How do you give your music an identity??

[Realziment]

So funny egough, I had a meeting with a huge music manager last week, nothing important its just he is from my hometown and I know hm trough a cousin and some friends, and he was in LA so i met him for coffee for advice etc, so to cut a long story short, he told me he liked what i was doing etc, but to find a songwriter and be more consistent in my sound. He went on to tell me about of his bands which are friends of mine amazing band very famous now, and great writers/producer/mixers themselves. but he said when they broke up in the past he managed the lead singer, and put him on front of every label and no one would sign him, I asked why. Because hes unreal his writing and vocals are absolutely amazing also has the look and the confidence.

His response to my was this,

he had the same problem as you, one song would be a love song, the next would be a hip hop track there was no consistency in the sound

He goes onto say then the band got back together years later as an actual band (they were a boy band/group) And the stuff they did together worked, and had its own sound and was a consistent body of work.

Now today i get some feedback from an A&R at RCA, telling me my music no identity.

So my question is what do you do to give your self and identity other than using a lot of the same sounds all the time and same type of chord progressions etc, as a producer I want to be versatile. I think he might have been referring to the artist that was demoed because the 3 tracks were very different, I didnt want to send this demo, but it was a scenario in which it just happened the way it happened . But im not saying a producer shouldnt have a consistent sound he probaby mneant that too, i mean when u think about all the huge producers have a very distinct sound, you can always tell a dre beat when u hear it, like wise timbaland and the neptunes, even lil john.

Look forward to hearing your input on this. Cheers.

[Frisbieinstein]

Originally Posted by Realziment

he had the same problem as you, one song would be a love song, the next would be a hip hop track there was no consistency in the sound

When I was a boy my momma told me that, and she was right. What you have to do is pick one genre and stick with it. If you are rock then your music, clothes, and talk have all got to be 100% rock. Same with any other genre.

It is easy to say to yourself I'll do genre A and genre B and genre C and I'll have a bigger audience. No. You will have only people who like all three of A and B and C, which means just about nobody.

It is the same in all the arts. YOU MUST LIMIT YOURSELF SO THAT YOUR STYLE IS INSTANTLY RECOGNIZABLE. If that means limiting yourself to 5% of what you could do, then that's what you do. If you aren't willing to do that, then be a session man.

I once saw a display by painter so talented that she moved between styles like they were nothing. Six paintings could have been by six different people. This is strictly verboten. How did she get an exhibition if she broke the rules like that, you may ask? She is a crown princess of Thailand, that's how.

Think Roy Lichtenstein. He does nothing but comic book-style art. You must be strictly limited and narrowly focused.

Could a lot of big time artists do a lot more than they do? Sure. Some of them are very focused by nature, others have to impose it on themselves as a price they must pay. I have a friend who was on the 60's London scene and knew most of those famous people. He said, "They would have a few hit records and then say, 'I'm going to do my own thing now.'" He rolled his eyes.

The genre is big. You are small. If you have the genre on your side then Godzilla is your friend. If you cross the genre, Godzilla is your enemy. You know what happens then.

[Realziment]

Originally Posted by Frisbieinstein

When I was a boy my momma told me that, and she was right. What you have to do is pick one genre and stick with it. If you are rock then your music, clothes, and talk have all got to be 100% rock. Same with any other genre.

It is easy to say to yourself I'll do genre A and genre B and genre C and I'll have a bigger audience. No. You will have only people who like all three of A and B and C, which means just about nobody.

It is the same in all the arts. YOU MUST LIMIT YOURSELF SO THAT YOUR STYLE IS INSTANTLY RECOGNIZABLE. If that means limiting yourself to 5% of what you could do, then that's what you do. If you aren't willing to do that, then be a session man.

I once saw a display by painter so talented that she moved between styles like they were nothing. Six paintings could have been by six different people. This is strictly verboten. How did she get an exhibition if she broke the rules like that, you may ask? She is a crown princess of Thailand, that's how.

Think Roy Lichtenstein. He does nothing but comic book-style art. You must be strictly limited and narrowly focused.

Could a lot of big time artists do a lot more than they do? Sure. Some of them are very focused by nature, others have to impose it on themselves as a price they must pay. I have a friend who was on the 60's London scene and knew most of those famous people. He said, "They would have a few hit records and then say, 'I'm going to do my own thing now.'" He rolled his eyes.

The genre is big. You are small. If you have the genre on your side then Godzilla is your friend. If you cross the genre, Godzilla is your enemy. You know what happens then.

