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Whats the legal situation of using others beats on a mixtape?
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#31
21st February 2010
Old 21st February 2010
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talontsiawd View Post
People can't really do anything if you arn't making money. It just isn't worth there time.

Don't get me wrong, alot of people will flip out, talk shit and get very mad but that doesn't mean they can really do anything. I know some dudes will try to destroy your myspace or whatever you would be doing to promote it online but that is about all they can do.

That doesn't make it legal at all (nor OK in my mind) but not much can be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensai View Post
if your not making any money off of it your fine.
This is some REALLY bad advice.

Here's the real scoop:
If you use copyrighted material without permission, you can be sued. Period. If that copyrighted material was not registered within 3 months of publication, they can only sue you for an injunction and actual damages. In your case, that may equate to an injunction and $0.

But if they registered their copyright within 3 months of publication, they can come after you for statutory copyright damages. Those damages range from $750 to $30,000 per infringement. If the infringement is deemed to be willful, the maximum goes up to $150,000 per infringement.

Yes, the fact that you are using it for a free mix tape can be raised as part of a "fair use" defense, but the fact that you are not profiting WILL NOT prevent you from being sued. So, if you want to risk $150,000 + legal fees...well, that's the territory you're in.
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#32
21st February 2010
Old 21st February 2010
  #32
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I've never heard of anyone being sued because of free mixtapes. I've never even heard of anyone getting an angry email, even if the mixtape had well known pop hits. I'm pretty sure record labels have a policy of not hunting down mixtape artists, if they did I'm sure I'd had heard of it during my 10 years of dj'ing.
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#33
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
  #33
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Damn, people are still making mixtapes
#34
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
I've never heard of anyone being sued because of free mixtapes. I've never even heard of anyone getting an angry email, even if the mixtape had well known pop hits. I'm pretty sure record labels have a policy of not hunting down mixtape artists, if they did I'm sure I'd had heard of it during my 10 years of dj'ing.
The question was "what's the legal situation"? The legal situation is as I stated. Whether experience has shown that the labels take action/don't take action, if anything, only tells you about your likelihood of getting sued. Fact is, they can sue you.

The law is as I stated. I'm a lawyer, not a bookie. If you want to talk probabilities, your guess is as good as mine. But if you want to know what can happen...that's what can happen.
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#35
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdadactyl View Post
The question was "what's the legal situation"? The legal situation is as I stated. Whether experience has shown that the labels take action/don't take action, if anything, only tells you about your likelihood of getting sued. Fact is, they can sue you.

The law is as I stated. I'm a lawyer, not a bookie. If you want to talk probabilities, your guess is as good as mine. But if you want to know what can happen...that's what can happen.
Whats the difference between rapping over a beat and putting it out for free online and uploading someones music online for everyone to download for free without even touching it?
#36
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedreamz View Post
Whats the difference between rapping over a beat and putting it out for free online and uploading someones music online for everyone to download for free without even touching it?

cuz at the end of the day all im doing is putting his music out for free...with some extra vocals on it

if they can go after me they can go after anyone who puts all this music online
That's right. And that's what all of the RIAA file sharing lawsuits were about.

To answer your question more technically, the difference between the two is that you are creating an unauthorized "derivative work" AND distributing copyrighted material. Making unchanged mp3's available for other people to download is just unauthorized distribution.
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#37
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdadactyl View Post
That's right. And that's what all of the RIAA file sharing lawsuits were about.

To answer your question more technically, the difference between the two is that you are creating an unauthorized "derivative work" AND distributing copyrighted material. Making unchanged mp3's available for other people to download is just unauthorized distribution.
Such a sad ego-tistical world.

I wouldnt give two shits if someone was distributing my work without permission....its art...

Its as if we should pay albert einsteins family everytime we read one of his quotes online and get inspired..

Those were the true artists of the world...
artists we have today are nothing compared to them..and it even shows thru their works.


but what do I know? im the same guy that feels there shouldnt even BE a music "business." I mean of course mixing engineers and stuff should be paid for their services and artists should be paid for live shows...but as far as copies of your work? Let that shit go. I mean we've just been driven since the day of the first recordings to feel that its OUR PROPERTY!!! Lol

one day
#38
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
  #38
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I find it completely ridiculous that people on this forum are actually having a conversation about intentions to steal people's music for mixtapes. Something which is so clearly ilegal it's just plain funny. Everybody with half a brain knows it's ilegal. Do that many people get taken down for it? No. Do I know of cases where mixtapers have been nailed? Yes. But I also know a lot of attorneys so I've heard lots of stories. But the fact is, it's ilegal.

