of converters. The 002 is decent but my homie has an apogee front end and I definitely can tell the difference. I'm using the 4K with the adat option. I bypass the 002 converters by using the light-pipe in. Now I just need to cop the digital card for my focusrite 430 and I can bypass the 002 converters alltogether when tracking vox or an instrument. I'm sure the focusrite clock is better. Anybody tried triggering Guru from the MP? Its sort of like having the best of both worlds.

24th January 2006, 03:39 AM	#8
johndough Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 128	Good so Im not on crack... Cubase it is then.... Thanks for the time folks. I will get back to you soon on the progress...

24th January 2006, 06:00 AM	#9
halfguard Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: south fla Posts: 1,007	i do alot of my sequencing in pt, except for drums (mpc). however, pt is the only software sequencer i know so i might not know what im missing. i came up on an mpc 60. i like the computer better for most things. i always hear people who know better than me that logic, cubase, and sonar are better for midi, and they are probably right. however, i learned computer midi through pt and it works fine for me. as good as the others, i dont know. it is usable.

24th January 2006, 07:48 AM	#10
PhonoquO Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North of Toronto Posts: 821	I second tony's opinion.... I've been using cubase sx for the last couple of years, and although steinberg can be a little slow to getting the bugs worked out of the newer versions, once they are, sx is a solid midi/audio sequencer that can do circles around most protools rigs. I use battery 2 for drums, trying guru, and use a bunch of other vsti's like kontact, hypersonic, colossus etc. Best advice is to optimize your pc for audio (much information available) and keep it off the net. If any of you cubase sx users need tips on how to setup sidechain compression in cubase, holla and i'll post up a description and a flash video.

24th January 2006, 09:07 AM	#11
JDN Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 561	I've actually had GREAT luck switching to the hardware environment, my MPC200XL and outboard gear are litereally collecting dust. I got Logic, Battery, Various softsynths, EXS sounds, etc. I transfered all my MPC sounds to battery...I ****ing love battery, never needed a manual or anything, totally intuitive. Logic took a little bit to get used to, but after learning the basics, I'm completely up and running but fortunately I had some friends who showed me the basics. I do my sequencing just like I did on the MPC, logic has great swing templates, and then I just export the individual audio tracks into PT. I do the bulk of my cuts and arranging and effects in PT(like I did anyway before logic), becasue I'm a PT engineer and have years of PT experience and can navigate around much quicker than I can in logic. I tried reason, didn't work for me cause of the lack of audio support, never got comfortable with the PT rewire thing. I tried PT sequencing, Hated it! anyway, that's my 2 cents, I work SOOO much quicker and efficiently now, don't miss zips at all....the one thing I miss is the 16 levels for pitch feature on the MPC which i used to use for melodic hits on the mpc, but it's a small sacrafice. I'm literally so pleased(after years of waiting) to finally see the day where I can do what I want to do with just a controller and a great computer, no hardware synths or MPC's

24th January 2006, 09:14 AM	#13
HGK Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3	@Johndough are you running a digi design approved computer? Your problem can be anything from service pack 1 to pace drivers to an incompatible firewire card. Feel free to post your specs or hit the digi duc for help pertaining to your issues.

24th January 2006, 11:52 AM	#14
johndough Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 128	Computer is definatley an issue. This is a new computer and its definatley been an issue. Its a athlon X2 4200. PT doesnt seem to like em... Thats another pain in the butt about this computer music thing.

24th January 2006, 06:37 PM	#16
Methlab Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 2,421	PhonoquO I do the exact same thing you do..Cubase, same Vstis..Battery..I love it. Is your sidechain method made using a quad bus? I use my kick as a key to duck the bass..does the bass have to be in stereo for this setup? I have it in mono..it seems to work fine, but just checking...it would be cool to see your flash on it..because it can be a bit confusing to setup sidechaining.

25th January 2006, 10:41 PM	#18
halfguard Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: south fla Posts: 1,007	ok, all this talk has got me wondering what im missing. if you had to pick one, cubase or logic wich would it be? are both of their groove templates right on?

26th January 2006, 08:42 PM	#20
TWC Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 189	off topic, but I cracked up when I saw this as Eager2Know's image: Thats Bubbles from the Trailer Park Boys.. funniest show on TV. now go download it. He was actually part of this band sandbox and worked as an audio engineer before doing the show. listen to this song.. hilarious: Bubbles - Liquor and *****s

27th January 2006, 04:30 AM	#21
halfguard Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: south fla Posts: 1,007	tony to be honest, i always wanted to use logic. however, when i got back in the game, i couldnt afford the mac /logic/the interface etc....so i went pc and got the 002rack. my pc is pretty powerful, so i cant complain. im actually glad i got the pc becuase if not id have a single g4 right now and id really be complaing. im going to look into cubase more. i wish they had a demo. i dont think now is the best time to buy a new mac. funny thing is, i just got a new imac g5 for the home computer. right before the intelmac was released .....i know thats not really powerful enough to run logic in the way i would like.