about the Roland MV-8800......

[windswept]

Hello, I'm new to the forum. Anybody here working with a Roland MV-8800? I’m thinking about picking one up, but I’m torn between that and the MPC 4000 (a common dilemma, from what I understand). The MV workflow definitely seems like it’d go well with my style. My main concerns are:

1… A lot of samplers sounds like crap when pitch bend and/or time stretch is employed. I’m after something that’s going to sound pristine when altered; exactly like the original sample, as far as fidelity goes. Does the MV-8800 handle this well?

2… How is the MV’s sound quality at 16/44.1 compared to MPC-4k’s 24/96? Does anyone find this to be a handicap or is it simply irrelevant?

3… I’ve read that the MV has a warmer, rounder overall sound compared to the MPC’s punchier, more brittle sound. I like some good analog warmth as much as the next guy (especially for rock music and such), but how does this fare in hip-hop production? Also, is this “warmth” the result of missing high end frequencies due to my previous question? (that is, 16/44.1 vs. 24/96)

Any advice/guidance is much appreciated, especially since properly auditioning these machines for a decent amount of time is almost impossible now that they’re both discontinued. I’m leaning towards the MV for several reasons… I just hope an updated model doesn’t come out right after I buy one! That would suck. Thanks for helping out.

Woody

[windswept]

bump

[Macaiah]

Originally Posted by windswept

Hello, I'm new to the forum. Anybody here working with a Roland MV-8800? I’m thinking about picking one up, but I’m torn between that and the MPC 4000 (a common dilemma, from what I understand). The MV workflow definitely seems like it’d go well with my style. My main concerns are:

1… A lot of samplers sounds like crap when pitch bend and/or time stretch is employed. I’m after something that’s going to sound pristine when altered; exactly like the original sample, as far as fidelity goes. Does the MV-8800 handle this well?

2… How is the MV’s sound quality at 16/44.1 compared to MPC-4k’s 24/96? Does anyone find this to be a handicap or is it simply irrelevant?

3… I’ve read that the MV has a warmer, rounder overall sound compared to the MPC’s punchier, more brittle sound. I like some good analog warmth as much as the next guy (especially for rock music and such), but how does this fare in hip-hop production? Also, is this “warmth” the result of missing high end frequencies due to my previous question? (that is, 16/44.1 vs. 24/96)

Any advice/guidance is much appreciated, especially since properly auditioning these machines for a decent amount of time is almost impossible now that they’re both discontinued. I’m leaning towards the MV for several reasons… I just hope an updated model doesn’t come out right after I buy one! That would suck. Thanks for helping out.

Woody

I've never used either of those units, but I am a long time owner of an MPC 2000XL. Timestretch is one of the things that the MPC excelled at, prior to the MPC 1000.

Sound quality is going to depend on many factors such as AD/DA converters, Audio Interface (if recording to computer), quality of cables, etc...

What kind of environment will you be implementing your sampler? If you just want a sampler...there are much cheaper alternatives out there. You could get an AKAI S5000 / S6000 for about 70% less than you would pay for either of those units.

No matter what though it will all come down to your personal preference...

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful but your idea of a good "sound" might no be the same as mine.

[windswept]

Thanks for the info! In response to your question, I will be implementing the unit into my home project studio. Currently, I record onto a Roland VS-2400, as I enjoy the "hands-on" touch of such multitrack units, but I'd prefer to do all my sampling and sequencing in a self-contained unit like the MV and transport it to the VS much later in the process. Incidentally, I also use some very nice-sounding outboard gear (Avalon 737 & 747, Fatso, Avedis MA5, Anamod 660, Bricasti M7), mics (421, U87, SM57) and synthesizers (Motif ES8, Moog Voyager, MicroKorg) so I really won't be utilizing any of the built-in MV features, regardless of whichever unit I decide on.... well, maybe I'll use some FX on my samples, but that's about it.

Quite simply, I absolutely love the idea of having a sampler, sequencer and mixer in one box; especially of such high quality. Presently, the only samplers I own are the Roland SP-202 and SP-404 and I know these are considered just about the lowest on the sampler totem pole, but they've always been perfect for my purposes - that is, simply having fun. Please bear in mind that samples have never factored into my style of musical composition before. However, I'm now getting more into hip-hop production (as opposed to rock, etc.) and I need a proper sampler; one that won't sound wretched when I change pitch or time; one whose controls and options are extensive and will allow me to shape sound in a way that's limited only by my own imagination.

