MPC5000 idea

[genericperson]

just had a thought here. wanted to see if other people would dig this too.

for the "next" MPC.... integrate VST effects and VST instruments, 64bit internal mixing, a way to hook up a keyboard, mouse and monitor, make mono and stereo analog overdub recording very easy, and make use of all the latest 1gigabyte memory stick ram stuff to the fullest. to cut down on noise, lag, and system failure, i could conceiveably see doing something like loading the thing up with several 2-gig memory sticks and ditching the hard drive idea all together. then just back up using firewire/on board dvd-r, etc. save the computer for other things like mastering.

it seems like so many people like to make beats on the MPC. but then throw it into Protools LE for mixing just so they can get the vocals and the mix going. and they often hate the part about having to go into protools.

i would do everything on the MPC if it could just do VST effects/VSTi's, and have an internal 64 bit mixer.

i think there is a fundamental difference between the protools LE user who is just trying to use the computer to add vocals to their mpc beats and mix, rather than the "record anything that comes in" studio that can record 64 tracks simultaneously, giant consoles, string orchestras, film scoring, etc.

i think the MPC 4000 is about 65% of the way there. i think the computer could be bypassed entirely with the features above.

anybody else like this "complete the MPC so we can ditch our computers" idea?

[halfguard]

doesnt rolands mv8000 do most of that?

[XHipHop]

That sounds as expensive as a Korg Oasis or something...

[ILL]

You are bypassing a computer by making it a computer ?

Whenever you talk MPC's you are rubbin my itch so I gotta chime in.

Years ago I was saying they should merge the MPC and a rack sampler, and they did with the MPC 4K.

Now I wish they would

1. make the sequencer have a groove quantize feature where you can snatch the groove from audio,

2. An audio to midi function,

3. a sequencer resolution of 960 ppq instead of 96.

4. They could include a flam button along with the note repeat. Hell for that matter they could include the feel and other parameters of the Roland R8 (ONe of the world's greatest drum machines as far as programming, If it sampled I wouldnt use and MPC)


I'd like to be able to use plugins also like the waves transient designer, and filter bank/compressor bank, along with the URS API EQ but I'm not choosey.

Hell for all that they should just make a soft synth/plugin MPC where you could have the real feel of an MPC, then you would be able to use your plugs. They could package it with their little midi pad set up, that way you'd have a virtual MPC, and they would still get to sell a hardware piece.

[nukmusic]

I ordered it......

[genericperson]

I think the sequencer is 960ppq now...take a look at their website.

[Dor]

the 4k is i know that.

[genericperson]

yeah, i went back to the website. definitely says 960ppq.

now we just need vst capability, easy overdubbing, and a 64 bit internal mixer.



Basically, the MPC should grow into this:

"The superior, complete beat-making, over-dubbing, and mixing solution for today's hip-hop producer."

[Igotsoul4u]

Sounds like a computer running logic to me.

[genericperson]

not at all:

1) I hate Logic (personal preference)
2) Logic has no direct controls or i/o. it's all accessed by proxy though the computer and external devices
3) a computer makes a lot of noise due to fans, etc.
4) a computer is more prone to crashes, skips, and lock-ups
5) Logic does not dominate the hip-hop production community like the MPC does.
6) Logic (and other DAW's) pound on the hard drives. The MPC can do it's business entirely off of ram. This means fast response and less choking.
7) When you input a drum hit using any outboard MIDI device with Logic (or any other DAW), there is 1ms delay for every note hit. The MPC pads do not have this problem since it's a direct pipeline.
8) The MPC is cool to look at and fun to work with. Logic is software in a computer box.

[ILL]

I say again, you could MOD a computer(i could do that) to do EXACTLY what you want...

[genericperson]

the idea is to get the MPC to the point where you can skip the computer for overdubs and mixing, not to try to get a computer to look or behave like an MPC.

if you're not into MPC's, or think you can do whatever you want as good or better on a computer, then this thread is not for you. it's for people who are enthusiastic about MPC's, and would like to talk about what it would take to get it to the next level.

[Nahuel]

i'm dreamin of akai sellin a pci card w 4 or 8 outz w da mpc 3000 d/a.
i love how mpcz soundz, but i realy prefer live 5 to make my music... n saving xxx prog in xxx samplerz,synths n pc for one song... just bore me.

[ILL]

Originally Posted by genericperson

the idea is to get the MPC to the point where you can skip the computer for overdubs and mixing, not to try to get a computer to look or behave like an MPC.

if you're not into MPC's, or think you can do whatever you want as good or better on a computer, then this thread is not for you. it's for people who are enthusiastic about MPC's, and would like to talk about what it would take to get it to the next level.

I love MPCs but what you are talking about is not an MPC. It's more like a computer with a modern sequencer as a shell.

