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And so the MPC sleeps.... NI Maschine 1.5 Beta
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fn86
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2nd March 2010
Old 2nd March 2010
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And so the MPC sleeps.... NI Maschine 1.5 Beta

Yesterday, NI released the 1.5 beta update to Maschine.
Now with SP12- & MPC60-emulation.

From a thread in the betaforum:

No; it's pretty subtle, but the four settings emulate the output filters on channels 3,4,5 and 6 of the original SP1200 (Ch1 and Ch2 have enveloped filters and are not modelled; Ch7+8 have no output filter). From what I remember, they correspond approximately to low pass filters at something like 12, 14, 16 and 18khz (but the actual algorithm models the circuits exactly rather than just saying "let's stick a generic LPF on the output". All the outputs of the MPC60 are the same, so there is no option to select an output filter.

Easy choice.
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2nd March 2010
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Did you test it?
fn86
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I havent tested it yet, but ppl that has the real thing says its almost identical
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hope this means I can cop a sp-1200 cheap. thumbsup
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sweet.
Thinking about getting one
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What use of the static LPFs? what "curcuit" are they talking about?
and what MPC60 output? then the whole 60`s AD\DA chain should be modelled.
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Low key a lot of people dont want NI or any company in general to successfully model the sound of the SP-1200 because its been one of those Holy Grail items for a long time. My thoughts are that, the sound at some point will be modeled successfully soon, as we have been modeling guitar amps, analog synthesizers and other analog signal path/circuitry for quite some time now. It will just be a matter of whether you want to actually use the modeled version or not at some point.

I've played with the beta for some time now and Im convinced that this modeling is a good useful sound, even if it is not spot on to the SP-1200, the sound of this playback engine gives an immediate good vibe and doesnt sound anything like your common Digital bit crusher+LPF technique many people have tried to use.
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why would anyone want to model the SP's filters? i have a 1200 and have never noticed anything exceptional about the filters. Any EQ can do the same thing, I think. The only thing that really stands out to me is the sound of a sample when it's tuned really low. THAT is very distinct and unique to the SP machines.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof View Post
THAT is very distinct and unique to the SP machines.
12bit samplers like sp1200 and s950 will give u similar results. never found them to be that distinct beyond being and sounding 12bit. Something that you can recreate w/ filters and eq, or even sample reduction.

Gonna check Maschine. Seen NO I.D. killin it in the lab last year but there was some things missing that seem to be there now in the last few updates.
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Seems to be a huge of emphasis on the fashion, nostalgic element of music production gear at the moment, I wonder where it will head when everythings been cloned?

Manufacturers spent years trying to sell us the highest bit rates, now that's kind of peaked they are selling us 12-bit all over again
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F Major View Post
Low key a lot of people dont want NI or any company in general to successfully model the sound of the SP-1200 because its been one of those Holy Grail items for a long time. My thoughts are that, the sound at some point will be modeled successfully soon, as we have been modeling guitar amps, analog synthesizers and other analog signal path/circuitry for quite some time now. It will just be a matter of whether you want to actually use the modeled version or not at some point.
That is the truth. Even if you could get them to be absolutely exact, it would always be subject to debate. Even more ironic, people would still find an issue with the whole idea of NI made something that sounded like the sp1200 or other but better.
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I'm not concerned with the debate about authenticity, it would just be another interesting tool to try out. But I am under the impression that the character of old units sp12(00)/808 etc. varies from unit to unit. So you can have an 808, or you might have a 'great' 808. This would not be factored into an emulation would it? Or maybe I have been misled, and the unit variation theory is bs.
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3rd March 2010
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i'm out of the loop on maschine, can you import your own drums into it?
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The sp filters aren't even what makes it sound dope. I could care less for them. Everyone always sweats the filters. I wonder if most of these people have even used/owned one.

1-2 are really low passed (which can be adjusted with a pot inside the machine, but the attack slope is fixed, and doesn't work on everything. 3-4 aren't nearly as dramatic. 5-6 are less dramatic. and 7-8 are unfiltered. I usually use all the outputs in an unfiltered configuration.

And I am sorry but sampling into an sp and playing it back at the same speed you sampled is results in no OOOOO AHHHHH special sound.

The joy of the sp comes from the damage that is done when you pitch samples down.

The s950 filter is 10x more useful than the filters on an sp.

Yes, I own both.


Fooloof said it best.
Quote:
why would anyone want to model the SP's filters? i have a 1200 and have never noticed anything exceptional about the filters. Any EQ can do the same thing, I think. The only thing that really stands out to me is the sound of a sample when it's tuned really low. THAT is very distinct and unique to the SP machines.
I agree.


Quote:
12bit samplers like sp1200 and s950 will give u similar results.
I am sorry but pitched down samples (sampled at various bandwidths) in the s950 sound absolutely nothing like an sp-1200 when it is pitched down. The closest thing to it would be an EMAX and even that is not spot on.
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3rd March 2010
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On those old samplers changing pitch was done by changing the sample rate of the DA converters. So you really got a hardware pitch algorithm. Later on software algo's were used in samplers.

