Do you put a ceiling on lead vox?

Mils · 5th November 2005

Im interested in that kind of "in there" sound that I hear on 95% of commercial rap vocals....by "in there" I mean like a little bit of distance from the listener, like they sound in your face, loud, clear, clean, but not too up front....does anybody know what i mean? Like in a nice pocket where they sound BIG but are in a nice package sorta thing. Is this done with a limiter that doesnt let anything past say -2b or something? Hopefully somebody can demistify what I'm hearing. thanks.
M

filterayok · 5th November 2005

I know exactly what you mean----I'm no Mix engineer, but I notice i get closest to this sound when I get the EQ perfect----that "up frontess" is often caused by high endy stuff-----A de-esser definately helps, and on male vocals often that low 250hz area often causes an "upfront" bassy thing----i feel like when i take care of those issues, and highly compress, just before it starts to "pump," it'll start to give that "packaged" vocal sound------definately A-B to another record (probably Dre), and I think you'll be surprised at how NOT high endy the vocal is----at least thats my experience as of now) I know some dudes limit, but I find that increases the "in your face" thing and brings it out of that "pocket"... The limiter, to me, makes it sound like the vocals smeared across the whole mix-----interested in what others think....

Mils · 6th November 2005

yes! good to hear from somebody who knows exactly what I'm talking about. Its true a lot of the time it is the s's and more percussive consanants(sp?) that seem to really bite thru the mix and make it seem too close. And I've read on here that the majority of mixers working on hip hop stay away from reverb which can create distance....So I'm gonna take your advice for sure and pay attention to those frequencies and maybe not go so light on the compressor! I was thinking a limiter on a real light setting that just basically limited anything from reaching past, say....-2db might be used but I've never seen usage of a limiter mentioned at all for rap vox. Anyways, thanks for the advice and I def wanna see what others think too.

Igotsoul4u · 7th November 2005

The verb you pick can have a very nice effect on vocals that are way in your face. A good medium room (10ms predelay , 18m size) can reintroduce some headroom back into your vocal.

Jorg · 7th November 2005

It's actually quiet an old trick which they use in Audio-post (sound for TV) a lot as well. As far as I know its done by EQ and Early Reflections.

Try this:
Close your eyes.
Have a friend talk to you in a 3 meters distance.
Then let him walk really close to you (lets say 10-20cm distance) and talk.
Listen to the difference in tonality. Thats what you have to do with your EQ.
Its based on psychoacoustics, the way we localise sounds. It also works to a degree in the vertical plane.
Listen to what your recorded vocal sounds like and then EQ it so it sounds like your friend talking up close. Mostly its boosting the high end and getting the upper mids just right.

Then adjust the "reverb" for clarity. Work with Early Reflections to make the vocal more natural. Or try using very short delay instead of reverb. The trick here is to actually have no reverb tail at all. Make the vocal sound really dry.

Listen to Kelly Clarkson-Behind those Hazel eyes. I think its done very well there in the verses.

5th November 2005	#1
Mils Gear nut Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 108 Thread Starter	Do you put a ceiling on lead vox? Im interested in that kind of "in there" sound that I hear on 95% of commercial rap vocals....by "in there" I mean like a little bit of distance from the listener, like they sound in your face, loud, clear, clean, but not too up front....does anybody know what i mean? Like in a nice pocket where they sound BIG but are in a nice package sorta thing. Is this done with a limiter that doesnt let anything past say -2b or something? Hopefully somebody can demistify what I'm hearing. thanks. M

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5th November 2005	#2
filterayok Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,465	I know exactly what you mean----I'm no Mix engineer, but I notice i get closest to this sound when I get the EQ perfect----that "up frontess" is often caused by high endy stuff-----A de-esser definately helps, and on male vocals often that low 250hz area often causes an "upfront" bassy thing----i feel like when i take care of those issues, and highly compress, just before it starts to "pump," it'll start to give that "packaged" vocal sound------definately A-B to another record (probably Dre), and I think you'll be surprised at how NOT high endy the vocal is----at least thats my experience as of now) I know some dudes limit, but I find that increases the "in your face" thing and brings it out of that "pocket"... The limiter, to me, makes it sound like the vocals smeared across the whole mix-----interested in what others think....

6th November 2005	#3
Mils Gear nut Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 108 Thread Starter	yes! good to hear from somebody who knows exactly what I'm talking about. Its true a lot of the time it is the s's and more percussive consanants(sp?) that seem to really bite thru the mix and make it seem too close. And I've read on here that the majority of mixers working on hip hop stay away from reverb which can create distance....So I'm gonna take your advice for sure and pay attention to those frequencies and maybe not go so light on the compressor! I was thinking a limiter on a real light setting that just basically limited anything from reaching past, say....-2db might be used but I've never seen usage of a limiter mentioned at all for rap vox. Anyways, thanks for the advice and I def wanna see what others think too.

7th November 2005	#4
Igotsoul4u Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 2,845	The verb you pick can have a very nice effect on vocals that are way in your face. A good medium room (10ms predelay , 18m size) can reintroduce some headroom back into your vocal.

7th November 2005	#5
Jorg Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,582 1 Review written	It's actually quiet an old trick which they use in Audio-post (sound for TV) a lot as well. As far as I know its done by EQ and Early Reflections. Try this: Close your eyes. Have a friend talk to you in a 3 meters distance. Then let him walk really close to you (lets say 10-20cm distance) and talk. Listen to the difference in tonality. Thats what you have to do with your EQ. Its based on psychoacoustics, the way we localise sounds. It also works to a degree in the vertical plane. Listen to what your recorded vocal sounds like and then EQ it so it sounds like your friend talking up close. Mostly its boosting the high end and getting the upper mids just right. Then adjust the "reverb" for clarity. Work with Early Reflections to make the vocal more natural. Or try using very short delay instead of reverb. The trick here is to actually have no reverb tail at all. Make the vocal sound really dry. Listen to Kelly Clarkson-Behind those Hazel eyes. I think its done very well there in the verses.