Everything you said is very much true and totally agree.

But I consider my genre to be hiphop/pop/RNB which is pretty much intertwined now, I mean the Hip is pop, and rnb is pop, and most producers i mentioned do all 3 as 1, As mentioned above, Timbaland, Dre and neptunes..

[fooloof]

is it possible that you're just following the trends of others and not setting your own? (it's not like my own music is grounbreaking, though). i think having your own sound is the key to catching on in the industry; otherwise there's no reason for a label to want to work with you. they can go to producer A, B or C for that sound.

the question seems to be:

what makes my music different from everybody else in the industry?

i think if more people knew the answer to this question (including myself), then they would have production deals.

maybe try listening to the early stuff of guys you admire, such as timbo and the neptunes. chances are, you will find that their early stuff was very consistent and narrowly focused on one style. for example, timbo didn't make any rock or pop songs until be became huge. see if you can identify the thing or things that made their stuff stand out. in other words, what were these guys doing that was unique to them?

dr dre really took the industry by storm with "the chronic", which was pretty consistent with it's "g-funk" sound, funky worm and synths, while most east coast cats focused on samples.

this may be easier said than done, but try to figure out what makes your music your own. timbo had the double time drum programming along with funny sounds like his beatboxing and crying babies. even now, these are his trademarks to some extent.

what makes your music stand out from the next guy's? whatever that is, that is going to the reason you land a deal. when you find that thing, see if you can figure out what types of songs maximize that sound. then, when major artists hear your tracks, they're gonna want that particular sound and there's only one place to get it: you.

having a really hot artist doesn't hurt, either. dre had snoop dogg, for example.


if you're getting your stuff heard by majors AND getting feedback, then you're obviously doing something right on the business side.

just me tuppence. take it with a grain of salt...

[Frisbieinstein]

Originally Posted by Realziment

Everything you said is very much true and totally agree.

But I consider my genre to be hiphop/pop/RNB which is pretty much intertwined now, I mean the Hip is pop, and rnb is pop, and most producers i mentioned do all 3 as 1, As mentioned above, Timbaland, Dre and neptunes..

Producing is out of my league.

But giving your music an identity.... Let's assume you've got all the talent and tools and that identity is all you are missing.... You're not one of the lucky ones with a distinctive voice who automatically have an identity....

One way is to find some sound you like so much you are willing to spend years developing it. Dig down deep and say "This is me. This is what I really care about. This is what I believe in. This is what I'm about, and if people don't like it, too bad." It takes guts to expose that.

Another way is to go see stars perform and try to gather what they are doing that the people like. Take the essence of that and make it your own in a disguised way.

Keep what works and discard what doesn't. Performing helps a great deal because you can see what people like right then and there. There's a reason big acts play in small clubs sometimes.

Gimmicks work too. Stevie's harmonica, Stevie Ray's hat, Zappa's beard, Avril's eyeshadow, Prince's thong, Englebert Humperdink's name, etc, etc, etc,. It may be superficial and may be undignified, but it can work.

What does NOT work is writing the same song over and over, adopting vocal mannerisms or catch phrases. This doesn't fool anybody.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by Realziment

So funny egough, I had a meeting with a huge music manager last week, nothing important its just he is from my hometown and I know hm trough a cousin and some friends, and he was in LA so i met him for coffee for advice etc, so to cut a long story short, he told me he liked what i was doing etc, but to find a songwriter and be more consistent in my sound. He went on to tell me about of his bands which are friends of mine amazing band very famous now, and great writers/producer/mixers themselves. but he said when they broke up in the past he managed the lead singer, and put him on front of every label and no one would sign him, I asked why. Because hes unreal his writing and vocals are absolutely amazing also has the look and the confidence.

His response to my was this, He goes onto say then the band got back together years later as an actual band (they were a boy band/group) And the stuff they did together worked, and had its own sound and was a consistent body of work.

Now today i get some feedback from an A&R at RCA, telling me my music no identity.

So my question is what do you do to give your self and identity other than using a lot of the same sounds all the time and same type of chord progressions etc, as a producer I want to be versatile. I think he might have been referring to the artist that was demoed because the 3 tracks were very different, I didnt want to send this demo, but it was a scenario in which it just happened the way it happened . But im not saying a producer shouldnt have a consistent sound he probaby mneant that too, i mean when u think about all the huge producers have a very distinct sound, you can always tell a dre beat when u hear it, like wise timbaland and the neptunes, even lil john.

