Apple logic pro for hip hop production?

[min]

Hello all, my name is min. i am originally from vietnam. And, my dream is to bring hip hop, rnb sounds to vietnamese music. I am planning to go to sae school for audio production.

I have done some research, but haven't yet found all the answer to my questions. From my research, it looks like protools is the way to go for production. I read magazines and everyone from cool and dre in miami, dr. dre, black eye peas .. etc all use protools. No one has mentioned apple logic pro except for house/trance dance oriented producers.

my first question is for hip hop producers, why protools but not logic? As i understand, logic has better midi function than protools and that protools is more commonly used in studios than logic. I would greatly appreciated anyone can help me to understand a bit more.

I am in the process of slowly build my own studio equipments, I hope to learn great deals from this board.

thank you all. min

[rickrock305]

Man i love the internet...who knew there was a guy in Vietnam doing hip hop. thats ****ing great!!!


Anyway, to answer your question, there's nothing wrong with Logic. Its a very good program. A bit harder to learn than pro tools, but its MIDI functionality is second to none. I use logic pro to track my beats and overdub software instruments, of which plenty are included with Logic Pro. Then i transfer everything over to pro tools for editeing, recording vocals, and mixing...pretty much anything audio related gets done with Pro Tools. I think the only reason everyone uses Pro Tools is that it was the first professional software and the easiest to learn/use. Other than that its all up to you ard your personal preferences...just finding what works best for you. I would check both programs out...Digidesign has Pro Tools Free that works like a demo, and i'm sure Logic has something similar.

Any questions feel free to fire away. And good luck bringing hip hop to the vietnamese masses!!!!

[Dr.Wu]

The biggest strength of logic is its internal instruments and plug ins and how it integrates them into the workflow.
You get a pretty complete suite of production tools when you buy the Pro version.
Synths,sampler,rhodes,organ,clavinet,drummach ine,reverbs,delays,EQs,compressors,ampsimulat ions,autotune-you name it- its in there
No problem to record your audiotracks with it either.
You can download a trial version of Logic Express (the entrylevel version) at the Apple website.

Dr.Wu

[blayz2002]

Most guys that have used or do use both say that Pro Tools is better for handling Audio (tracking /mixing /processing) and Logic Pro is better for handling the midi side, pre the tracking (combining your synths/ samples & sequencing) and mixing stage.

Now as a lot of guys use the MPC or other workstations for the sequencing...they mostly just go straight into Pro Tools to handle the tracking and the mixing. (although some guys prefer to track to Logic and then mix in Pro Tools)

So if you are looking for all round production suite (including all the Audio units stuff mentioned above, and the Midi manipulation) then Logics ya man. If you are gonna get a MPC or the like for squencing, then I would prob look a Pro Tools.

Another thumbs up for Pro Tools is it can attract clients if you ever plan on renting out your studio.

[BigAl]

1. It is you that is very important when producing music: not LogicPro or Protools. These programs are great tools for putting your thoughts all together on disk.
2. The sounds that goes into your computer is as good as your converters. Start with the best converter that your money can buy. Research converters first!!!!
3. The music must translate perfectly to every stereo system and this also includes boomboxes. Therefore, research monitors!!!!!!!

With the combination on these 3 that I just mention with you on top, it doesn't matter what DAW you use. You are a winner with good sounding music. Don't forget about studio acoustics. Anyways, Logic has the best midi feature that put Protools to shame. These features are a must have for producing techno and trance (if you are into that too). If you got the cash to blow, the full blown Protools HD systems is awesome. It's good for recording audio from bands or from an external sequencer such as a MPC. How can you go wrong with ProTools; it's just a money thing with PT.

Other than that, I would take Logic for less with the best converter money can buy. Then produce the hits for the master engineers so they can blow-up your tracks with their high-end mastering gear and software for about $100-$200 a track or whatever. For now, save your cash for converters and monitors. Go for Logic pro and get paid.

