Producing Talent

[CRACKPIPE]

How many of you "beat makers" try and shape your talent?

I just went in on a rapper I'm working with for his "baggie daddies". The kids will roast you for dressing like their parents and they are the market. I told him he needs a stylist, clothing sponsor, etc. This is LA and that's how we roll.

I feel bad because dude is put together pretty well for 2008 but this is 2010. Style has always been important in hip-hop but I kind of feel like an A&R or something.

At my level of the game (barely in the building), I feel like the more I ensure my artists success, the more i insure mine.

Discuss unless this topic is off limits in a gear forum. Thnks.

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

How many of you "beat makers" try and shape your talent?

I just went in on a rapper I'm working with for his "baggie daddies". The kids will roast you for dressing like their parents and they are the market. I told him he needs a stylist, clothing sponsor, etc. This is LA and that's how we roll.

I feel bad because dude is put together pretty well for 2008 but this is 2010. Style has always been important in hip-hop but I kind of feel like an A&R or something.

At my level of the game (barely in the building), I feel like the more I ensure my artists success, the more i insure mine.

Discuss unless this topic is off limits in a gear forum. Thnks.

A beat maker don't shape talent and never did. That's what a producer does. A producer can be a beat maker as well but not vice versa. That's why 99% of the radio music suck today because there is less production and more beats being sold. Artist and sound develop is key to making a classic album but is not necessary for making money, as you all see today which is preposterous at best.

[bgrotto]

This is exactly what's wrong with music in general, and hip hop in particular.

Focus on making some ****ing music, for chrissakes!!

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

This is exactly what's wrong with music in general, and hip hop in particular.

Focus on making some ****ing music, for chrissakes!!

The music is already there, trust , but it's naive to think you can have commercial success looking like a bum.

I've always wanted to be more than a "beat maker" I want to work with talent and shape our sound. I have insight but the hard part is getting people with strong egos to trust that.

My main priority is our sound, it's music and there is too much image driven bullshit, but this is the playing field.

[CRACKPIPE]

How much do you criticize your artists? The same thing goes with music. The Verse is there but the hook doesn't quite go. They think it's the best thing they created, but it lacks something. Are you comfortable communicating this to them?

[hereadawtheradaw]

haha, YESSH, all rappers must wear skinny jeanz 2 or that will not sell records, in fact, all rap albums must have skinny jeanz in there cover let's name all rap albums "skinny jeanz and a _______"

and when the next fag fad comes along quickly switch 2 that 2 sell records! noone will notice!

put down da crackpipe bra

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by hereadawtheradaw

haha, YESSH, all rappers must wear skinny jeanz 2 or that will not sell records, in fact, all rap albums must have skinny jeanz in there cover let's name all rap albums "skinny jeanz and a _______"

and when the next fag fad comes along quickly switch 2 that 2 sell records! noone will notice!

put down da crackpipe bra

Wears baggies^^^^ haha!!

That's not what I'm recommending bro. But that's funny. Just updating a little.

[DaKid]

I personally would never give "fashion" advice to someone who is paying me to record them.

[phillysoulman]

Imho,these days the term "producing talent" has become an oxymoron.
Just sayin'

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Imho,these days the term "producing talent" has become an oxymoron.
Just sayin'

So jaded. hahaa!

The talent IS the producer ha!

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by DaKid

I personally would never give "fashion" advice to someone who is paying me to record them.

Well it sounds like you are the engineer, so good, that's not your place, haha!

I kinda assumed there were some people here that are actually producing people but in reality that's a skill that is not common. Mostly recording engineers, mixers, and "beat makers".

Anyway, the topic is more along the lines of: How do you or do you suggest things to big ego people.

[ShadowBoxer]

I think its best not to assume anything as opportunities come along for everyone to sway one way or another from time to time.
I am well aware that a video on youtube with a visual representation for my music is far stronger than music alone nowdays in a visual media world.
So yes a strong or defined image for an artiste is important.
But I dont think a lot of budget has to be used.
Eminiem for example and Ice Cube just wore cheap tackies as that was their reality.
Thats Hip Hop ''inner city life''
And nowdays in a world of idiots killing the ''real'' music industry value like SImon Cowell I think people respect real and independant musicians moe than ever rather than 7 11 style mass produced shite with mega budgets.
Who is to say that its your ego thats the problem not theirs as they have a strong self identity where as you just dont get it perhaps because you cant get over your own ego?
I think the point is anyone you gel with will have their own image and the only ego you need to consearn yourself with is the one you are tossing off perhaps and myself like wise lol.
The music talks the bullshit walks keep your ears on the ball.
Just my thoughts anyway!!

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by ShadowBoxer

I think its best not to assume anything as opportunities come along for everyone to sway one way or another from time to time.
I am well aware that a video on youtube with a visual representation for my music is far stronger than music alone nowdays in a visual media world.
So yes a strong or defined image for an artiste is important.
But I dont think a lot of budget has to be used.
Eminiem for example and Ice Cube just wore cheap tackies as that was their reality.
Thats Hip Hop ''inner city life''
And nowdays in a world of idiots killing the ''real'' music industry value like SImon Cowell I think people respect real and independant musicians moe than ever rather than 7 11 style mass produced shite with mega budgets.
Who is to say that its your ego thats the problem not theirs as they have a strong self identity where as you just dont get it perhaps because you cant get over your own ego?
I think the point is anyone you gel with will have their own image and the only ego you need to consearn yourself with is the one you are tossing off perhaps and myself like wise lol.
The music talks the bullshit walks keep your ears on the ball.
Just my thoughts anyway!!