Look forward to hearing your input on this. Cheers.

Sounds like you're trying too hard if you don't have a "sound" yet. It really should come naturally. And if you want attention of labels then you should concentrate on one style until you get "signed" or producer some big artists. Then after that, it's much easier to branch out and do other things. But A&R's want to hear consistency from track to track. The more they have to think about how to promote you, the less they will be interested. Make their job easy.

[chrisdee]

I think an identity comes from a recognizable voice.
Another thing that might create an identity is to use the same or similare sounds and build them together in your own way.

[zzz]

Oh, IDENTITY. Very far from hear to catch my ear since i was teens. A lot of passion were on the load. but when i get ages by take a year to year. ill forget identity a bit to bit. but when i was rock it that identity have keeping on the storm. but something was made by identity that become myself. keep what you doing man.

[medearis]

I'm blown away by some of these responses...
YEAH! Use gimmicks! Wear a thong and be narrow-minded!

Just be you, man. If people are turning you down because you're not a carbon copy of some other mother f*cker... then you're probably barking up the wrong tree, my friend!

Do not sell your self short and run out and do something that's NOT in your nature. That's false identity, which is worse than the lack of any identity. If you stick to YOUR guns and you're making some bangin' ass tracks and nothing is working out for you, I'd question your hustle before all else.






CHEERS!

[Karloff70]

The old thing of "sell what you make, don't make what sells" comes to mind. If you put YOU in your music in an effective manner, it will automatically have personality, namely yours.
If you make tracks, starting with what you think are "R&B ingredients", labor it a bit and then come to the point where you ask yourself "How do I put MYSELF into it now?" you've missed it. YOU have to be in there from the start and if necessary or desirable you can "bend into style" with the production on the end. So basically start with YOU and edge it back into a "style" box towards the end (only if it needs it!!) instead of starting with "style clichee" and then struggle to force YOU in amongst it. Throw the rules away when starting fresh stuff.....let happen! The good shit doesn't come from the 'clever' part of your brain, it comes "through" from the ether....but YOU have to rip the door open ajar for it to get through.....good luck

Next time you start a song and find yourself thinking "Nah....that's not cool/HipHop/R&B enough" about something that just "appeared" go there anyway. Follow it through and see what you end up with.......stuff that feels like "not much to it" at first can be the most powerful simple shit......

[NaturalBlack]

Originally Posted by medearis

Do not sell your self short and run out and do something that's NOT in your nature. That's false identity, which is worse than the lack of any identity. If you stick to YOUR guns and you're making some bangin' ass tracks and nothing is working out for you, I'd question your hustle before all else.






CHEERS!

Well said. Outside of improving your hustle. Do you feel like your music represents your identity as a person? When you listen to your music does it feel like you? Im working on that in my own music. And I see it there but not consistently yet

[NaturalBlack]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

T
Next time you start a song and find yourself thinking "Nah....that's not cool/HipHop/R&B enough" about something that just "appeared" go there anyway. Follow it through and see what you end up with.......stuff that feels like "not much to it" at first can be the most powerful simple shit......

Agreed. That's something I didn't learn until I started recording a bunch of other artists. When I really noticed what it is in others that give them there own style it was easier for me to take a step back and look at my own.

[wreckingstuff]

Originally Posted by ryst

Sounds like you're trying too hard if you don't have a "sound" yet. It really should come naturally.

That's how I see it.

From your website OP:

" If you want a bangin club hit, we can do it, if you want a chilled out love track, we can do it, if you want a west coast gangsta beat, we can do it, If you like the dirty south beats we can do it, no matter what the sound or the style we can do it."

That be your problem?

Originally Posted by zzz

Oh, IDENTITY. Very far from hear to catch my ear since i was teens. A lot of passion were on the load. but when i get ages by take a year to year. ill forget identity a bit to bit. but when i was rock it that identity have keeping on the storm. but something was made by identity that become myself. keep what you doing man.

True dat, keep it on the storm at all times.

[Realziment]

Originally Posted by wreckingstuff

That's how I see it.

From your website OP:

" If you want a bangin club hit, we can do it, if you want a chilled out love track, we can do it, if you want a west coast gangsta beat, we can do it, If you like the dirty south beats we can do it, no matter what the sound or the style we can do it."

That be your problem?