[Dos]

Originally Posted by BigAl

1. It is you that is very important when producing music: not LogicPro or Protools. These programs are great tools for putting your thoughts all together on disk.
2. The sounds that goes into your computer is as good as your converters. Start with the best converter that your money can buy. Research converters first!!!!
3. The music must translate perfectly to every stereo system and this also includes boomboxes. Therefore, research monitors!!!!!!!

With the combination on these 3 that I just mention with you on top, it doesn't matter what DAW you use. You are a winner with good sounding music. Don't forget about studio acoustics. Anyways, Logic has the best midi feature that put Protools to shame. These features are a must have for producing techno and trance (if you are into that too). If you got the cash to blow, the full blown Protools HD systems is awesome. It's good for recording audio from bands or from an external sequencer such as a MPC. How can you go wrong with ProTools; it's just a money thing with PT.

Other than that, I would take Logic for less with the best converter money can buy. Then produce the hits for the master engineers so they can blow-up your tracks with their high-end mastering gear and software for about $100-$200 a track or whatever. For now, save your cash for converters and monitors. Go for Logic pro and get paid.

I hear what you are saying Big AL but I'm not sure if this is good advice for someone just starting out. (with no equipment at all)
Min, forget convertors and monitors!!! They are extremely important in mixing and recording but because you've never made music before I think this informatation and information about room acoustics etc. will just slow you down.
Pick a sequencer that you think would suit your needs, down load some demos.
There's others out there too, digital performer and cubase being just two. Personally I would advise logic tho. The reason Pro Tools is so popular is because it was designed like a tape machine and is extremely easy to use. It is great for recording and good for audio editing however it is mainly its ease of use that has it where it is. When studios made the switch to digital pro tools gave them a familiar interface.
I can see pro tools going tho, we've already seen a large portion of the audio post industry (sound for movies) move to Pyramix systems and due to PTLEs limitations on track count and plug-in delay compensation I think people are going to start out making music realising that programs like logic are far superior. Logic's midi environment is second to none it allows you to totally create your own working environment.
If you are just starting out get a half decent soundcard and a half decent set of monitors and just start creating!!! Making music should be fun. You can be pretty sure that 99% of your favourite Hip Hop artists started out with a very sinple setup. Probably and MPC and a pair of headphones. It'll be a few years before you have to worry about acoustics. Start making music! It takes a lot of dedication to get to a standard where you'll start getting tracks realeased.
And the advice to get a HD system if you are just starting out is rediculous!!!!!
Unless you have mad money to throw away. You will not see the benefits of a HD sys and you certainly do not NEED one.
Just start making music, you get the bug from there!!

[Fredrik]

I would agree with Dos on most points and would like to point out that if you do decide to go for logic go for the pro option as there is no upgradepath and I think you will find the limits anoying sooner than you think, after all they made it that way.

When considering protools though think about that you´ll get included hardware with protools as is not the case with logic. On Logic pro on the other hand you get lot´s of useful software instruments and a sampler that integrates really good with the program (drag and drop support).

You can get professional results from both, it´s a matter of taste only. I think you should demo both programs and take it from there.

[Igotsoul4u]

As far as logic verse protools, that might change once protools 7 gets out. Protools has been very much behind the game as far as midi is concerned. 7 is supposed to fix alot of midi limitations but until i see it i am sticking with logic. By the way. Logic can be bought for $500 via the apple store education discount. I'm talkin the full version too. Can't really beat that. I think Logic also smashes protools LE. You can have way more tracks in logic, both audio and midi. Protools LE seems like they dumb it down on purpose so people will yearn for the full on TDM version. One more thing. I think you are wasting your money by going to SAE or any other school like that. Use the money to by gear and learn it yourself. Nobody gets a leg up or a head start by going to these BS schools. Go work at a studio and you will learn everything you need to know, and in 9 months when all the other SAE guys graduate you will 9 months ahead of them in the game. Please trust me on this one. The other thing you need to consider is that you might not even like working in the music business. I have seen hundreds of kids drop 25,000 dollars on their useless education only to find out the music biz isn't that magical fantasy land that most people think it is. Intern at a studio and make sure you like it before you place yourself into the horrible world of debt.