Also, the only drum machine I have is an Alesis SR-16 and I'm thinking about getting a Boss DR-808, so either way a good sequencer will be essential - and I particularly like the employment of old school Roland drum machines in the MV. See, I don't mind spending the extra money if a piece of gear is reliable and will serve me well for many years. I know the MV learning curve is steep, but I'm prepared to dive right in and devote as much time as necessary to mastering this machine, in the event that I buy it. Judging by the countless hours of research I've done over the past several months, I definitely know I'd be right at home with an MV-8800... the only concerns are those listed in my original post. I guess you could say that those are the three "deal-breakers" I've narrowed it down to, in which case I would sacrifice set my sights on my runner-up: the MPC 4000.

[windswept]

So no one else knows the MV-8800 well enough to answer any of my questions? It would really help me out.

[BringItBack]

I used the MV-8000 for a while, not the MV-8800 but as I understand it there aren't many crucial differences.

The MV-8000, to me, is as close as you can get to a DAW and drum machine in the same box. The unit has a good, slightly warm but clean sound. I'll probably pick another one up one of these days. If you are decent at mixing ITB or on your Hard-disk recorder, you'll be able to make full-blown tracks with that unit alone. There aren't too many other drum machines that you could hook a preamp up to and have everything you need to complete a song.

It still uses 16-bit, but that doesn't hold the sound back. I do remember a small timing issue that arose with midi sequencing playing every blue moon - it was sometimes hard to place notes slightly off (intentionally) while playing (even with quantize off).

[Goa-Dubs]

MV has a massive clean sound.I did in the short time i had it,find it a little clunky.Mpc 4000 feels more fluid imo.But the sound is great.

[Caramel]

I use the 8000. Roland as company has always been at the forefront of developing technology. Pitch shifting and timestreching is something they have loads of experiance with. Remember the VP 9000 technology?. So they know the maths in time stretching.

As far as sound goes. i think that the MV probably uses the same converters from the VS series of digital recorders, which is pretty good.

The MV can sound clean and punchy as well as grungy depending on what you put in it. With the ability to record 8 tracks of linear audio as well as drum machine/ sampler style programming makes it a step ahead of the rest.

Don`t forget the VGA output for external screen. Pix Jam for visual synconisation at live shows. A good amont of effects and mastering tools built in + usb for backup and file handling. .... It`s a no brainer.

[windswept]

Thanks so much for all the helpful info… it really has been so useful. I think I’m about to pull the trigger on it. I’m a little curious about the “clunky” factor Goa-Dubs pointed out, as well as the quantize issue that BringItBack raised. Hopefully the benefits far outweigh these problems.

[Goa-Dubs]

Check out mv nation!!!there experts and theyll sort you out.good luck.

[Jake Gilla]

Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs

Check out mv nation!!!there experts and theyll sort you out.good luck.

Second that. NNitred, and DaMadMan are on point. Just do your best to ignore MCGee$.

MV 8000 user but...

1. Time stretch is pretty incredible, never had any problems with the sound of it.

2. Personally I think sound quality of a sampler is pretty irrelevant. I've never heard a bad sounding sampler, just bad sounding samples.

3. Same as two.

Only problem with the MV and why I dumped it after 3 years was load time. Doing everything in the MV means projects take for ever to load.

That being said, with the current price of the 8000 I'll probably pick one up again just for the sampler, since its so fast and powerful to work with.

[LAVLAB]

MV-8000 user here. It sounds like your already very familliar with Roland gear. Therefore, the MV may be a better choice to get up & going faster. That was 1 factor (among many) that sold me on the MV. Also, with the expansion card you get R-Bus to interface with your VS recorder.
And definitly check out www.MVNation.com Loads of info there, you'll find me there as well.

[Jake Gilla]

Originally Posted by LAVLAB

. Also, with the expansion card you get R-Bus to interface with your VS recorder.

If you can find one at a reasonable price. These things pop up about as often as Chupacabre.

