Ideal bouncing levels for individual tracks (prep for mixing)

[Ninja NVP]

Hi guys I have a question about bouncing levels when preparing a project for mixing, I've asked a few people and have received different answers so wanted to see if GearSlutz could provide clarity!

By 'bouncing levels' I'm talking about the levels of individual tracks when they are being recorded back in as audio (if using hardware) or 'bounced' if using software..

The main reason I want to know this is because as well as my own I am also mixing stems (individual tracks,wavs,seperates,parts) for clients and when they export (bounce) their individual parts as audio I currently ask them to reset the level faders on the tracks and to pull down any tracks that are as a result then in the 'red' to -3db (below 0db - in case there's another variant i'm not aware of )

So the question is...

When recording back in as audio should you try and get the maximum level from your synth? i.e push up the synth output and/or track fader.

If so...

- Does this provide a better signal to noise ratio??

- Make the signal healthier/better for mixing

- Save having to compensate (what you could have got) with make up gain later on (assuming you may need that part to be louder)

If not...

- Is it because you use up all available headroom?

- Change/alter the quality/harmonic content of the sound in a detrimental way

or any other reason..

Thank you in advance for your advice and feedback and please note that by 'Maximum level' I do not mean in the red or making things distort, simply getting what I can at that first gain stage.

[ncoak]

for digital shoot for peaks at -6 to -10 dbfs....all your questions are addressed in the famous The Reason Most ITB mixes don’t Sound as good as Analog mixes (restored) thread

[chris carter]

Anything you record (synths, vocals, VST instruments, etc.) shouldn't be hitting -18 to -12dBFS. When you consistently record above -12 two things happen: Most importantly the gain structure is completely messed up and the mix engineer is going to have to turn everything down. This is because it needs to be gain staged for outboard gear, plus plug-in effects generally will sound better as well. Second, when it comes to the converters, you generally start losing linearity when you start getting close to the top.

[Ninja NVP]

Thanks !!!

[Starshine]

Originally Posted by chris carter

Anything you record (synths, vocals, VST instruments, etc.) shouldn't be hitting -18 to -12dBFS. When you consistently record above -12 two things happen: Most importantly the gain structure is completely messed up and the mix engineer is going to have to turn everything down. This is because it needs to be gain staged for outboard gear, plus plug-in effects generally will sound better as well. Second, when it comes to the converters, you generally start losing linearity when you start getting close to the top.

yes but then you lose bit depth.

[Alxi]

Originally Posted by chris carter

Anything you record (synths, vocals, VST instruments, etc.) shouldn't be hitting -18 to -12dBFS. When you consistently record above -12 two things happen: Most importantly the gain structure is completely messed up and the mix engineer is going to have to turn everything down. This is because it needs to be gain staged for outboard gear, plus plug-in effects generally will sound better as well. Second, when it comes to the converters, you generally start losing linearity when you start getting close to the top.

I noticed on the last few mixes i did ( althought i'm mixing ITB ) that if i keep the sum of everything below -12dbfs on the masterbuss that i get a better balence faster and that i can push the mix higher afterwards if i what to do a pseudo mastering. Seems like the summing buss kinda compress things in a bad/weird way if i go above that and it also feels like i'm loosing some punch and seperation.

So yhea, great advice here

-Alxi

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by Starshine

yes but then you lose bit depth.

fine at 24bit.

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by Starshine

yes but then you lose bit depth.

First, if you are recording at 24bits and record at -12dBFS you are using 22 bits. That's TWENTY-TWO! Second, the digital noise floor of 24 bits is -144dB so if you record at -12dBFS you still have a signal to noise ratio of 132dB. That's ONE HUNDRED THIRTY TWO! Granted, if you are recording analog to digital you have the noise floor of the converter, but these days they are all very quiet and it's very likely that the noise from the keyboard, preamp, etc. is way higher (notwithstanding the fact that you lose linearity as you approach the last few dB on an A/D anyway).

Here's a simplified set of instructions for sending tracks to a mix engineer for mixing. It's simplified so it doesn't get into stuff like what level to record at. But nonetheless it's very useful. Chris 'Von Pimpenstein' Carter | producer * mixer * engineer | Millrace Entertainment

[Starshine]

Originally Posted by chris carter

First, if you are recording at 24bits and record at -12dBFS you are using 22 bits. That's TWENTY-TWO! Second, the digital noise floor of 24 bits is -144dB so if you record at -12dBFS you still have a signal to noise ratio of 132dB. That's ONE HUNDRED THIRTY TWO! Granted, if you are recording analog to digital you have the noise floor of the converter, but these days they are all very quiet and it's very likely that the noise from the keyboard, preamp, etc. is way higher (notwithstanding the fact that you lose linearity as you approach the last few dB on an A/D anyway).

Here's a simplified set of instructions for sending tracks to a mix engineer for mixing. It's simplified so it doesn't get into stuff like what level to record at. But nonetheless it's very useful. Chris 'Von Pimpenstein' Carter | producer * mixer * engineer | Millrace Entertainment

LOL

[Masterginxx]

Originally Posted by Starshine

LOL

...i think he's serious