[min]

hi guys, first of all thank you all for your inputs from rickrock305, Dr.Wu, blayz2002, BigAl, Dos, Fredrik to Igotsoul4u. Your inputs do clear out some my questions and raise others.

Igotsoul4u - music is my passion and hobby. If in 4 or 5 years, i can make a decent living with music, then my life is a more wonderful than i can ever ask for. As for now i am working full time to keep myself going and slowly save money for the equipments. Your advice to save money for equipment and not attend sae school sounds good. But, finding a intern position in studio might be very tough. I don't have any musical knowledge and skills. No studio will want me except for me to do cleaning work for them. I would work as a cleaner if i can be exposed to music studio environments but life is not that simple. Nonetheless, your advice did give me second thought about how i want to go about with my plans.

I checked out apple site and see that i can get logic pro for half price if i am going to buy their mac system. I didn't see about the education discount, will go back and check it out. Logic sounds more suitable than protools to me after all because if i am going to make music now and in a couple of years from now, i doubt i will be playing and recording live. All my work would come from writing in midi format and sound will come from softsynth.

What do you guys think about propellerhead reason? i am currently playing around with reason (adapted version) and I like it. It's simple and easy to write music, but my concern is its sound quality? I don't want to invest my money and times to some programs and later on can't do work with it. As for logic, I suppose i can't demo it because i have just built my pc computer and logic is for mac only if i'm not mistaken.

About protools, I am thinking of m-power protools (much cheaper than protools le and protools tmd) as i am currently use the audiophile 2496 pci sound card. But, then as I mention above, i won't be doing any recording. All my works will be mainly in writing midi form. I wonder if protools is for me, someone at my level.

as for now, i am planning to buy sequencer soon and next is a midi keyboard and a pair of speakers ( i am looking at event asp8's). Basically, lots of questions still remain and lots of plans on how to go to where i want to go and limited money. I hope that i won't make a mistake in investing the money on the equiptments.

You guys been very helpful and thank you all for that. Will keep posted and updated on my process. ciao!

[Igotsoul4u]

Originally Posted by min

hi guys, first of all thank you all for your inputs from rickrock305, Dr.Wu, blayz2002, BigAl, Dos, Fredrik to Igotsoul4u. Your inputs do clear out some my questions and raise others.

Igotsoul4u - music is my passion and hobby. If in 4 or 5 years, i can make a decent living with music, then my life is a more wonderful than i can ever ask for. As for now i am working full time to keep myself going and slowly save money for the equipments. Your advice to save money for equipment and not attend sae school sounds good. But, finding a intern position in studio might be very tough. I don't have any musical knowledge and skills. No studio will want me except for me to do cleaning work for them. I would work as a cleaner if i can be exposed to music studio environments but life is not that simple. Nonetheless, your advice did give me second thought about how i want to go about with my plans.

For the record... When I started interning I knew way more about recording, music, etc... then the kid that was bossing me around. My point is that you don't need to know much more then burning a CD and some basic computer skills. I also think you will be very suprised at how knowledge you will absorb by being around the real thing. You will also learn what you need to know without a whole bunch of other useless things. But anyway, it is not really that hard to get an intern position. If you are willing to put in 3 days a week for free, any studio will take you. If you turn out to be worth keeping around, you will get paid and eventually become an assistant. If you suck, then they will keep you around until you get bored and leave. If you are going to drop money for school, do it for something other then music. Either way. Good luck to you.

[min]

Thank you, Igotsoul4u. I'm looking into volunteer working for free at studios in nyc part time. do you know where i can start looking in nyc ?

again, thanks!

[blayz2002]

I'll point out another thing here, when it comes to starting out...it can get very confusing. Your mates telling get this it's the bomb...reading mags and the internet and getting all sorts of opinions and then going to shops and them trying to sell whatever they get the best profit margin on.

