Are the days of 3rd party instrument plug ins coming to an end
KevWest
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#31
5th November 2010
Old 5th November 2010
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RasCricket View Post
Ok - am I the only guy here who really likes when people stipulate VSTs and VSTi's apart from each other? ~ Thats my first question/thought
My only thoughts were really on instruments. FX will always be a preference based on what sound the individual is looking for imo. Not everyone needs high end fx plugs or high end fx hardware and some do. I choose to do all of my mixing in Record because I have more experience with those fx than anything else. I also tried to steer the convo to instruments because quite honestly I am totally ignorant to most fx plug ins outt here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RasCricket View Post
Second, Kev, are you saying that some DAW's now feature VSTi's that rival sounds from Kontact? Thats pretty much what im reading.
Ive posted this at a few different forums and I think thats how a lot of people read it so don't feel alone there. What I am saying is that at what point is sounding good good enough? Its not like people are selling their Motif ES because the XF just came out or even selling all of their hardware because the software stuff is out and it does for the most part sound a lot better than the hardware stuff as far as workstations are concerned. If I started today and I bought a macbook and Logic and I was making really good music and I really liked the sound that I was getting from Logic with its stock stuff why would I even look into the better libraries? Thats kind of what I am getting at. As DAWs come prepackaged with better and better sound banks and as more and more people start making music and know nothing about the 3rd party stuff do you think it will impact the imprint of 3rd party plugs? I am a Reason user because I know it better than anything else and I have more sounds for it than anything else and I don't really feel the need for anything else because the sounds in i sound good to me. I know there are way better tools out there but I like what I have in Reason so why switch if I am happy where I am at? I know I am not the only person who thinks this way. Its not a matter of out performing Kontakt (which imo may be the best workstation on the market hardware or software) its about how much does one need until one is satisfied? Also its about what unique tools are there really out there? Everything I see seems to be remixes of the same kind of stuff with differing sound quality be it good, bad or subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RasCricket View Post
Its interesting to me that no one has addressed this - if you read the thread back, some people are talking about VST's and some are talking about VSTi's - i.e. "sounds".
Ive noticed. I dont think people really see the difference between vst or vsti and kind of lump them all into vst

Quote:
Originally Posted by RasCricket View Post
Remember why you asked that guy why he needed em, Kev? Thats why. See, you and I use Reason. We're blessed with B+ sounds right out of the box. We dont really need to jump too far into VSTi land ~ Generic and low budget VSTi's that come with any DAW ive ever known of sound C grade. To me, FL Studio has C grade sounds out of the box. In contrast, a pro VSTi like Kontact sounds A grade out of the box, basically.
I agree (well I wouldnt give FL studio a C grade you are being nice Id think closer to a D. But again if you like the B grade sounds is it really a need to most to make the jump to A grade. I think a lot of people would say no and would pick features and ease of use over the A grade sound if it wasn't easier to use. Thats why there are people using Fantoms and Motifs over something like Kontakt (Particularly the Fantom X which imo has a B grade sound and the G doesnt sound much better and a lot of people did not make the jump)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RasCricket View Post
**As a serious Reason user I can say to everyone here, though its true to a point, who think that Kontact has vastly better sounds than Reason that, this opinion is not completely true. The first area Kontact excels over Reason sounds is Brass/Horns. And its all about "aftertouch articulations", people. Kontact sounds, like the brass/horns ones, have awesome articulations programmed in. Heck, watch a demo on YouTube for a Kontact Electric Guitar - the articulations like string slides, finger-tapping, palm mutes, etc are fuggin mind blowing. That truly sets Kontact apart from sounds in Reason. It took me awhile to see just what instruments were quite superior in Kontact from Reason - and "articulations" is basically the main factor.

So, NOW we can talk about VST's for a second. I know Sequoia, for example, has a rather incredible (reputation wise) set of its own VST's (effects) that may negate the use of many other 3rd party VST's plug-ins. Audition 3.0 also has quite a few tools and plug-ins that truly disgrace Waves' efforts for even trying to make a similar tool/plug and put a price tag on it. (I could seriously name a few).
That said, yes, some DAW's are totally featuring tools/plugs/"VST's" that are shaming some plug-ins that are available for a lot of $$$.

I blame coffee
I agree the articulations are what are setting the instruments apart and a lot of Reason refills (electric bass and Soul School for example) are adding them to their NNXT banks for that reason.
#32
5th November 2010
Old 5th November 2010
  #32
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Quote:
I agree the articulations are what are setting the instruments apart and a lot of Reason refills (electric bass and Soul School for example) are adding them to their NNXT banks for that reason.
Reason's NNXT sampler is not built to handle "articulations/keyswitching"...

no disrepect... but it seems like you do not understand the technology...

here is an example of "keyswitching/articulation"...



Reason's NNXT would need a "complete" overhaul for "keyswitching/articulations"....
#33
6th November 2010
Old 6th November 2010
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
Reason's NNXT sampler is not built to handle "articulations/keyswitching"...

no disrepect... but it seems like you do not understand the technology...

here is an example of "keyswitching/articulation"...

Reason's NNXT would need a "complete" overhaul for "keyswitching/articulations"....
Yyyup. Its very much the next big thing for Reason to implement. Unless Propellerhead wants them to stay B+ grade.

I still say the drums and organs are A grade. Especially the drums from their 2.0 ReFill. The special Piano ReFill is also hard to diss. You do have to realize that in Reason, youre really only a few steps away from taking any "good" sound and making it a "great" sound. Short of articulations, youre pretty much left with EQ'ing your way to a good sounding instrument, which in 2010 isnt too hard. Thats said, for bass or synth or just about any sound in Reason, if its not good enough at the start, its not hard nor does it take much to put it on the next level - the tools for that are indeed there. Just, like we said, no articulations.
#34
6th November 2010
Old 6th November 2010
  #34
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RasCricket View Post
Yyyup. Its very much the next big thing for Reason to implement. Unless Propellerhead wants them to stay B+ grade.

I still say the drums and organs are A grade. Especially the drums from their 2.0 ReFill. The special Piano ReFill is also hard to diss. You do have to realize that in Reason, youre really only a few steps away from taking any "good" sound and making it a "great" sound. Short of articulations, youre pretty much left with EQ'ing your way to a good sounding instrument, which in 2010 isnt too hard. Thats said, for bass or synth or just about any sound in Reason, if its not good enough at the start, its not hard nor does it take much to put it on the next level - the tools for that are indeed there. Just, like we said, no articulations.
i was hoping that Props was going to add a disk streaming sampler in Reason 5... until then there will be "no" keyswitching/articulations... what "i" find is that the "presets" in omnisphere, trilian, kontakt, east/west play start an individual in a better place than the "presets" in Reason... with Reason an individual spends more time with the sound of a patch (tweaking) instead of the actual "music"... the constant tweaking in Reason "kills" the workflow...
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