MPC 5000/Ableton LIve 8 working together?

[juan gris]

Hey i jut got an Mpc 5000. I used to work on ableton 8 before. But i'd like to kinda work on both at the same time.
Like using one for what the other can't do etc.... Anyone out there using this particular combo in their studios?
What you guys think would be the best to use out of each?
If creating a beat from A to Z (creation-production-mastering etc..) where would you start it on?
Thanks Slutz, i'm just trying to figure out how to get the best out of the whole thing

[KevWest]

what can your mpc do that live cant?

[F Major]

^ I would like to know this as well... it would help us help you.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by F Major

^ I would like to know this as well... it would help us help you.

I dont expect to get an answer back. Mpcs while they are great are really a thing of the past. They are too expensive to maintain and you can effectively do the same thing in software a lot faster and more easily.

[F Major]

Did you give up on your 2k Kev?

[KevWest]

Yes and no. when i bought it I didnt account for the price of parts if it would go down. Ive spent $100 on parts for fixing it and nothing has worked. The next part is $200 or sending it in to be looked at which more than likely will cost about that too. I've come to the conclusion its cheaper for me to just go back to using Reason since I never sold my license for it and I still have my mpd16 in the closet. My screen is flawless outside of the mpc not powering on its still seems brand new so I am going to sell the screen on ebay and then sell the rest of the mpc for parts and make a little profit lol.

[F Major]

People underestimate some of the hidden costs of the MPC...

[KevWest]

the hidden costs of hardware in general. It is much cheaper to just use software in the long and short term.

[juan gris]

well... my answer might not sound very professional, but i guess it's (to start with) a matter of taste.
i am very aware that what i am about to say will not be objective and it's my own personal approach.

It is not what i can do with my mpc and i can't do on ableton live that makes me like the mpc so much. It's the other way round. I like to use the Mpc because there's so many things that i can't do with it.
I like to be limited sometimes... endless possibilities like in most top of the list DAWs many times worked against me.
But then i like to work on both because at some point i do like and need the endless possiblities of my DAW, in this case ableton. I guess it's just about knowing according to your own working rhythm when to use one and not the other.

1 When i start a beat i like to do it to a metronome and without a big graphic device in front of me (computer lcd screen). This way all i see is the sounds i'm using and i don't get so evidently influenced by the imperfections of a quantize grill for example. This is a reason why i actually liked the fact that the screen on the mpc 5000 ain't as important as it is on the roland mv8000. which to many might be an advantage: this i respect.

2 Also the machine's own limits (RAM, Many steps to get to anything done, etc...) force me to prefilter my samples, programs and/or effects so when i work i have a limited amount of options to go through.
I guess i found limits to be a very useful source of inspiration compared to endless possibilities. of course as long as you know that the limits are your own decition and that you anhance them whenever you want.

3 i like to sample and time stretch on live.
4 i like to organize all the files i'm gonna use on the computer and test them on Live before i load them in my MPC

ETC.....;

So in general all my machines including hardware and computers are all linked. sometimes my computer does step a, the hardware step b and then
go back to the computer on step C
Actually i like to do pretty much everything technical on live.

I like to think of my machine as the machine used by many the people i admire the most same as with my software. I've found both pretty good on what they offer. I like to think of the fact of using them both as to not missing either the old school or the new school of music production.


SORRY IF THIS WAS TOO LONG AN ANSWER

[F Major]

Sounds like you only want to use Ableton for manipulating audio(Warping/Effects etc) and tracking out your MPC. In that case Ableton has MTC and Midi Clock available for you to sync the MPC once you get an idea going. would also be good to use Ableton Warp your samples before you further manipulate them with the MPC if you are into that sort of thing. Once you get your audio from the MPC into Ableton you can further manipulate your arrangement using the session view.

In my opinion you probably would have a similar but smoother workflow if you paired NI Maschine (Standalone) with Ableton Live 8. Your main thoughts are that you dont want to start off with a whole bunch of options and screens to look at, and thats exactly what NI Maschine in standalone mode would provide for you, the Ability to get a sequence/skeleton going instantly without overloading your senses with options. Once you have a skeleton in Maschine you can either export all the individual sounds/samples in one take, or you can load Maschine up as a plugin inside Ableton with your skeleton slaving to Ableton, No Additional tracking or setup of MTC/Midi Beat Clock involved.