The thing is when your starting out you will make mistakes (that's how you learn). So try and demo what you can and get kit that's in your budget, and then look to upgrade when you know it ain't giving what you want.

Your never gonna get it right first time (why co's your a newbie)

When I started 5 years ago I knew I wanted keyboards, something to bang out drum samples and something to bring it all together. Didn't have a clue about brands or nothing. I just bought the stuff learned how to use it...then knew it was time to spend more money when I couldn't get the sound I wanted and my PC couldn't process all the tracks.

[rickrock305]

thats good advice. Its all a trial and error process. You just have to find what works best for you and how you like to work. You'll make mistakes, just learn from them.

[Anonyme]

i do not know reason more than by name, but if you are happy with it, stay with it.

if you are happy with your "adapted"-version, do not buy a bigger one.

if it lacks something you want, post it here and there will probably be someone able either to help you inside reason, or to give you a clue what program might be more suited for you.

thinking to get the best software first is - in my opinion - not a good idea. that could be true with hardware, where it would be buying twice if you buy inferior quality for starters, but in software there are always updates to buy if you want the latest version.
if you buy a cheap software first is not going to be a waste, as if you buy your "real" software later it will be up to date.

what you learn in reason will not be lost, because it will help you in other programs too. i do not know how limited reason is, but limitaion can be a good think too, to learn some basics you really need and not to float around inbetween millions of funktions you do not need.

and i suppose you can export both audio and midi from reason, so you should be able to work with stuff you've done with it in other sequencers too.

[Igotsoul4u]

Originally Posted by min

Thank you, Igotsoul4u. I'm looking into volunteer working for free at studios in nyc part time. do you know where i can start looking in nyc ?

again, thanks!

Here are some studios. You should be able to find their numbers on the net

Right Track Recording - 212-944-5770
Soundtraks - 212-420-6010
Mirror Image - 212-391-6645
Sony Studios - 212- 833-7373
Avatar Studios - 212-765-7500
Magic Shop - 212-226-7035
Sear Sound - 212-582-5380
The Barbershop - 973-398-8540

I would be surprised if one of these studios wouldn't want an intern.
Just call up and say you are interested in an internship or a entry level job. Tell them that you are willing to do whatever. Don't go into the music business is my dream crap. Just say that you are very interested in seeing how the business works for real from the bottom up. Don't say that you know nothing but don't over inflate what you do know. Hope this helps.

[FlatlineNYC]

min... I'm a graduate of audio production from the Art Institutes. Their program is decent, and I also looked at SAE. From what I gather Fullsail college in florida is truly the top audio production school. It is highly respected among the education and professional communities. Unfortunately Fullsail is a bit more expensive than SAE. No doubt that SAE has a good program, I would just suggest checking into Fullsail before commiting, good luck.

[txgator]

I would say that the even better program is the Conservatory for Recording Arts in Arizona

[illynoise]

Get Logic, no questions. PT comes with shit plugins and you don't get anything usefull built into the program to help you bring hip hop anywhere. DP, Cubase, PT all only have a few plugins and instruments that come with the program, you will either have to buy a suite of plugs or go without, but with logic you get a lot of stuff to make music with.

Don't get Logic Express, save the money or get the educational version for 499.00.

Good luck,

BaseJase

[mox]

Logic for plugz?

PT otherwise and for the plugz, I say.

I switched from Logic 2 Toolz many years ago, cuz I wanted to do everything in one program. PT is the shiz.

There is a reason why it's the INDUSTRY STANDARD.

MIN - Dude, try 'em out. Hit a store up for some demo time. Decide 4 urself what you're 'feelin'.

moxman.

[illynoise]

Originally Posted by mox

Logic for plugz?

PT otherwise and for the plugz, I say.

I switched from Logic 2 Toolz many years ago, cuz I wanted to do everything in one program. PT is the shiz.