[rnbeatz]

I'd like to see Akai take the approach that Yamaha has taken with their Motif ES and other boards. Integrate a mackie control that controls Live, Logic and other DAWs. Put more sliders and knobs that can tweek softsynths and mix your DAW with. Put a firewire connection so you can use the MPC i/o as the converters for your studio. Blur the line between hardware and software.

[jgo]

I think you guys got some saucy ideas for an Uber production system, but I have to agree that what you guys want is not an MPC.
Sure it could be a future MPC, but you really want all that in one box?
I think this goes way beyond what the MPC is & was originally designed to be.

I have used them all & it always comes back to the 60/3000 being the best MPC's ever made.
Because they are simple, they do one thing & they do it good - programming/sampling beats & rythmic feel which is still unsurpassed to this day.

When you start adding all the additional stuff they start suffering in other areas, not always, but it happens.
If it didn't, there would be no need for OS updates.
Every time a new MPC is released, it's only a matter of weeks before you start seeing the masses whining & complaining for a new OS/update.
They will never be able to %100 satisfy everyone.

I say, leave the recording capabilties to the recording systems.

Personally, I'd like to see the MPC's take a step back & lose all the frills, add the option for better & real sound manipulation...
Why would I want to record vocals into an MPC?
Do you honestly think they could put a quality MicPre in it & keep it affordable?

Hard disk, CD-R, Q-Link, etc.. all that is cool, great advances.
Chop shop, slicer, whatever effect, etc... I guess thats a step forward too, but I think if you rely on the box too much to do all your work, it begins to lose that human feel / soul.

On board effects are cool, but %90 of the time, the never make it into the recordings I do, I track them dry & then add real effects later.

The 2500 looks promising, but I still don't see myself shaking the 3000 or 60.
I definitely like the looks & lay out.

Also, anyone tried the new MPC1000 OS thats been rumoured about?
Supposedly really really brings the 1000 up to snuff.
If only that damn thing was battery powered!

[genericperson]

the Roland MV8000 has onboard overdubbing and mixing. the big limitations are that you can't use VST effects, and I doubt the mix engine is 64 bit.

i wouldn't want it to have mic preamps. line inputs would be fine, and then run dedicated outboard preamps into it. a turntable input would be nice to keep in there, however.

think of it like a fighter airplane. everything is dedicated to a specific use. they have all sorts of computers and controls in them. none of them are off-the-shelf "windows" types of things.

also think of broadcast/radio workers. they have very dedicated controllers that do exactly what they need so they can meet tight timelines and split-second workflows. and these controllers are almost always all-in-one solutions, rather than a hodgepodge of stuff slapped together.

if *Roland* can get about 80% of the way there with the MV8000, I don't see why Akai can't leapfrog them in the next MPC and finish the job.

MPC stands for Music Production Center. We all know it's primary use is to make beats. But if you take the title seriously, it's missing overdubbing and mixing... the final things it needs.

If you're doing hip-hop, you rarely (ever?) will need to record 32 tracks simulaneously. Leave that for the Protools guys with the big setups (and leave video documentary soundtracking for another platform as well). I'm talking about once you have a happening track going, you should be able to lay in the vocals or an instrument part. And since 64 bit mixing is the next big thing, why not jump into that and be in the state-of-the-art of mixing?

And load all of the mix stuff into massive amounts of RAM for tight response and no wear and tear on the hard drives. RAM-based, super tight and punchy mixing- seems a natural next step for the MPC.

This all makes complete sense to me. Roland is already on to it. But without VST support and a high bit (64 bit) mix engine, it's not going to be "all there". Even if the Roland effects are good or great, one would have to be crazy to cut themselves off from the enormous high-quality VST effects community.

Akai already knows what VST is all about; they sell VST plugins of their own flavor. So just put two and two together, and we have the next MPC- the final frontier.

[fast-ideas]

Originally Posted by jgo

I think you guys got some saucy ideas for an Uber production system, but I have to agree that what you guys want is not an MPC.
Sure it could be a future MPC, but you really want all that in one box?
I think this goes way beyond what the MPC is & was originally designed to be.

I have used them all & it always comes back to the 60/3000 being the best MPC's ever made.
Because they are simple, they do one thing & they do it good - programming/sampling beats & rythmic feel which is still unsurpassed to this day.

When you start adding all the additional stuff they start suffering in other areas, not always, but it happens.
If it didn't, there would be no need for OS updates.
Every time a new MPC is released, it's only a matter of weeks before you start seeing the masses whining & complaining for a new OS/update.
They will never be able to %100 satisfy everyone.

I say, leave the recording capabilties to the recording systems.

Personally, I'd like to see the MPC's take a step back & lose all the frills, add the option for better & real sound manipulation...
Why would I want to record vocals into an MPC?
Do you honestly think they could put a quality MicPre in it & keep it affordable?

Hard disk, CD-R, Q-Link, etc.. all that is cool, great advances.
Chop shop, slicer, whatever effect, etc... I guess thats a step forward too, but I think if you rely on the box too much to do all your work, it begins to lose that human feel / soul.

