Mixing Urban/Rap/R&B/HipHop Different From Other Styles Of Music?

[tekn0]

Hello, Great Forum i have been a reader for about 1/2 a year and this is my first post .

I have been searching for the answer to this question for a while now, and i have not been able to get a solid answer. I thought this would be the place to ask considering a few users here have mixed pro urban music before. I have watched and red as much info as i can on mixing from the Waves Books and The Mixing Handbook to "Mix it like a record" and other DVD's but i still have not recived a clear answer to my question e.

Anyway my question is this "Do urban mixers approach a mix the same as non urban mixers?", as in are the same types of eq/compression/buss effects used as would be used with live drums and live instruments. Since most sounds are premixed from keyboards or pre mastered from samples i was wondering if there were other methods used when approaching a mix done with more samples/keyboards insted of live drums and live instruments and elements.

I would assume the vocal methods are kinda of the same but i mostly wondering about the mixing methods for sample based instrumentals and beats.

Thanks for your time

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by tekn0

I would assume the vocal methods are kinda of the same but i mostly wondering about the mixing methods for sample based instrumentals and beats.

Thanks for your time

The answer is yes.

Same techniques...just different applications.

I mix in both genres and can tell you that many times these days i can leave up some signal chains that were used to mix a rock song(and do) and i can load up a hiphop track and use exactly the same thing( i do it everyday).

The biggest adjustments these days comes in how much gates i am using.

Since most hiphop are samples and they've been treated i don't have to gate out extraneous noises as much.

Everything else is the same...Eq's,compression,effects,mults and splits etc.


To be honest if you can really engineer, if you can can feel the artists/producers vibe and you can tune into their vision, you could easily mix any kind of music no matter what the genre.

I think most guys hangups are not being able to tap one of the three.

Either they are all technical and no vibe or vision(lots of the modern engineers).

All vibe and no technical understanding(lots of producers).

Or all vision and lots of talk(these make the best managers or the guys who got in the business to sleep with the chicks).

My 2 cents.

[filterayok]

when mixing samples, drums and otherwise, in hiphop, i always remember this---whoever did the track, LIKED that kik drum---and they may have copped it from a dre record, or somewhere else where it was treated---so don't go putting loads of shit all over the samples, unless you can explain to yourself WHY your doing it----i think in hiphop you gotta be careful not to OVERmix-----in a celine dion record, fine, you can paint a picture with the mix, bring her vocal out with delays and reverbs, and aural exciters, and pan the shit out of everything, but with hiphop, a SIMPLE approach is better---the artist is saying some crazy shit, so make it CLEAR and concise, without too much high end....you gotta be careful that the mix doesn't DISTRACT from what was originally appealing about the track----all about the vibe baby, and of course every track calls for different shit

[Igotsoul4u]

i would say, yeah the gear is the same way, but the sounds are so different. Dynamics are way easier to deal with because there is just less musical content. Loops are totally predictable. Samples are often already compressed and eq'ed so you can just throw up the fader. I don't think that it makes it less of a musical statement, its just sonically simpler. The overall mixing style has a different sound. If you put a kick in a rock song up as loud as you do in a hip hop track, it wll sound wrong. I'm totally buzzed and not writing well, but I do feel that each kind of music requires different attention and while alot of tools are the same, the end result is competely different.

[tekn0]

Thies are alot of the things i have been thinking about, like when it comes to eq, i would think eq's main use is to bring out frequencies that need to be boosted and since alot of the samples are pre ed'ed, that would require much less eq on the each track. Also with compression when used "not" as an effect i understand a main use is to tame peeks and even out a performance volume and or attack wise, but if it's a sequenced track done vi midi and all the peeks have been tamed and the performance has been balanced with velocity settings during sequencing, then i would assume less compression is needed unless it's being used as an effect.

Im sure that mix buss methods are the same also, assuming more urban production is being done "In The Box" (Sorry for the lame buzz term e)
with analog emulation/saturation and more standard mixbuss compression.

My main question is the use of reverb , i know kinda of the golden rule i like to go by is if i can hear any effect to a point , then im not using it correctly. It seems like when i study instrumentals i can hear hints of gated reverb but im not sure how or where they are using it. Somthing tells me it's more small spaces except on strings where i think halls still apply, but i just wonder, if i have a drum kit where each piece came from a different place meaning, 2 from old records and 3 from keyboards, would i want to send them to reverbs and keep them in the same space or let each have it's own vibe, and when it comes to the sample like the main lead sample, how are mixers treating them, meaning are you treating the main samples like an instrument and eq'ing and compressing to tame peeks and level up the volume?, or as elements and just leaving them be and kind of working the rest of the tracks around the main sample?

I know the simple answer is trust your ears and if it sounds good do it. but thats not the answer im looking for, im kind of trying to find more standard pratices and maybe even "Secret" methods to get my mixes up to par.

Thanks again for your time.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by tekn0

Thies are alot of the things i have been thinking about, like when it comes to eq, i would think eq's main use is to bring out frequencies that need to be boosted and since alot of the samples are pre ed'ed, that would require much less eq on the each track. Also with compression when used "not" as an effect i understand a main use is to tame peeks and even out a performance volume and or attack wise, but if it's a sequenced track done vi midi and all the peeks have been tamed and the performance has been balanced with velocity settings during sequencing, then i would assume less compression is needed unless it's being used as an effect.

Im sure that mix buss methods are the same also, assuming more urban production is being done "In The Box" (Sorry for the lame buzz term e)
with analog emulation/saturation and more standard mixbuss compression.