Don't know if this is the case for the SP series, but Fairlight and Emulators used this type of processing.
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re

I wouldnt say anybody's done a good job of emulating amps and synths yet. They're allright and easier to use but thats about it for my ear.
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if u dont want the mpc or the sp send them my way thanks. take them anyday above a pc crap. its not just about the sound but its about working at those machines that make ur work sound the way they do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HazeBros View Post
I wouldnt say anybody's done a good job of emulating amps and synths yet. They're allright and easier to use but thats about it for my ear.
....Now exiting the thread....
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Have the emulated how the SP effects drum hits when you overload the input while sampling? That's my favorite part of the SP sound.

D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lospat123 View Post
if u dont want the mpc or the sp send them my way thanks. take them anyday above a pc crap. its not just about the sound but its about working at those machines that make ur work sound the way they do.
You couldn't tell a difference between the boom bap beats I made on my mpc or the boom bap beats I did in Live 8.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
You couldn't tell a difference between the boom bap beats I made on my mpc or the boom bap beats I did in Live 8.
OT

I'm DL'ing the demo for Live right now based on hearing good things about it.

I'm a kinesthetic person, so I have trouble being creative and being inspired while working with software. I'm willing to give another piece of software a chance though.

Back on topic. Since there is an abundance of people like me, the MPC, SP, ASR, MV, etc. are most likely here to stay regardless of how good computer emulation gets.
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4th March 2010
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...hmm, anyone want my MPC 1000 now? lol

This is very good - I hope they keep updating it and bringing more too, Akai need to really step their game up a lil.
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Originally Posted by oldboy View Post
...hmm, anyone want my MPC 1000 now? lol

This is very good - I hope they keep updating it and bringing more too, Akai need to really step their game up a lil.
I just bought one. Just to be able to use a sequencer without the computer.
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I miss my maschine. I sold it and regret. I sold mines about 8 months ago,wayyy before all this great updates. Even then I had fun and made beats within minutes.

I do have a mpc 2000xl,but I dont really use it.I dont think I will sell it tho. I will be buying the maschine again in the future.
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My MPC never sleeps...
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Why are people going crazy over this want a be SP & MPC? My boy got one and the latency was killing him he came from a MPC 4000 and motif this is madness. He gave it back to the store and got his setup back. MAN! this is funny.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumG View Post
Why are people going crazy over this want a be SP & MPC? My boy got one and the latency was killing him he came from a MPC 4000 and motif this is madness. He gave it back to the store and got his setup back. MAN! this is funny.
what nwas he using for interface and computer ive never had any latency issues but then again i run a 32 buffer but 64 and 128 ar emore than workable
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5th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
The sp filters aren't even what makes it sound dope. I could care less for them. Everyone always sweats the filters. I wonder if most of these people have even used/owned one.

1-2 are really low passed (which can be adjusted with a pot inside the machine, but the attack slope is fixed, and doesn't work on everything. 3-4 aren't nearly as dramatic. 5-6 are less dramatic. and 7-8 are unfiltered. I usually use all the outputs in an unfiltered configuration.

And I am sorry but sampling into an sp and playing it back at the same speed you sampled is results in no OOOOO AHHHHH special sound.

The joy of the sp comes from the damage that is done when you pitch samples down.
They modeled this:

(Quoted from Thomas@NI)

The real SP1200's pitch range is just semitones from -12 to +6; the emulation responds to the corresponding pitch setting on page 2. By setting the pitch to whole numbers you should get a fairly accurate emulation (IIRC the range of the emulated resampling is a bit more than -12...+6, but beyond that it just uses standard repitching so -13 won't give you any more artifacts than -12). Sometimes you can get more grit (or slightly different artifacts) by tweaking the pitch between whole numbers so it's something like 2.74 or whatever, which you couldn't do with the SP1200.

Both emulation modes sound more bitcrushed if you sample something quiet and amplify afterwards.

(End Quote)

Personally I don't know how accurate it is but it sounds pretty cool. I'm loving the 1.5 BTW... The ability to zoom on the waveform and preview the sample slicing is awesome. Also in step mode you can easily adjust each hits velocity, pitch and timing with the volume/tempo/swing knobs which is sweet also.
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5th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
They modeled this:

(Quoted from Thomas@NI)

The real SP1200's pitch range is just semitones from -12 to +6; the emulation responds to the corresponding pitch setting on page 2. By setting the pitch to whole numbers you should get a fairly accurate emulation (IIRC the range of the emulated resampling is a bit more than -12...+6, but beyond that it just uses standard repitching so -13 won't give you any more artifacts than -12). Sometimes you can get more grit (or slightly different artifacts) by tweaking the pitch between whole numbers so it's something like 2.74 or whatever, which you couldn't do with the SP1200.

Both emulation modes sound more bitcrushed if you sample something quiet and amplify afterwards.

(End Quote)

Personally I don't know how accurate it is but it sounds pretty cool. I'm loving the 1.5 BTW... The ability to zoom on the waveform and preview the sample slicing is awesome. Also in step mode you can easily adjust each hits velocity, pitch and timing with the volume/tempo/swing knobs which is sweet also.

Thank you so much for clearing this up seriously.
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