Haha wow! You know i cant access those ages of the ite from mac, so i though no one else could :( I wrote that when i was 15 im currently having a new site developed, the info on that site apart from the last 2 news updates and the myspace player are over 6 years old. So thansk kind of embarrassing. "Chilled out love track" What the flip!?

[zzz]

Originally Posted by wreckingstuff

True dat, keep it on the storm at all times.

Yo, can you keep it on the storm at all times ?
if you cant please dont say it.

[wreckingstuff]

Originally Posted by zzz

Yo, can you keep it on the storm at all times ?
if you cant please dont say it.

Ok maybe not at all times, but you gotta strive man.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Realziment

So funny egough, I had a meeting with a huge music manager last week, nothing important its just he is from my hometown and I know hm trough a cousin and some friends, and he was in LA so i met him for coffee for advice etc, so to cut a long story short, he told me he liked what i was doing etc, but to find a songwriter and be more consistent in my sound. He went on to tell me about of his bands which are friends of mine amazing band very famous now, and great writers/producer/mixers themselves. but he said when they broke up in the past he managed the lead singer, and put him on front of every label and no one would sign him, I asked why. Because hes unreal his writing and vocals are absolutely amazing also has the look and the confidence.

His response to my was this, He goes onto say then the band got back together years later as an actual band (they were a boy band/group) And the stuff they did together worked, and had its own sound and was a consistent body of work.

Now today i get some feedback from an A&R at RCA, telling me my music no identity.

So my question is what do you do to give your self and identity other than using a lot of the same sounds all the time and same type of chord progressions etc, as a producer I want to be versatile. I think he might have been referring to the artist that was demoed because the 3 tracks were very different, I didnt want to send this demo, but it was a scenario in which it just happened the way it happened . But im not saying a producer shouldnt have a consistent sound he probaby mneant that too, i mean when u think about all the huge producers have a very distinct sound, you can always tell a dre beat when u hear it, like wise timbaland and the neptunes, even lil john.

Look forward to hearing your input on this. Cheers.

Be a leader and not a follower.
Find an artist who is different. Write songs that are original in content and not the same old shit about money,whips,bling,hos and the like.
Believe me,there are many topics out there which need to be written about and rapped about.
Come up with new sounds,new efx,new ways of mixing.
Its not easy but with alot of concentration and inventiveness you can do it.

[medearis]

I guess the first step to identity is to have one of your own... independently of the music you're trying to sell, that is. GET BACK TO THE CENTER, MON!






Being over image, not image over being.

[KRStudio]

Don't worry about the style. Find a signature (yours) sound, feel, something that ties them all together. Lenny Kravitz is all over the map, but always sounds like Lenny and it's more than a vocal thing.

[wax808]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Be a leader and not a follower.
Find an artist who is different. Write songs that are original in content and not the same old shit about money,whips,bling,hos and the like.
Believe me,there are many topics out there which need to be written about and rapped about.
Come up with new sounds,new efx,new ways of mixing.
Its not easy but with alot of concentration and inventiveness you can do it.

+1

There are a million things to rap about.

[jlacck]

The old thing of "sell what you make, don't make what sells" comes to mind. If you put YOU in your music in an effective manner, it will automatically have personality, namely yours.
If you make tracks, starting with what you think are "R&B ingredients", labor it a bit and then come to the point where you ask yourself "How do I put MYSELF into it now?" you've missed it. YOU have to be in there from the start and if necessary or desirable you can "bend into style" with the production on the end.

I think this is the best post on the topic so far. Dude took the words right outta my mouth. I've actually been in this same situation when I was presenting music to the representatives of some BIG name artists! But one of the things I learned was that NONE of that music was really ME. I was presenting what I thought they wanted to hear rather than presenting what I wanted them to hear. What I learned sequentially is that you gotta be yourself at all times, and your music needs to identify that. People in this game tend to prefer masters of something over a jack of all trades.

For instance: If you go to Kanye for a track, you're not going to him for a jazzy rock & roll track. Whether he can actually do that style or not, you're going to Kanye for Kanye's sound! You're going to him for what he is known for. Just like you go to Dre for Dre's sound! Same with Timbaland or anybody else that is known for what they do.

So back to the OP's situation, while there is nothing wrong with being versatile, it still comes back to establishing exactly what your sound is. So you've gotta figure out what you do BEST and then determine how you want to present what it is that you do best in the way that YOU want people to hear it.


I hope that helps.



D

[Id Ridden]

One song a love song the next a hip-hop song, no consistency in the sound?