So why is it that when someone posts about cracked ilegal software, everyone jumps on them. But when someone talks about stealing music, nobody cares? I mean, shit, WE ARE MUSIC MAKERS for god's sake. Why in the WORLD would we want to steal from eachother??

The bottom line is this: ask. If they say okay, then it's okay - it's THEIR music. If they say no, then don't do it.

And for the record, I don't know how it's been working the past few years becuase last time I ran a record label ended in 2006. But the big mixtape guys (the ones who just put songs together, not rapping over stolen instrumentals) DID have permission from the labels. We'd GIVE them the music and ask them to put it out there. It's not like the big dogs were doing it behind our backs.

I mean seriously, how big of a dick does someone have to be to not ask?
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#39
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
I find it completely ridiculous that people on this forum are actually having a conversation about intentions to steal people's music for mixtapes. Something which is so clearly ilegal it's just plain funny. Everybody with half a brain knows it's ilegal. Do that many people get taken down for it? No. Do I know of cases where mixtapers have been nailed? Yes. But I also know a lot of attorneys so I've heard lots of stories. But the fact is, it's ilegal.

So why is it that when someone posts about cracked ilegal software, everyone jumps on them. But when someone talks about stealing music, nobody cares? I mean, shit, WE ARE MUSIC MAKERS for god's sake. Why in the WORLD would we want to steal from eachother??

The bottom line is this: ask. If they say okay, then it's okay - it's THEIR music. If they say no, then don't do it.

And for the record, I don't know how it's been working the past few years becuase last time I ran a record label ended in 2006. But the big mixtape guys (the ones who just put songs together, not rapping over stolen instrumentals) DID have permission from the labels. We'd GIVE them the music and ask them to put it out there. It's not like the big dogs were doing it behind our backs.

I mean seriously, how big of a dick does someone have to be to not ask?
I see you. I never said im not going to ask. If they yes when I ask, but we dont make an agreement...can they nail me for it in the future since we dont have anything in writing?
#40
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedreamz View Post
I see you. I never said im not going to ask. If they yes when I ask, but we dont make an agreement...can they nail me for it in the future since we dont have anything in writing?
I want to be clear that I am not giving you legal advice here. You need to figure this one out with your lawyer.

BUT...if I were the copyright owner's lawyer and he came to me and said "sue this guy," I would argue that your actions in first coming to him, then having him say no, THEN going and doing it anyway would support a finding of willful infringement. I'd go after the max.

And why do you need a writing to say that there's no agreement? Even more...why do they need a writing between you and the copyright owner when they could just print out this thread, stick it in front of you at a deposition and then ask you whether you'd like to settle or put the same print out in front of a jury.
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#41
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdadactyl View Post
I want to be clear that I am not giving you legal advice here. You need to figure this one out with your lawyer.

BUT...if I were the copyright owner's lawyer and he came to me and said "sue this guy," I would argue that your actions in first coming to him, then having him say no, THEN going and doing it anyway would support a finding of willful infringement. I'd go after the max.

And why do you need a writing to say that there's no agreement? Even more...why do they need a writing between you and the copyright owner when they could just print out this thread, stick it in front of you at a deposition and then ask you whether you'd like to settle or put the same print out in front of a jury.


Answer this one.

Why is that when two rappers are beefin...and they use each others beats to diss each other and release it online...none of the camps sue each other? Happens a lot more than you may think...Im not talking just about Nas vs Jay z or Game vs 50 cent. Im talking about small time acts I knew in houston that were gettin in some stupid beefs....using each others singles' instrumentals to record diss tracks and release them online. And its not like they refrain from legal shit cuz of street cred or anything like that..some of these ppl are dirt poor and could use that 150k ur speaking of...

Im not disrespecting your opinion, i just have a feeling that what youre saying doesnt fly anymore in this internet age. I actually have met some of those ppl along the way and can inform them of your services if youre saying you can pull out that much money for them thru a lawsuit. get at me
#42
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedreamz View Post


Answer this one.

