Generic Dominant chords

[skiroy]

So Im a newbie to music but Im getting alot better. I have gotten pretty decent at coming up with chord progressions and the circle of fiths has been a major eye opener. I have gotten alright at making my chords prgression move in a intented direction, but Im still having issues with the 5 chord to pull back home. I can build 7th,9ths, and some what 11ths and 13ths chords all though they tend to sound a little to complex for hip hop sometimes, but sometimes I just like to play em. But whenever I get to the part of a progression where I want to go back home I play the dominant and it always sounds generic and corny to me.

Can anyone give some tips on dominant chords or how yall end your progressions. I like to play minor alot and somthing I learned is instead of playing the dominant you can just play that chord in minor. But thats about it.

[Chris Lago]

I keep it simple. Simple but good. No crazy chords, no funny stuff, just simple soothing music

[ButchP]

Originally Posted by skiroy

So Im a newbie to music but Im getting alot better. I have gotten pretty decent at coming up with chord progressions and the circle of fiths has been a major eye opener. I have gotten alright at making my chords prgression move in a intented direction, but Im still having issues with the 5 chord to pull back home. I can build 7th,9ths, and some what 11ths and 13ths chords all though they tend to sound a little to complex for hip hop sometimes, but sometimes I just like to play em. But whenever I get to the part of a progression where I want to go back home I play the dominant and it always sounds generic and corny to me.

Can anyone give some tips on dominant chords or how yall end your progressions. I like to play minor alot and somthing I learned is instead of playing the dominant you can just play that chord in minor. But thats about it.

I have NO idea how this would sit in a hip hop tune but here's a few ideas

Any altered dominant chord can be substituted for the key dominant(V chord)

an Altered dominant has
#5,#9
b5,b9

or any combination.

That leads to a b5 substitute.A chord an interval b5th away from a chord can be subed

Ex
Bb=E sub

A-F#-B-E-

b5 sub for E
A-F#-B-Bb

b5 sub for B

A-F#-F-E

b5 sub for F#
A-C-B-E

sub for F#,B,E

A-C-B-Bb

You can also preceded or follow any chord with it's b5 sub

One more....Doo Wop used the minor iv chord a lot (so did rock ...one of Lennon and Macca's fave device they pinched...erm...were influenced by... )

In reality... it's an altered dominant chord

ex
in C Major

I-vi-IV-V
C-ami-F-G

using the iv sub

I-Vi-IV-iv-
C-ami-F-fmi

notice iv is a sub for G(dominant)
f minor=F-Ab-C

which is a Gb9/11 without a root(1) or 3rd
F=7
Ab=b9
C=11

I know this is a lot of theory but it's just the explanation for what "sounds" are.They are applicable to all keys so the "thinking" is only done to "clarify" the result.

okay one more by "playing with the basic f minor.... alter only "1" note
F minor=F-Ab-C
Ab Major=Ab-C-Eb
D diminished=D-F-Ab

for "tight" voicing start with the "Ab" as lowest note. As you can hear and see there are many many possibilities All have been used before but Context is king!

[TREMORS]

Sometimes just changing the voicings and using inversions can help

[Larry Mal]

You know, there's no reason that you have to use dominant chords. Typically, though, they want to go from the Dominant (V) to the Tonic (I). This is due to the leading tone (the seventh) wanting to resolve to the tonic (the one).

That is, in G Major, the dominant is D, which is D-F#-A-C. The seven in G Major is the F#, which wants to resolve (almost always by going up in pitch) to G.

There is a certain amount of tension, though, in that chord, due to the F# and the C (C is a flatted fifth away from F#, the most dissonant interval there is).

So, you can just play D Major (D-F#-A) which sounds less dissonant, and have that go to G Major (G-B-D).

Seventh chords

[riteup3]

i have found that in many situations, suggesting the dominant chord by letting just the bass play the root only, helps with the "corniness".

sometimes just the major triad (no 7th) feels right

try also delaying the chord, playing it on the 1 and ....

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by ButchP

I have NO idea how this would sit in a hip hop tune but here's a few ideas

Any altered dominant chord can be substituted for the key dominant(V chord)

an Altered dominant has
#5,#9
b5,b9

or any combination.

That leads to a b5 substitute.A chord an interval b5th away from a chord can be subed

Ex
Bb=E sub

A-F#-B-E-

b5 sub for E
A-F#-B-Bb

b5 sub for B

A-F#-F-E

b5 sub for F#
A-C-B-E

sub for F#,B,E

A-C-B-Bb

You can also preceded or follow any chord with it's b5 sub

One more....Doo Wop used the minor iv chord a lot (so did rock ...one of Lennon and Macca's fave device they pinched...erm...were influenced by... )

In reality... it's an altered dominant chord

ex
in C Major

I-vi-IV-V
C-ami-F-G

using the iv sub

I-Vi-IV-iv-
C-ami-F-fmi

notice iv is a sub for G(dominant)
f minor=F-Ab-C

which is a Gb9/11 without a root(1) or 3rd
F=7
Ab=b9
C=11

I know this is a lot of theory but it's just the explanation for what "sounds" are.They are applicable to all keys so the "thinking" is only done to "clarify" the result.

okay one more by "playing with the basic f minor.... alter only "1" note
F minor=F-Ab-C
Ab Major=Ab-C-Eb
D diminished=D-F-Ab

for "tight" voicing start with the "Ab" as lowest note. As you can hear and see there are many many possibilities All have been used before but Context is king!