[TitaniumG]

NEVER give up your MPC like people who are trying to find them self, keep your MPC and be your self.

[F Major]

Originally Posted by TitaniumG

NEVER give up your MPC like people who are trying to find them self, keep your MPC and be your self.

Strong words...you'd be surprised at who else has gone that route...that's all I'm gonna say.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by TitaniumG

NEVER give up your MPC like people who are trying to find them self, keep your MPC and be your self.

My mpc isnt about me being me. I started making beats in 2003. I've always owned Reason. Never would sell the license. But I always wanted a mpc 2000. I finally got one a couple days before christmas in 2009. On January 5th I got the ram upgrade for my mpc 2000. I installed the ram the mpc never turned on again and I have been trying to get it working again ever since. I don't see the purpose in spending hundreds of dollars to fix it when I only spent $350 on it. Would be better imo to just buy another one if I go that route. Or find one for parts

[Dor]

Originally Posted by KevWest

the hidden costs of hardware in general. It is much cheaper to just use software in the long and short term.

Until you need to drop cash on a new computer & software updates. Sounds like you messed up your MPC installing the ram upgrade or bought a bad one second hand.

D

[F Major]

Originally Posted by Dor

Until you need to drop cash on a new computer & software updates. Sounds like you messed up your MPC installing the ram upgrade or bought a bad one second hand.

D

But again those aren't exactly hidden costs, those are costs that come with using computers in general, regardless of the application.

[Nahuel]

A lot of ppl that started on software beleive there's some sort of magic in hw seq/samplers... personally I started with hw and my opinion is that software is much better, plain and simple... and I never understood the "limiations and no sceen help me focus on the music" argument... like watching the screen would distract you from the music...? I dont get it...I remeber when I was fighting with the microscopic screen trying to edit a drum roll on that fuking list on the mpc, that shit was a pain in the ass...I still got some ol samplers that I use to resample stuff, to add some gritt and an analog synth other than that I'm 100% software + controlers (well I got some hw audio gear but I'm taklking about "production" gear) and couldnt be more happy...MPC? a 60 or 3000 for the sound but a 5000? no thank you.

[F Major]

Originally Posted by lpuma

... and I never understood the "limiations and no sceen help me focus on the music" argument... like watching the screen would distract you from the music...? I dont get it...I remeber when I was fighting with the microscopic screen trying to edit a drum roll on that fuking list on the mpc, that shit was a pain in the ass...

Heres the problem with software.....there are no dedicated hardware controllers that give a user a 1-to-1 relationship between software tasks and a hardware button for most of the DAWs (exception is ableton). This means that when I want to do something like Quantize at a certain percentage, I have to either memorize a key command, Assign a key command or go into a menu on the screen and perform the task. If you dont have the luxury of having someone to setup a controller for you with labels and assignments to your most commonly used features, your music creating experience becomes a much more visual experience, and this is where the screen real estate becomes a disadvantage. I understand the argument, but for a guy using ableton, which is like the only other DAW besides PT with a true dedicated controller....the argument doesnt hold up as well since you have true dedicated controller choices.

[Nahuel]

I hear you, I've been using ableton for so long that I almost forgot about other DAWs, lol, but you're right, I dont have the dedicated controller yet, I just have a novation nocturn, I'll get the APC sooner or later... the hands on workflow is the only thing I miss from the MPC but I dont mind the mouse.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by Dor

Until you need to drop cash on a new computer & software updates. Sounds like you messed up your MPC installing the ram upgrade or bought a bad one second hand.

D

Im not denying that I did this to my mpc. But to upgrade a computer is cheap if you know what you are doing. Most of the time all you need is a motherboard processor and ram maybe a fan. All of those can be purchased for under the price of a new mpc. Hell for the same price of the parts to fix my mpc I can build up my pc and if you are tracking and mixing on a pc which I already am anyway Im going to see the pc upgrade and software upgrade costs regardless.