[Refresh]

just go with mpc 4000 and save yourself the troubles of having to sell the mv later anyway when you come to the conclusion the mp4k kicks mv ass

[Goa-Dubs]

Originally Posted by Refresh

just go with mpc 4000 and save yourself the troubles of having to sell the mv later anyway when you come to the conclusion the mp4k kicks mv ass

What he said

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by windswept

Thanks so much for all the helpful info… it really has been so useful. I think I’m about to pull the trigger on it. I’m a little curious about the “clunky” factor Goa-Dubs pointed out, as well as the quantize issue that BringItBack raised. Hopefully the benefits far outweigh these problems.

Really,tired of hearing about quantization issues of the MV. It HAS NO QUANTIZING ISSUES, only "users who havn`t learned the machine" issues. The MV has a very sofisticated quantise section. It has percentage quantising ,which means whatever timing you select, you can dial in a percentage of that "SWING" as well as how accurate the quantising is. (You can set it that it is slighlty less accurate so that is has a more real feel.

Where I think most people get confused is that there are two places the quantise is set.

1. is when recording
2. is on the track itself on playback.

So, if you record with a shuffle but on playback, that tracks quantisation is set to straight. then it plays straight.So you have to make sure you either have both set on the same settings or just have one of them set to have no quantisation.
Seems complicated at first but it`s actually cool . Cause no matter how you recorded a beat, on playback you just adjust the parameters to suit the vibe you want.

Really guys ,the mistake that everyone makes is that they compare the MV with what they know about the MPC. It`s a differant aproach. MPCs are more straight forward. Not everone understands or likes the sofistication of the MV.
Don`t see why one has to kick anothers ass. Both are good for differant reasons. Personally I think the MV is a way smarter choice.

Please somebody tell RZA that the MPC kicks the MV`s ass. He doesn`t seem to think so.

[BringItBack]

Originally Posted by Caramel

Really,tired of hearing about quantization issues of the MV. It HAS NO QUANTIZING ISSUES, only "users who havn`t learned the machine" issues. The MV has a very sofisticated quantise section. It has percentage quantising ,which means whatever timing you select, you can dial in a percentage of that "SWING" as well as how accurate the quantising is. (You can set it that it is slighlty less accurate so that is has a more real feel.

Where I think most people get confused is that there are two places the quantise is set.

1. is when recording
2. is on the track itself on playback.

So, if you record with a shuffle but on playback, that tracks quantisation is set to straight. then it plays straight.So you have to make sure you either have both set on the same settings or just have one of them set to have no quantisation.

Haven't used an MV in a while, can you turn quantization off completely both
1) while recording and
2) on the track you've recorded to?

That was the only prob I experienced (Aside from the perpetually unavailable expansion that I game-planned for when purchasing). Might get another one soon...

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by BringItBack

Haven't used an MV in a while, can you turn quantization off completely both
1) while recording and
2) on the track you've recorded to?

That was the only prob I experienced (Aside from the perpetually unavailable expansion that I game-planned for when purchasing). Might get another one soon...

Sure can. Confused me too at first. But the quantise sections are VERY tunable.

[Mannas]

Originally Posted by Caramel

the mistake that everyone makes is that they compare the MV with what they know about the MPC. It`s a differant aproach. MPCs are more straight forward. Not everone understands or likes the sofistication of the MV.

This is VERY true. You have to see it for what it is. If you look at it expecting it to be an MPC you're gonna be disappointed. The same is true with Maschine.

[Caramel]

The MV can pretty much do what the MPC does and MUCH more.
The MPC can NOT do what the MV does and more. .. If you get my drift.

If you use your ingenuity you can make it sound like an old 12 bit sampler. (CLUE : It`s not the sample rate converter in the effects section.) I discovered a way to make my samples sound old school and haven`t come across anyone else that is doing it.
Can you guess? In the manual it is discribed as a feature for a differant use.

[MoBeach]

I haven't had the time to use mine so I'm putting it on the market soon, with a Gator case. MvNation has lots of info on these machines.

[s12512]

Originally Posted by Caramel

The MV can pretty much do what the MPC does and MUCH more.
The MPC can NOT do what the MV does and more. .. If you get my drift.

If you use your ingenuity you can make it sound like an old 12 bit sampler. (CLUE : It`s not the sample rate converter in the effects section.) I discovered a way to make my samples sound old school and haven`t come across anyone else that is doing it.
Can you guess? In the manual it is discribed as a feature for a differant use.

is it the analog knob on that 1 window? never read a manual. just think that mite b it

[BringItBack]

Originally Posted by Caramel

Sure can. Confused me too at first. But the quantise sections are VERY tunable.