That doesn't make sense to me. What sound? That is style/tangent/topic and has nothing to do with sound...

If your sound has no identity then you are missing the YOUR part....When you follow you are at the mercy of that which you follow, if they drive off a cliff then that is your fate...

Anyways I could go on and on about this getting really deep into it but more then anything I wanted to post to say I wasn't going to say anything other then this being a ridiculous question containing some ridiculous answers and some ridiculous advice, ridiculous...

Of course I am no expert and am making no claims unto my own sound or no claims unto the validity of what I am saying. I also make no judgments upon anyone nor do I think negatively upon anyone that disagrees with my statements or has opinions that differ from mine, you are free to do and think as you please.

I prefer not to force it but rather to utilize the force

[KevWest]

to your musical identity comes from your whole body of work. after a while you get known for sounding a certain way.

[Xplizit]

Hmm...interesting thread...I can remember, while finding myself, at 1 time thinking alot of the same things...like, How wouldve I done a popular track different, or if someone came to me with a hiphop style that wasnt really my niche, which used to be radio joints BTW...but over time experience at different styles of hip hop is what made me find my sound...I wouldnt narrow it down to just a specific hip hop style tho, as there would be little room for growth...try everything to become a better producer...Demos are a different beast, thats when you send what your best at, it doesnt mean you have to be limited to that, its just the business side of music...x...

[rizeup7]

Originally Posted by jlacck

People in this game tend to prefer masters of something over a jack of all trades.

For instance: If you go to Kanye for a track, you're not going to him for a jazzy rock & roll track. Whether he can actually do that style or not, you're going to Kanye for Kanye's sound! You're going to him for what he is known for. Just like you go to Dre for Dre's sound! Same with Timbaland or anybody else that is known for what they do.

D

Very true. I find myself trying to calm the "jack of all trades" mentality down. Before, when I was just dealing with local artists, this was a virtue, because their budgets limited them from moving around from producer to producer, sound to sound, and coming to me was great for them to get a complete album of cohesiveness, or the now ever-popular "compilation-sounding album". THIS DOES NOT FLY in the industry! Learned it the hard way.

[Realziment]

Originally Posted by Id Ridden

One song a love song the next a hip-hop song, no consistency in the sound?

That doesn't make sense to me. What sound? That is style/tangent/topic and has nothing to do with sound...

If your sound has no identity then you are missing the YOUR part....When you follow you are at the mercy of that which you follow, if they drive off a cliff then that is your fate...

Anyways I could go on and on about this getting really deep into it but more then anything I wanted to post to say I wasn't going to say anything other then this being a ridiculous question containing some ridiculous answers and some ridiculous advice, ridiculous...

Of course I am no expert and am making no claims unto my own sound or no claims unto the validity of what I am saying. I also make no judgments upon anyone nor do I think negatively upon anyone that disagrees with my statements or has opinions that differ from mine, you are free to do and think as you please.

I prefer not to force it but rather to utilize the force

It was a pretty good thread until your ridiculous post.

[Realziment]

Some interestng responses here. Thanks for the feedback.

[MikeyMike]

For your music to have an identity, you must first lose the modern day beat hoe mentality. If you buy or download sound samples, that's cool but you must take those sounds and make something original with them. Whether you do R&B or Hip-Hop has nothing to do with an identity. This idiotic thinking process comes from this I'm a supaproducer mentality. An album is suppose to be an emotional journey. The sound you choose to have should be on a album and artist basis. Certain sounds and textures fit certain artists vocals. The weirdest thing I have heard of since listening to music is hearing New York/Phillie rappers on Southern music and vice versa. Just doesn't sound right. I'd rather make a statement than have an identity anyday. This supaproducer fad is over. The consumer can give 2 turds about who produced a track. Start concerning yourself with making quality music first. That "identity" or whatever you intended for it to mean comes naturally. It's like a woman who learns how to cook from watching her mother yet, over time, develops her own way of cooking. Eventually she creates new, better recipes that gives herself an "identity" so to speak.

[Starshine]

You might wanna stop listening to the radio for some time and see what comes out of your soul when composing.

But at the end of the day what makes a great song is A GREAT SINGER/RAPPER, not a great instrumental. At least that's how it should be. Meaning the singer should bring the "music identity stamp", not the beat.

[Chris Lago]

I'm having the same problem as an artist because I love RNB/Pop/Electro equally to Alt-Rock, but I have a hard time letting myself record my own music in both genres. Seems to be working for now but I don't know how long it'll last.