[juan gris]

i got the apc40 with which i am very happy. i've got the mpc 5000 with which i am very happy too.
I use both ableton LIve 8 and MPC 5000.

This thread is about how to make both worlds work to their best together.

I say if you can use them both (hardware and software) and multiply the potential of one with the other is great!
I think the problem is with people who think you gotta chose sides.... Why would anyone turn his back to either of them?
I don't think there's anyone fool enough to think there's a valid argument to put either hardware of software down. tutt

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by lpuma

I hear you, I've been using ableton for so long that I almost forgot about other DAWs, lol, but you're right, I dont have the dedicated controller yet, I just have a novation nocturn, I'll get the APC sooner or later... the hands on workflow is the only thing I miss from the MPC but I dont mind the mouse.

the mouse has always annoyed me during the creation process. I am a Reason user and its one of the few software programs I do like. I don't care for a lot of software programs. If I had a dedicated controller of sorts for Reason that made life stupidly simple with it I would probably never want another hardware piece again. The hands on feel is what makes me want hardware I don't mind the small screens on hardware or the big screens on computers

[TitaniumG]

Ok! I use both software Kore Player and Roland Fantom. The problems with software #1 loading sounds from the fantom one SEC, loading from software depending on the sound can take from 10 SEC to 30 sometimes more. If you are in the zone to bang out something that can be a vibe killer. I use software when i have time to fool around are when i am making stuff for video games or film. This is where software will kill the hardware no dumping but at that time vibes in not need.

[Nahuel]

Originally Posted by TitaniumG

Ok! I use both software Kore Player and Roland Fantom. The problems with software #1 loading sounds from the fantom one SEC, loading from software depending on the sound can take from 10 SEC to 30 sometimes more. If you are in the zone to bang out something that can be a vibe killer. I use software when i have time to fool around are when i am making stuff for video games or film. This is where software will kill the hardware no dumping but at that time vibes in not need.

you are talking about romplers here, the loading time on the mpc's is not as fast, I bet my PC is faster. BTW 10 to 30'' that's only for huge programs (that will blow most hw except kurzweil out of water, like the imperfect 17 layers baby grand), most of my kontak instruments load in something like 4''. softsynths load patches instantly.

[TitaniumG]

Yes! some do load in 4" and you and i know you do not use those ones. The ones that maters load in about 10" or more. The fantom is about say 5 years old or more and these VST-INS still can not sound as good to me and layering is not an option when these so-so sounding VST's CPU eaters load up. I do not have to watch my CPU on my MPC, Fantom or Motif I just bang away.

[Infamous]

Talking about drum machines (and not stealing the topic), what do you guys think about the Roland MV-8000 or MV-8800 ?

And comparing to the MPC4000?

[Nahuel]

Originally Posted by TitaniumG

Yes! some do load in 4" and you and i know you do not use those ones. The ones that maters load in about 10" or more. The fantom is about say 5 years old or more and these VST-INS still can not sound as good to me and layering is not an option when these so-so sounding VST's CPU eaters load up. I do not have to watch my CPU on my MPC, Fantom or Motif I just bang away.

dunno man, I like a lot of 4'' patches and I got plenty of CPU. not saying that the Fantom sound bad or anything but for 1000$ I'd rather get those LA scoring strings for kontakt. That's me, Sorry for the OT.

[TitaniumG]

I am about variety a Grand (1000$) for some string is not my thingtutt my fantom strings do what i want.

Back to the topic.

Ableton is ok but some things i am use to is missing like 1) comping 2) nudging 3) i do not like the MIDI or audio editor. I use Ableton for dumping my MPC 1000 tracks when i am on the road it lock to MIDI clock. YES! its ugly too.

[HazeBros]

One thing the mp does way better than todays software is to controll a bunch of a hardware and keep things tight.

[F Major]

Originally Posted by HazeBros

One thing the mp does way better than todays software is to controll a bunch of a hardware and keep things tight.

Agreed here.

[superville]

If you had a mpc wouldn't you be able to map out all your midi controls on ableton and use it like a midi controler/mpc anyways?