Thanks, I'll have to investigate once again...

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by s12512

is it the analog knob on that 1 window? never read a manual. just think that mite b it

Good guess ,but no, it`s not. Though that analog knob IS a very cool funtion do add to keyboard and guitar tracks to give it the sound of tape "wow and flutter" does make it sound less digital.

explore and you may see.

The MV has so much, that I haven`t checked out a whole lot of it`s funtions.

I`ve used the automated mix funtions once for a soundtrack for a TV promotion for Captain Morgan Rum. With sound efx , live instraments, Sync to picture . Don`t think I could`ve done all that on the MPC.

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by Azriel_7

Why?
Simply depends on which MPC you are talking about.tutt

Cause I had 8 tracks of live vocals, congas, various african drums and percussion and I could deal with them on a color VGA screen and mouse. The only reason I did this was an exercise to see if I COULD deal with the style of production usually done on a computer not a drum machine type machine. And it workrd fine.

Don`t think I would`ve bothered in a MPC with a little screen.

[Caramel]

*Mixer controls the Partials, Instruments and Phrases instead of the Tracks.


You have to upgrade the software from the Roland site to be abled to mix the audio tracks as well as having EQ an all audio , phrase and instrament tracks as well as EFX sends, returns. I don`t always use the effects , But I find 2 effects send and on insert enough for what I need. I Have no problem resampling with effects. It IS a SAMPLER and I think of myself as a practioner of the art of sampling. I`ve never let 1 midi in /out/thru port stop me from anything. Just chain 1 or more units using midi thru and use different midi channels. I`ve never had to use all 16 channels of midi on every sound module or synth ever.

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by Azriel_7

You're not understanding what I'm talking about.
If you have say 24 Tracks in your Song or Pattern you would like to go to your mixer screen and have 24 Faders that match those tracks.
The way Roland did it, the mixer is one size and controls the 16 PARTs etc so if you use a PART on different Tracks when you adjust the Mixer it will effect every instance of that PART.
This is also a place where the lack of 16 levels of Pitch affects things.
If you want to multipitch a particular sample it has to eat a PART, either by you creating the additional pitches or making it an Instrument.
I use to just throw different pitches inside of drum kits but then it gets caught in the Global Mixer for that PART.

Resampling should be a desired process not a workaround.
I don't want to have to go back and resample something that I resampled because the printed Effect is obstructing the balance later.

The lack of MIDI out/thru has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
I'm referring to needing to send a clock info from the DAW, Drum Pads Triggers and a keyboard notes to the single MIDI input on the MV.
Nothing fun about having 1 MIDI input.

I got the MV to go back to working with a box with limitations and pushing it to the limit.Especially for Hip Hop. Because I was yearning for the HIP HOP aesthetic of working with a beat-machine and making beats. I seldom or never need 24 tracks of anything. And Maybe I use 1 external module. The point was NOT to use triggers or any other external devices. I don`t even use the VGA, on purpose.

So for the most part making sampled based beats, it fullfills my needs and if I Must do any extras on it I can .

[MoBeach]

What does the MPC 5000 have for synth samples? And what is Akai's experience with synths that would make their samples better than Roland?

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by Azriel_7

You do understand that really has nothing to do with the shortfalls of the MV I pointed out?
Just because you find the problems inspiring doesn't change the fact that they exist.
Kinda funny because you originally made this statement

which is far from true.
I just felt the OP should be aware of the points the MV falls short on.

Maybe what you consider falling short I don`t.

*Cause I have the Optional expansion .
*Never had corrupted files.
*Don`t need extra midi.
*Find the quantising to be very much abled to "swing" to my liking, be it in a slighlty different way.
*I`ve never had a problem with the sliders being short.
* I don`t have CF cards cause I have USB and CD storage and backup beside the internal harddrive.
*If you are used to MPC you may miss the 16 level pitch. If you`ve never used the MPC before, .....

so you may not like certain lack of AKAI features on a Roland machine. But that does not make them problems. It makes it a different machine with different features.

I`m sure you would not say that the MPC has a problem because it doesn`t have PIX JAM or Roland sound sets.

[s12512]

the mv rocks!