My main question is the use of reverb , i know kinda of the golden rule i like to go by is if i can hear any effect to a point , then im not using it correctly. It seems like when i study instrumentals i can hear hints of gated reverb but im not sure how or where they are using it. Somthing tells me it's more small spaces except on strings where i think halls still apply, but i just wonder, if i have a drum kit where each piece came from a different place meaning, 2 from old records and 3 from keyboards, would i want to send them to reverbs and keep them in the same space or let each have it's own vibe, and when it comes to the sample like the main lead sample, how are mixers treating them, meaning are you treating the main samples like an instrument and eq'ing and compressing to tame peeks and level up the volume?, or as elements and just leaving them be and kind of working the rest of the tracks around the main sample?

I know the simple answer is trust your ears and if it sounds good do it. but thats not the answer im looking for, im kind of trying to find more standard pratices and maybe even "Secret" methods to get my mixes up to par.

Thanks again for your time.

Personally i always and i mean always when mixing:


1) Re EQ samples

2) Re compress samples

Sometimes its over the top and sometimes its a subtle thing.

I don't care where it came from or how it was tracked.

Remember the goal is to paint a picture as a whole but also to make it seem larger than life and dynamic.

My goal is for people to feel justified that it was worth their while to spend their hard earned cash on this CD.

If they feel they can do it themselves than i didn't do my job.

This goes back to the "whatever it takes" rule.

To your other question about making samples from different sources fit together the answer is yes and yes.


This is where mixing on an analog console helps and i feel mixing on a DAW is lacking.

The sound of the console can help bring the mix together as a whole.

Also if the samples were tracked through something like a Digi 001 right of the keyboard, you can use the console to toughen up the samples.

[tekn0]

How do you feel that Analog/Tape Simulation Plugins hold up to true analog gear?

I would guess that it's never the same as each piece has it's own sound, but do you think plugins sound good?

Would i be better off summing to a outboard Dangerous 2 buss or Fatso Sumulator, or does the Mcdsp Analog Channel And Cranesong Phoenix Stand up?

Also when compressing would you go for the same type of compressors for the same type of job? Like would you still run a sampled snare though a dbx? or a sampled acoustic guitar though a pultec eq?

And on a side note how much reverb do you use when mixing urban music?just wondering on personal pref's, and do you notice your self using alot of split harmonizing to fatten up sounds? or are samples fat enough?

My Setup is Pro Tools HD1 (Just core card) On WinXP

[Lawrence]

The only difference for me with hip-hop vs. some other genres is the bass content. Other than that and a lot less reverb I mix them much the same way.

The key to a great hip-hop mix (generally) is a really tight bass & low freqency content. Every mix engineer adds a little of his own "stlye" to a mix even if it's subtle. Personally I often cut the areas around 200hz so that the other bass freq's will thump without causing problems. Any mix needs tight bass but there is so much more in this genre it has to be more actively controlled. When it's done right it's beautiful.

The other stuff is generally the same, good balanced mids, smooth highs and proper balances for the statement that's being made.

As someone stated earlier due to the music often being pretty repetitive it's often easier (for me at least) to mix hip-hop than a dense R&B track with lots of dynamics and musical changes. Most of the time I spend is working on vocals and bass.

Lawrence

[tekn0]

Do you notice yourself using alot of effects such as delays or other more aggressive effects?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by tekn0

How do you feel that Analog/Tape Simulation Plugins hold up to true analog gear?

I don't honestly.

I've been called an analog snob before but this is one place where i wouldn't even touch the plug.

Heck i even thought the Hedd tape simulation was a waste of time.

I haven't tried the Fatso yet but i am looking forward to it in the coming weeks.

Originally Posted by tekn0

I would guess that it's never the same as each piece has it's own sound, but do you think plugins sound good?

Yes.

I still use a couple that i really like.

But for the important instruments(kick,snare,bass and lead vocals) i only use analog outboard.

Originally Posted by tekn0

Would i be better off summing to a outboard Dangerous 2 buss or Fatso Sumulator, or does the Mcdsp Analog Channel And Cranesong Phoenix Stand up?

I think only you can answer this one.

I feel the whole summing issue is a little overated.

Summing in a mix contributes to about 3% to me.

For me it only comes to mind if i am mixing a song with a ton of instruments(over 120 tracks).

Originally Posted by tekn0

Also when compressing would you go for the same type of compressors for the same type of job? Like would you still run a sampled snare though a dbx? or a sampled acoustic guitar though a pultec eq?

Yes absolutely.

Same chains.

Usually what changes the most are the EQ settings.

Sometimes they are the same and its just slightly adjusting a compressor.

Originally Posted by tekn0

And on a side note how much reverb do you use when mixing urban music?just wondering on personal pref's, and do you notice your self using alot of split harmonizing to fatten up sounds? or are samples fat enough?

My Setup is Pro Tools HD1 (Just core card) On WinXP

My personal sound uses a lot of effects.

I own over 50 effect boxes.

Do i use them all?

Not all of them but i do use a lot.

I prefer the urban sound of the late 80's-till mid 90's.

To me it was the height of urban mixing.

It was tight and clear, yet deep and wide.

I try incorporate some of that with the real "in your face sound" of today.

Basically i try to give the tracks my own spin.

That way it sets me apart.

Now is it right for everyone?

Nope.

But that's what i like and my clients seem to like it also(or so they tell me).

Eventually you are going to have to define your own spin on things.

[tekn0]

Thanks alot for your time

[Justice]

Its from my artist its a remix I did and mixed let me know what you think..

www.suburban-ent.com

Jus