There is a reason why it's the INDUSTRY STANDARD.

MIN - Dude, try 'em out. Hit a store up for some demo time. Decide 4 urself what you're 'feelin'.

moxman.

Mox, PT is cool, don't get me wrong, but it's not as hot as Logic. It's not even close for making music. I spent all summer working with PT, and bottom line is that there are many things musically that PT can't do. There's only a few things that Logic can't do PT does, and it's mainly audio but not musical things.

Looping acidizing, garageband instruments, Sculpture, Bass Amp, Built in drum sequencer, autotuning plugins, musically PT can't touch it. There's only a few features like panning and tab to transient and sample level editing that would come in handy for Logic. But even some of those features are possible, only through key commands. If you haven't used Logic 7, you can't compare logic 5 or 6, it's totally different. I'm waiting for my PT 7 upgrade now.

Peace out,

BaseJase

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by illynoise

Mox, PT is cool, don't get me wrong, but it's not as hot as Logic. It's not even close for making music. I spent all summer working with PT, and bottom line is that there are many things musically that PT can't do. There's only a few things that Logic can't do PT does, and it's mainly audio but not musical things.

Looping acidizing, garageband instruments, Sculpture, Bass Amp, Built in drum sequencer, autotuning plugins, musically PT can't touch it.
Peace out,

BaseJase

I second this100%. I say Logic. I also think as for as producing electronic music is concern, Steinberg is even better.

Humm.... I went to the Apple store and they said to me that the company is switching over to the Intel chip. I guest this is something to think about also.

[baggysound]

Originally Posted by BigAl

I second this100%. I say Logic. I also think as for as producing electronic music is concern, Steinberg is even better.

Humm.... I went to the Apple store and they said to me that the company is switching over to the Intel chip. I guest this is something to think about also.

that'll still take a while and in the beginning, of course they'll have all software running on both platforms so programmers will have to program for both platforms

that's why apple just recently released the new G5 dual-cores with the top end product: a dual dual-core 2.5 Ghz version that they call "Quad", so don't already count the current processors as outdated

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by baggysound

that'll still take a while and in the beginning, of course they'll have all software running on both platforms so programmers will have to program for both platforms

So instead of using that PC card, thay will use the Intel chip with the G5? I guest it would be a good ideal.

[illynoise]

Not to make the a computer geek conference, but Intel is here in Colorado, I got some people that work up there. They are telling me that they have a few machines with XP and OSX on the same machine, and also they already planned 9 chip cores in two years. I'm not really sure what that is, but sounds hot!

BaseJase
Illynoise

[baggysound]

Originally Posted by BigAl

So instead of using that PC card, thay will use the Intel chip with the G5? I guest it would be a good ideal.

i don't fully understand what you mean with "PC card"

the current architecture is based on power pc chips, in future they will use intel chips..

[baggysound]

Originally Posted by illynoise

Not to make the a computer geek conference, but Intel is here in Colorado, I got some people that work up there. They are telling me that they have a few machines with XP and OSX on the same machine, and also they already planned 9 chip cores in two years. I'm not really sure what that is, but sounds hot!

BaseJase
Illynoise

a chip core is the most inner part of the cpu (central processing unit), that actually does the main work.

usually you have 1 core per cpu, except for dual-core systems..
in dual core systems you have 2 cores, so the workload is balanced to both chips

that is still within 1 cpu, as compared to a dual processor system with 2 cpu's (with each 1 core)

the new apple quad is dual-cpu AND dual-core (so 2 chips in 2 cpu's making it together 4 working chips, hence the name "quad")


the transaction to the intel chipsets should be pretty smooth because OSX has already been compiled to work on both platforms (power pc and intel's x86) for the last 5 years, and similar to the last big transition that appleuser went through approximately 10 years ago (going from the 68k to the power pc platform) there will be packages called "universal package" for programs, that include the binaries for both platforms, so the user doesn't necessarily need to "choose" platformspecific when buying software