Ahh...a refreshing INTELLIGENT post on the HH forum...a rarity these days.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Ahh...a refreshing iNTELIGENT post on the HH forum...a rarity these days.

inteLLigent.

[bgrotto]

Changing the voicing around will make a difference. Try dropping the fifth.

You can also add some tensions; I happen to like 13ths, but it's always dependent on the melody.

You can also get all Herbie Hancock and use some 7sus4 chords. Basically, you just bump the third up a half-step. Check out the tune Maiden Voyage; HH does some really cool stuff with sus4 chords on that tune.

Also, there's other ways to resolve to I. For example, instead of the standard ii V7 I progression, you can substitute a flat-ii-diminished for the V chord, which makes a nice chromatic effect and offers up some really cool melodic possibilities.

Go buy a Fake Book (also sometimes called a Real Book) and study the progressions and listen to the voicings the composers use. That'll be the best way to open your ears.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Changing the voicing around will make a difference. Try dropping the fifth.

You can also add some tensions; I happen to like 13ths, but it's always dependent on the melody.

You can also get all Herbie Hancock and use some 7sus4 chords. Basically, you just bump the third up a half-step. Check out the tune Maiden Voyage; HH does some really cool stuff with sus4 chords on that tune.

Also, there's other ways to resolve to I. For example, instead of the standard ii V7 I progression, you can substitute a flat-ii-diminished for the V chord, which makes a nice chromatic effect and offers up some really cool melodic possibilities.

Go buy a Fake Book (also sometimes called a Real Book) and study the progressions and listen to the voicings the composers use. That'll be the best way to open your ears.

Maybe he should drop a fifth of Henny??

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Maybe he should drop a fifth of Henny??

Heh. Word.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Heh. Word.

or maybe some MD 20/20 for hip hop

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by ButchP

That leads to a b5 substitute.A chord an interval b5th away from a chord can be subed

Ex
Bb=E sub

A-F#-B-E-

b5 sub for E
A-F#-B-Bb

b5 sub for B

A-F#-F-E

b5 sub for F#
A-C-B-E

sub for F#,B,E

A-C-B-Bb

You can also preceded or follow any chord with it's b5 sub

!

Thankx that really helps alot. ONly one thing. I get you can use the b5 sub in place of any chord. But what would be the quality of the b5 chord.
For ex.


A-F#-B-E-

b5 sub for E
A-F#-B-Bb


That Bb sub is now being used as your Dominant chord, but would you play it as Bb7,BbM7 or Bbm7? Same question for if I were to use the b5 sub for a normally diantonically Major or minor chord in the key?

[ButchP]

Originally Posted by skiroy

Thankx that really helps alot. ONly one thing. I get you can use the b5 sub in place of any chord. But what would be the quality of the b5 chord.
For ex.


A-F#-B-E-

b5 sub for E
A-F#-B-Bb


That Bb sub is now being used as your Dominant chord, but would you play it as Bb7,BbM7 or Bbm7? Same question for if I were to use the b5 sub for a normally diantonically Major or minor chord in the key?

Thats the cool thing about b5 subs the chord sub can be of any quality,.THE MA7 IS MY FAVE!!

Did you notice you get a "falling chromatic "pattern when you use b5 subs?WHY! because they create the same tension -resolution that the progression a circle of 5ths does.

CHECK OUT HOW THE 5THS AND MINOR 2ND(CHROMATIC) CIRCLEs HAVE "SIMILARITIES"! of course this is all "theoriticaly mathish"...use your ear... spice to taste...

[riteup3]

yeah the tritone sub can be of any quality, it depends on how "blue" you want your melody to sound over that chord.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

or maybe some MD 20/20 for hip hop

Man that stuff's just battery acid with a bit of colouring...single biggest cause of ambulance callouts when I was a teen!

[jbrown1music]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Man that stuff's just battery acid with a bit of colouring...single biggest cause of ambulance callouts when I was a teen!

ahhhh thee old kiwi md 20/20 that i so revered thru high school. we called it moon juice

[RyanC]

Also don't limit yourself to chord progressions based on the I...

Take for example IV-III7-vi-v-I7. This is "just the two of us", or stevie wonder "as" or any time on a Fred Hammond song when they just start Jamin.

[lospat123]

still busy learning this theory stuff . hope i get the hang of it soon , feels like it will take forever.

[Lrmusic]

These guys have covered a lot of great stuff, but if you want something simple, keep in mind that you don't need to ever really explicitly state the V w/ chords; it can be implied by just playing it in the lowest voice:

Let me come up with an idea real quick to show you what I mean: