How much technical engineering info does a hip hop producer need?

[BOO BLADES]

i ask this question cuz after reading posts in this forum im under the impression most people have some type of technical training...i wouldnt know what frequencies to cut to get a desired effect on an eq and i wouldnt know which ratios to use on compression...all i want to do is track hot ass vocals and make banging ass beats but if im worried about 2 sounds overlapping in the same frequency range and phasing and all that other stuff i read about on here...then it may stifle my creativity cuz i just wanna put together the sounds in my head...i already tried going gung-ho and ignoring stuff like that but my mix engineer told me i needed to pick better sounds and do some designing (or something to that effect)...i produce mainly with a triton but if u fellas know of a book or some other medium i can use to get a rudimentary education on sounds,frequencies,stereo imagining,dynamic sound shaping and whatever else i need to become a more informed producer...then i welcome your input...keep in mind i dont wanna get so bogged down with techie stuff that it inhibits my creativity...peace


www.myspace.com/booblades
www.brainwaverecords.com

[Dor]

tweak the knobs until it sounds good.

[BOO BLADES]

Originally Posted by Dor

tweak the knobs until it sounds good.

yeah but im afraid of adding too much compression before i take it to my mix engineer cuz then he cant undo it...the if i track it dry...i gotta sit with him till "he" turns the knows til it sounds right...decisions...decisions



www.mysapce.com/booblades

[7ciel]

I guess, make sure you have a good monitoring system (room + gear). Take any book or internet website you might feel well written in order to learn the basics of EQ, compression, expansion....

And then, train your ear, maybe by listening to some CD you like and compare some aspect of it with the music you do.

The main thing is you have to understand quite deeply how one sound process affect what you ear, so you can communicate better with your sound engineer, instead of having to talk about something you want for hours before it actually happens in what you ear.

[XHipHop]

I do both hiphop and indie rock and hiphop has been a much harder genre for me as far as getting my mixing and tracking techniques correct.

With rock, i feel, the "standard way" to record most instruments and most situations has already been discovered years ago and is tried and true practice. (i know there are millions of exceptions to this but, there are way too many people putting a sm57 on a snare through an api preamp...)

Hiphop techniques are often more guarded and secretive or, in some cases, less talked about because hiphop wasn't considered "real music" for awhile, so the rules haven't really been written.

Technical training is VERY beneficial, i believe. But with the internet and the access to so many great minds on forums like this (so many top engineers post here), you can start to train yourself.

Really get to know your gear, room, and your ears...these are the tools you have to work with and master. Use other people's techniques, learn your own...do what sounds best.

It's all a learning experience...even the top engineers on here have said that they STILL learn something new everyday.


And as far as your concern for the technical issues getting in the way of your creative ones...you COULD look at it that way. Or you could say that these techniques you learn, once put to use, will help ENHANCE your creativity and just be another tool for you.



I'm done with my rant.

Sorry, i just drove like 4 hours for christmas eve dinner so I guess i feel like rambling and being philosophical...but 99% of the time this is not something that will just come to you. These are skills and techniques that you must practice and sharpent constantly to get to the top of the game and stay there.

[Disco D]

the more engineering skills you have as a producer the better. I try to engineer and mix all my own productions as much as possible. I definitely feel I have a better control over my sound and thus the final product is as close to my vision as possible. Also don't be afraid of compression.

[Disco D]

I never had any formal training by the way - but I have been using Pro Tools for 5 years now so it takes a while to get it right.

[con?one]

The more you know, the better. With that being said, there are dudes who can't even save their sequences who've done classic records.
There are a few good books out there, but on the real, you're better off reading Mix, EQ and other magazines that cover gear, technique, etc.
The closest thing I had to formal training was spending way too much time at power play and d&d as a kid.

[filterayok]

i say just listen to records and A/B your sounds, vocal sounds, drums, frequencies, with hit records----if your A/Bing to something, then your mix is at least gonna be in the ballpark, you know....you say you don't know frequencies?? then put a filter on a track with a really tight bandwidth and raise the gain and sweep thru all the frequencies...over time you'll get to become familiar with the sound of "too much 200-300hz, " or the 5k range...or put up a compressor and slowly bring the threshold down and the ratio up, and listen to how it effects the sound... as it begins to compress you may say, "wow my vocal sounds a lot tighter" and then as you compress more, you may say "wow my vocal sounds like its 'pumping'"---thats obviously not good---and ALWAYS hve another record with you to reference so you never lose sight of what "good" is....i mean how far off is your mix gonna be if it at least RESEMBLES a professional mix...

[BOO BLADES]

Hey fellas...Happy Holidays and thanx for the help...i've been messing with the eq trying to figure out what it what and when freqs are isolated i seem to have a grip on whats going on...but as soon as i throw everything back in...im lost again...its aiight though...i guess i just have to wait till a i gain a bit more experience...in the meanwhile gotta keep pumping out those tracks no matter if the freqs overlap or not...what i really need is a sub though so i can hear whats going on down below...if i get my bass and kick relationship right then my mix engineer can worry about sorting out the rest of the top...what do u guys think aobut the se-1?...it just has bass sounds not drums right?...peace


www.myspace.com/booblades

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by BOO BLADES

Hey fellas...Happy Holidays and thanx for the help...i've been messing with the eq trying to figure out what it what and when freqs are isolated i seem to have a grip on whats going on...but as soon as i throw everything back in...im lost again...its aiight though...i guess i just have to wait till a i gain a bit more experience...in the meanwhile gotta keep pumping out those tracks no matter if the freqs overlap or not...what i really need is a sub though so i can hear whats going on down below...if i get my bass and kick relationship right then my mix engineer can worry about sorting out the rest of the top...what do u guys think aobut the se-1?...it just has bass sounds not drums right?...peace


www.myspace.com/booblades

your mix engineer is probably better suited to sort out the low-end stuff than you are...low end is the number 1 problem in home recordings...adding a sub is just gonna throw more confusion on your frequency mess

[BOO BLADES]

Originally Posted by azwun25

your mix engineer is probably better suited to sort out the low-end stuff than you are...low end is the number 1 problem in home recordings...adding a sub is just gonna throw more confusion on your frequency mess

i thought about the whole sub thing but if i can produce the track and have it damn near where i want it from the beginning then thats less time spent in the major studio trying to fix poor sound choices...for instance...i didnt know u couldnt put just ANY KICK you wanted with sub basses...u have to find a smaller kick or puchier kick that will sit on top of it and poke thru the mix...or get that same small kick and put an 808 or sub tail on it...i did my entire album on a triton with 824's for monitoring...the mackies let u hear nice low frequency...but not the sub frequencies u need to hear if u even chose the right bass sounds in the first place...them speakers are soooo flattering...but nonetheless...thanx for the input.

www.myspace.com/booblades

[illynoise]

What up BooBlades? I was just listening to your stuff on Mspace. Get rid of the Triton. That's my advise. Tritons are:

1. Noisy
2. Played out
3. Not worth the money
4. did I say played out?

Seriously, not trying to hate, I think you did some good ish with it. You would benefit from some other equipment, if I get you right and that's your main piece.

I would mess with a FantomX or Rack or a Motif, or go Virtual. Plugsounds, Native Instruments, stuff like that. I think that keyboard is very limiting and even though I could've bought it at least 4 times, I passed for a Motif, MoPhatt, and a FantomS.

Sell it. Get something that has some lowend. BTW for what it's worth, your quality sounded pretty nice to me.

BaseJase
Illynoise

[Disco D]

the mackies are actually very accurate pretty low, but your room's acoustics have to be spot on. I monitor on mackies with no sub in my studio in BK. Invest in a better room and better acoustical treatment before a sub.

[con?one]

i have a sub, but i don't mix on it... the main reason i have it is actually for replaying filtered bass lines (let's me hear it alot better).
i also use it when i'm trying to gas someone about a track. other than that, subs are wack

[KBOY]

I like your tracks as well. Much cooler than some of the stuff I hear here. I like your choices of sounds. The biggest thing that bugged me a bit is the verb used. Either too hot or too cheap. There is no reason a good mix guy couldn't make that just a little fatter. The tracks are there though to me.