Why is that when two rappers are beefin...and they use each others beats to diss each other and release it online...none of the camps sue each other? Happens a lot more than you may think...Im not talking just about Nas vs Jay z or Game vs 50 cent. Im talking about small time acts I knew in houston that were gettin in some stupid beefs....using each others singles' instrumentals to record diss tracks and release them online. And its not like they refrain from legal shit cuz of street cred or anything like that..some of these ppl are dirt poor and could use that 150k ur speaking of...

Im not disrespecting your opinion, i just have a feeling that what youre saying doesnt fly anymore in this internet age. I actually have met some of those ppl along the way and can inform them of your services if youre saying you can pull out that much money for them thru a lawsuit. get at me
whether people actually get sued or not is not the point, as stated a few posts back.

what this guy (who apparently is a lawyer who deals in this kind of thing) is telling you is absolutely true. just like sampling any copyrighted music, even just a millisecond - detuned 1000 semitones and run through a talk box up your ass, is technically illegal. it's really not something you can argue, 'opinions' don't come into play.

whether someone decides to sue or not is up to them. if the end result is just an injunction because they're not making money, it's probably not worth the time or effort. using copyrighted material without permission opens you up to legal action. end of story.
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#43
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncoak View Post
whether people actually get sued or not is not the point, as stated a few posts back.

what this guy (who apparently is a lawyer who deals in this kind of thing) is telling you is absolutely true. just like sampling any copyrighted music, even just a millisecond - detuned 1000 semitones and run through a talk box up your ass, is technically illegal. it's really not something you can argue, 'opinions' don't come into play.

whether someone decides to sue or not is up to them. if the end result is just an injunction because they're not making money, it's probably not worth the time or effort. using copyrighted material without permission opens you up to legal action. end of story.
I really do understand what youre saying.

Im not trying to steal someones work and rap on it at the expense of my artistic integrity. I just wanted some simple info about what the deal was with this. Seems that I'll be alright if I just ask permission from the owner of the tracks just so they dont wanna come ruin my name.

Thanks for your posts guys. Now how do i delete this shit? Or lock it or something, my question has been answered.
#44
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncoak View Post
whether people actually get sued or not is not the point...[S]ampling any copyrighted music...is technically illegal. it's really not something you can argue, 'opinions' don't come into play.

whether someone decides to sue or not is up to them.
Bingo!

OP, you wanted to know "the legal situation." That's what it is. Period. The "Internet age" hasn't changed anything. Only Congress can change those things...and they haven't.

If someone wants to sue you, they can. If they don't, they won't. If they sue you, that doesn't necessarily mean they win. But they might. If two rappers want to air their "beefs" by using each other's beats, it's their call how to handle it. There's way too much law to go into every possibility. (For example, those beefing rappers may claim fair use in the form of a parody.) Bottom line, ncoak summed it up pretty well. That's the situation. You (and your lawyer if you want to talk to one) need to decide how to move within the confines of that "situation."

PS - I'm not claiming that I can or will get $x for anyone. Just stating what the statute says. Also factor in that every dispute is not necessarily worth a lawsuit and every person may not even see the situation as a "dispute." Maybe they'd be flattered. But da facts is what da facts is.
#45
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
I find it completely ridiculous that people on this forum are actually having a conversation about intentions to steal people's music for mixtapes.

So why is it that when someone posts about cracked ilegal software, everyone jumps on them. But when someone talks about stealing music, nobody cares?... WE ARE MUSIC MAKERS for god's sake. Why in the WORLD would we want to steal from eachother??

The bottom line is this: ask. If they say okay, then it's okay - it's THEIR music. If they say no, then don't do it.
This really sums up a excellent point. I don't give away my art especially if it's my livelihood. If it's good art then people should be willing to pay for it. The elitist attitude that says things like:

Quote:
Such a sad ego-tistical world.

I wouldnt give two ***** if someone was distributing my work without permission....its art...im the same guy that feels there shouldnt even BE a music "business."
...thinking that somehow that makes them more of an artist is the most ridiculous, idiotic thing I've ever heard. If we take this to it's logical conclusion, then every one would be giving everything away. Never mind the fact that people are being inspired at my expense or may actually be using my music to make a profit but I shouldn't be allowed to do the same. Not only is this this flower child mind set naive, it's just plain stupid. It cheapens the art and damages the industry as a whole.