On board effects are cool, but %90 of the time, the never make it into the recordings I do, I track them dry & then add real effects later.

The 2500 looks promising, but I still don't see myself shaking the 3000 or 60.
I definitely like the looks & lay out.

Also, anyone tried the new MPC1000 OS thats been rumoured about?
Supposedly really really brings the 1000 up to snuff.
If only that damn thing was battery powered!

This post took the words out of my mouth. I think Akai took the wrong turn when rather than refining the MPC 3000 they recreated with the MPC 2000. It was the quality and simplicity of the 3000 which were so alluring. They could still bring it out with certain OS updates and it would be an absolute classic. Let's face it if someone invented the acoustic guitar nowadays it would exist for a year before the marketing department would devise a new version incorporating a drum kit and piano.

[jgo]

So basically your saying integrate the equivalent of a Roland VS or Yamaha AW type recorder into an MPC?

Will it have a Tape editing block on it too? lol.

In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if this actualy comes about.
Just have to see who gets it right.

Major co-sign on a good quality Phono Preamp for direct turntable input though.

[genericperson]

Sort of, but at a much better level.

Think of it in terms of *workflow* rather than feature set, economics, etc.

1) you come up with a cool beat or catchy part
2) you start adding to it
3) then you have to overdub vocals and mix

it's at this point that the MPC hits a brick wall. the MPC user dumps the stuff into protools, hoping the drums don't start to sound thinner, the timing doesn't get lame, and the inspiration doesn't get lost.

why not keep the flow going and take it to the finish line inside the MPC?

sure, there will always be a need for a studio that can "record anything that walks in" and has 32 channels of ad/da and all the other stuff, including multiple tracking rooms.

but what about the "rest of us"? i think once the typical MPC user get the groove down, they have a lot of momentum. they aren't trying to be everything to every person. they have a target in mind: get the vocals down, fiddle with it, sweeten it up, and mix it.

a 64-bit, VST enabled environment inside the MPC could allow us to cross the finish line in style and with quality. think of how fat and tight the MPC sounds due to its OS, architecture, and RAM-based data use. now keep it going into the mix enviroment. it wouldn't just be like "ha-ha i don't have to use my computer today". it would be more like "this enviroment is superior in every way from start to finish to create build and mix a hip-hop track".

you need 64-bit to do this, and you need VSTsupport to get to the high-quality 3rd party effects. but not to turn it into a jack-of-all-trades master of none box (forget film scoring, 32 record tracks at once, etc.).

I wouldnt want the MPC to attempt to do everything. Using my 2kxl I only wish for usb mainly (which is on the 4k and 2500) The rest of the features I listed are related to drum programming. (making it like a sampling R8)

I'd like quality EQ/compression/and transient designer like attack shaping, but that wouldnt be absolutely necessary.

Now what I wish was possible was a way to zoom in on more than one sounds start time so that I could match them up (like I would in protools when aligning mults.) I do this now by sending the samples to ptools then exporting but being able to do it in the MPC at the sound source would be cool.

For guys with 2k or 3ks I think I've come up with a pretty good idea for having samples via USB instead of buying a new drum machine like the 4k or 2.5
I bought a roland fantom x rack on ebay for $800. It's 16bit, but it can hold 528mb of sounds not to mention it comes with the synth engine also. This is kinda why I never purchased a 4k. With my other pieces I already did all that a 4k would offer me so I didnt need one. (of course I'll probably get one eventually because I'm an MPC slut)

[genericperson]

I was just in the store tonight playing with the 2500. It's only 16 bit, but there is something about it that makes it sound cool. Not sure if it's the timing, converters, etc. But it definitely "frames" the sound into hip-hop.

Hilariously simple device. But cool.

Haven't tried the 4000 or the 1000 yet. Only the 2000, 2500 and 3000.

[tengu]

Has anybody seen the episode of the Simpsoms where Homer designs the car for his brothers (Danny Devitos voice) car Company?

[ttauri]

Originally Posted by tengu

Has anybody seen the episode of the Simpsoms where Homer designs the car for his brothers (Danny Devitos voice) car Company?

LOL. I want tail-fins on my MPC.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[bassics]

All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way.
Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.
Now, at last, I have found it....

[cdog]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Now I wish they would

1. make the sequencer have a groove quantize feature where you can snatch the groove from audio,

2. An audio to midi function,

3. a sequencer resolution of 960 ppq instead of 96.

4. They could include a flam button along with the note repeat. Hell for that matter they could include the feel and other parameters of the Roland R8 (ONe of the world's greatest drum machines as far as programming, If it sampled I wouldnt use and MPC)


I'd like to be able to use plugins also like the waves transient designer, and filter bank/compressor bank, along with the URS API EQ but I'm not choosey.

I switched to Logic 5.51 on a PC for these among other features....

The power is breathtaking....

The only problem is the learning curve....

Thats the best part of the MPC in my view. The immediacy.

Its an instrument, and as such, has limitations.

But inspires music... immediately.