[BOO BLADES]

Originally Posted by Disco D

the mackies are actually very accurate pretty low, but your room's acoustics have to be spot on. I monitor on mackies with no sub in my studio in BK. Invest in a better room and better acoustical treatment before a sub.

yeah i can hear the bottom in the mackies when i walk away but not up close...i think someone on here said that they arent nearfields anyway

[BOO BLADES]

Originally Posted by illynoise

What up BooBlades? I was just listening to your stuff on Mspace. Get rid of the Triton. That's my advise. Tritons are:

1. Noisy
2. Played out
3. Not worth the money
4. did I say played out?

Seriously, not trying to hate, I think you did some good ish with it. You would benefit from some other equipment, if I get you right and that's your main piece.

I would mess with a FantomX or Rack or a Motif, or go Virtual. Plugsounds, Native Instruments, stuff like that. I think that keyboard is very limiting and even though I could've bought it at least 4 times, I passed for a Motif, MoPhatt, and a FantomS.

Sell it. Get something that has some lowend. BTW for what it's worth, your quality sounded pretty nice to me.

BaseJase
Illynoise

Damn playboy...u kinda hard on my lil silver moneymaker (triton)...i feel u though...it is kind of played out so im definitely gonna get another sound module...maybe the motif and an se-1...the other sounds i'll just sample or get from the pc...i produce in a pretty small room so i think im gonna have to get some different type of monitors so i can really hear whats going on...i appreciate everyone taking the time to check the music and provide feedback...i have a feeling this site is gonna help me create more solid releases in the future...now if we could only get the radio promotion and distribution aspects figured out?

www.myspace.com/booblades

[illynoise]

Yeah, I'm just not hot on that board. I have used it in the studio many times when people bring it in, but I can't ever get the sound that I'm used to out of it.

SE-1 is great for basses, but it's too much money for what you can probably get if you invested in a mac and logic 7.

BaseJase
illynoise

www.myspace.com/basejase
www.myspace.com/blackpegasus

[BOO BLADES]

Originally Posted by illynoise

Yeah, I'm just not hot on that board. I have used it in the studio many times when people bring it in, but I can't ever get the sound that I'm used to out of it.

SE-1 is great for basses, but it's too much money for what you can probably get if you invested in a mac and logic 7.

BaseJase
illynoise

www.myspace.com/basejase
www.myspace.com/blackpegasus

my man i cant **** with that logic program right now...i done went thru all that transferring files to protools from other programs and the best thing i can do is just get p.t. and stay in p.t. from the start...i know there are other modules that are also good for bass and other sounds so i might look into that...plus i plan on getting some virtual sounds as well...thanx

www.booblades.com

[ERJ]

Originally Posted by BOO BLADES

i ask this question cuz after reading posts in this forum im under the impression most people have some type of technical training...i wouldnt know what frequencies to cut to get a desired effect on an eq and i wouldnt know which ratios to use on compression...all i want to do is track hot ass vocals and make banging ass beats but if im worried about 2 sounds overlapping in the same frequency range and phasing and all that other stuff i read about on here...then it may stifle my creativity cuz i just wanna put together the sounds in my head...i already tried going gung-ho and ignoring stuff like that but my mix engineer told me i needed to pick better sounds and do some designing (or something to that effect)...i produce mainly with a triton but if u fellas know of a book or some other medium i can use to get a rudimentary education on sounds,frequencies,stereo imagining,dynamic sound shaping and whatever else i need to become a more informed producer...then i welcome your input...keep in mind i dont wanna get so bogged down with techie stuff that it inhibits my creativity...peace


www.myspace.com/booblades
www.brainwaverecords.com

When I started out in this business I had the same desire you did, but quickly I realized that in order to KEEP my career going I needed to know SOME of the technical side.

A hip hop producer should first of all know his music! Know all sorts of musical genres. Know artists like frank sinatra, shai, chakka, Biggie, Sarah Vaughn, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Elvis, Salsa, Dance, Techno, Reggae, Reggaeton (Spanish Reggae/ Dancehall), Etc... You must know your musical genres so you can delve into different genres at will in order to create phat tracks (this is ONLY my humble opinion).