Turdadactyl just hit the nail on the head. Thanks for the great advice my man.
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#46
15th April 2010
Old 15th April 2010
  #46
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If your doing it for a free mixtape, dont worry, if your driving a truck around the world and have a commercial done thats when you should probably worry.
#47
15th April 2010
Old 15th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolt45 View Post
If your doing it for a free mixtape, dont worry, if your driving a truck around the world and have a commercial done that's when you should probably worry.
Whether the material is being sold, lent, leased, or offered for free, it's still copyright infringement and would entitle the owner of the copyright to potential damages per infringement. It's not just $150,000 per song. Each distributed copy, each instance of distribution, each copy that you pressed is a separate instance of copyright infringement. And making a profit doesn't matter a lick.
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#48
15th April 2010
Old 15th April 2010
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedreamz View Post
I see you. I never said im not going to ask. If they yes when I ask, but we dont make an agreement...can they nail me for it in the future since we dont have anything in writing?
Aren't you on a label? Can they not answer these questions and help you with this?
#49
17th April 2010
Old 17th April 2010
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedreamz View Post
..looks like im just gonna drop dude a line and then just mention him in the liner notes
its a good thing my kids learnt how to build shelter out of liner notes, and then eat them for breakfast. good job.
#50
20th April 2010
Old 20th April 2010
  #50
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well....

i am VHERBAL of ANNO DOMINI BEATS from soundclick

yeah the place you go to steal beats haha

and i can put this to rest for good

1. We have sued people before for infringment, and won
2. We have suits pending
3. The point of a mixtape is it was for promo use if u sell it your breaking the law
4. U need to at the very least purchase a non-exclusive license to legally sell your song made to our beats and then u are permitted to sell up to 5000 units before the terms must be renegotiated
5. Even when you purchase a nonexclusive license we retain or publishing rights to the works

so....to sum it up

it takes money to make money...

just keep in mind most "ill" producers make music as a sole base of income (me for example) and when you STEAL there material and profit it from it yourself thats just wrong...you obviously were interested in the beat haha

the truth is nonexclusive licenses are SOOOOOO CHEAPP sometimes (i just had a 10 for 150 sale) its stupid not to buy it then u can do it with a clear conscious...and also us at anno domini offer other services music related strictly to clients of our beats which is even more incentive to do id think

honestly i know there are probably 5k plus songs being sold as we speak to beats of mine that werent paid for....its hard to police...but we have a LARGE following and people tend to tip us off on things like this (beat snitches haha)

and i cant even begin to tell you how much money ive spent between schooling, gear, studio expenses etc over the years and just now once im getting more placements and such im coming out of the red...

so the answer is you can definitely get into trouble for selling music illegally but before that happens really think about how petty your being and as in every other business venture it takes money to make money

here i can give you another example as to why you should buy beats...

an artist i work with had 2 completed projects mixed mastered all that...reall ill stuff...a label contacted him and wanted to pick the projects up...when it came time for credits etc they found he had stolen all the beats..and those two classic albums he had are basically useless

TRUE STORY

peace

you can check us out at VBeatz | Hip-Hop | Instrumentals | Vherbal and SoundClick artist: Anno Domini Beats - Your No. 1 Source for REAL Hip Hop Beats and FREE MP3 Downloads - WWW.ANNODOMINIBEATS.COM
#51
21st April 2010
Old 21st April 2010
  #51
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nice beats domoni!!
#52
21st April 2010
Old 21st April 2010
  #52
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People always say, "I'm not selling it. It will be free on the internet."

That's some bullshit because even if you don't sell it, you are getting promotion which costs money.

If I'm a graphic designer, is it ok to take my work and use it to promote your store because people don't pay for your ads?


Fusk dat!
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#53
21st April 2010
Old 21st April 2010
  #53
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If you're using major label/ big name beats and you're giving it away for free, no one's gonna give two squirts.
#54
21st April 2010
Old 21st April 2010
  #54
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Here's a thought, get some real skills and make an ORIGINAL album.

Mixtapes are a joke to me. Especially the one's put out by "major label" 'talent', which in itself is a joke.
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