A hip hop producer must know how create the music and therefore you need to learn some software and hardware programs. IE..Sony Acid, Fruity Loops, Akai MPC2000, etc.

A hip hop producer should also know the basics about compression and equalization. You need to know what gear achieves the sound you have in YOUR head. No one can be in your head but YOU! Therefore, you need to know the gear that best suits your needs and how to use. This doesn't mean you'll be the one pushing all the buttons, that's the engineers job BUT you need to know how to articulate to the engineer the sound you are trying to achieve and how you think best to achieve that sound. Sometimes you need to tell the engineer to compress the vocal 2:1 instead of 3:1 because 3:1 is just not doing it for you and if you want to achieve good PHAT vocals you better know your micpres and what they do to your sound.

Small things like the aforementioned will help develop you further into the producer you want to become and achieve the sound you hear in your head.

CHEERS!

[Rob G]

I'm coming in late but I say in answer to the post theme-As much as you can get!

Rob G..

[dirk]

Just stating the obvious:

If you don't have knowledge you can't use it.



Serendipity only goes so far.

[Disco D]

Now I will say this - books and classes and all of that are nice for learning the basics of how gear works, but I can say this - I feel like the fact that I was completely self taught with no formal training works in my advantage, as I think outside the box and differently than say a full sail graduate, and my shit sounds unique as a result. Classes aren't going to get you a sound.

[con?one]

I think it depends on your goals. Some people probably benefit from the full sails, IARs, etc... And if your main thing is mixing other people's records, then it might even make sense. As a producer, I constanly try to freak things in new ways anyway, and I feel that way with mixing too. Rules are wack. Now, I agree that the more knowlege you have, the better... But the closest thing I have to any audio school is hanging around other mix sessions coming up, reading plenty of magazines and LOTs of trian & error. I'd tell someone who wanted to go to school for this shit, that unless they plan on becomming a teacher, take that $, invest in equipment and then go intern somewhere if need be.

[BOO BLADES]

O.k...I think im getting the point here...but i hope any newbies to production read this thread b4 they embark on a project and try to release it commercially...especially if its self-financed cuz i spent a whole lot of cash on a project only to have to redo it (its my opinion that it doesnt sound right...everyone else seems to think its fine)...i think out of the box all the time but i think there are some guidelines that one must follow in order to get atleast professional results...one of the main things that i learned is that one must have a proper monitoring system and learn that system so that they will know how that sound will translate on other systems...i also learned as a producer that if u hear a sound in your head...u better turn knobs and slide faders till u get that sound instead of relying on ur engineer to do it later in the mix...im glad that there is a site such as G.S. cuz u can learn many ways to do the same thing so its just a matter of finding which way works for u and improving upon it till its suitable for ur purposes...i wanna thank all u guys for ur insite and reponses...i'll be back for more tutoring once we start re-recording vocals...peace


www.myspace.com/booblades

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Disco D

Now I will say this - books and classes and all of that are nice for learning the basics of how gear works, but I can say this - I feel like the fact that I was completely self taught with no formal training works in my advantage, as I think outside the box and differently than say a full sail graduate, and my shit sounds unique as a result. Classes aren't going to get you a sound.

Don't confuse engineering with production. Learning engineering is not "thinking in the box", it's learning engineering. It has nothing to do with "how unique your shit sounds".

How you choose to go out and innovate as a producer or songwriter is irrelevant to your learned technical skills.

Lawrence

[BOO BLADES]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Don't confuse engineering with production. Learning engineering is not "thinking in the box", it's learning engineering. It has nothing to do with "how unique your shit sounds".

How you choose to go out and innovate as a producer or songwriter is irrelevant to your learned technical skills.

Lawrence

yeah thats what i was saying...i know technical is different from creative but some times the things u create dont work out technically (if u get what i mean)...so a producer should have some knowledge of the technicals so that he can create sounds that work.


www.myspace.com/booblades

[adrianex]

I don't think knowing a little bit about engineering will hurt your creativity, but it may help you out to get a better understanding of what your mixing engineer is doing, plus it will get your music closer to how you have it in your mind (if that make sense)

[con?one]

nobody said you shouldn't know all you could possibly know