Great points. I glad you picked up on the ego of the producer being a factor. 2 strong minded, artistic perspectives, motives. The idea is to have a rapport with who your working with to be able to communicate honestly and give criticism without having to pull out the kleenex. Producer needs to be able to take it from the artist as well. (ayo) haha

[ShadowBoxer]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

Great points. I glad you picked up on the ego of the producer being a factor. 2 strong minded, artistic perspectives, motives. The idea is to have a rapport with who your working with to be able to communicate honestly and give criticism without having to pull out the kleenex. Producer needs to be able to take it from the artist as well. (ayo) haha

IO think you have missed my point or without the ego I have failed to express myself clearly.
Perhaps no effort is required when two people get together and create it just flows.
Producers take care of the music foremost.
Study some of your previous production contracts with record labels or management you have worked with.
Where is the fashion clause?
I think you are crossing over into mangement/Label territory.
Most musicians are self styled and that will gel naturally and not even raise issue for you.
Otherwise move on whilst asking yourself what it is you want to achieve rahter than judging others.
Some producers are also engineers but it dont make them any less of the other whole or half.
Or does it lol?
The Kleenex quip is ego by the way and not for you to say if someone wishes to cry about their emotions but my own ego felt it necessary to inform you of that wrongly.
Why even indulge in the false self indulgence if critsism of another.
Your wrong dont mean its right and their right dont mean your wrong lol.
If it works it works otherwise **** it.

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by ShadowBoxer

IO think you have missed my point or without the ego I have failed to express myself clearly.
Perhaps no effort is required when two people get together and create it just flows.
Producers take care of the music foremost.
Study some of your previous production contracts with record labels or management you have worked with.
Where is the fashion clause?
I think you are crossing over into mangement/Label territory.
Most musicians are self styled and that will gel naturally and not even raise issue for you.
Otherwise move on whilst asking yourself what it is you want to achieve rahter than judging others.
Some producers are also engineers but it dont make them any less of the other whole or half.
Or does it lol?
The Kleenex quip is ego by the way and not for you to say if someone wishes to cry about their emotions but my own ego felt it necessary to inform you of that wrongly.

Lol. Dr. Phil... Don't take that personal. That's my ego making jokes. I'm not downplaying the engineer. Having those skills only helps a producer, but being an engineer does not make the producer.

So it seems some think I'm out of line to suggest an amazing emcee look into updating his look in order to market himself to a wider audience? If I'm producing the talent, I have a say sonically what goes down, why is it so controversial to suggest visual aspects to the act.

Maybe it is some managerial crossover but I have a vision and he can get with it or not. So far he is. Just an interesting topic but go ahead and make assumptions about me. e

Thanks for clearing that up though. No sarcasm.

And realize this is a spec deal I'm talking about.

[DaKid]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

Well it sounds like you are the engineer, so good, that's not your place, haha!

I kinda assumed there were some people here that are actually producing people but in reality that's a skill that is not common. Mostly recording engineers, mixers, and "beat makers".

Anyway, the topic is more along the lines of: How do you or do you suggest things to big ego people.

What exactly do you mean by "producing people"?

I mean, I've worked with artists and I'll be the "beat maker", record and mix the product and give my input on every stage of the process.... but I never really felt the need to say, "Hey. Great job on that song. It's hot....but... if you want to take it to the next level... uh...well.... Those sneakers gotta go."

I guess I can see what you're saying by a rapper should be presentable to the public eye, but I don't really think what you look like will have an affect on your career (in a negative way I should say....unless you're the icy hot stuntaz...and even then there image is why they ever got attention..haha). If your music is hot, people will buy it. Susan Boyle, while not hip hop in any way, looks like she fell out the fugly tree and hit every hot damn branch on the way down..... but her album sold the most first week copies for an artists' debut album since Snoop's Doggystyle in 93.....Hmmm... maybe you should start having your artists dress like Susan.....

[ShadowBoxer]

Originally Posted by DaKid

What exactly do you mean by "producing people"?

I mean, I've worked with artists and I'll be the "beat maker", record and mix the product and give my input on every stage of the process.... but I never really felt the need to say, "Hey. Great job on that song. It's hot....but... if you want to take it to the next level... uh...well.... Those sneakers gotta go."

I guess I can see what you're saying by a rapper should be presentable to the public eye, but I don't really think what you look like will have an affect on your career (in a negative way I should say). If your music is hot, people will buy it. Susan Boyle, while not hip hop in any way, looks like she fell out the fugly tree and hit every hot damn branch on the way down..... but her album sold the most first week copies for an artists' debut album since Snoop's Doggystyle in 93.....Hmmm... maybe you should start having your artists dress like Susan.....

LOL you got me there stand up quality lines lol.
''Hit every branch on the way down''
Seriously though its one of those subjective things insnt it?

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by ShadowBoxer

LOL you got me there stand up quality lines lol.
''Hit every branch on the way down''
Seriously though its one of those subjective things insnt it?

Of course it is. That's why I'm putting that out there. Not looking for advice, just subjective perspective.

In my case the artist and I really gel, just felt a little uncomfortable criticizing something so superficial, yet so important. He respects my perspective and that's all I ask. Not trying to control anyone but collaboration takes bending both ways.

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by DaKid

What exactly do you mean by "producing people"?

I mean, I've worked with artists and I'll be the "beat maker", record and mix the product and give my input on every stage of the process.... but I never really felt the need to say, "Hey. Great job on that song. It's hot....but... if you want to take it to the next level... uh...well.... Those sneakers gotta go."

I guess I can see what you're saying by a rapper should be presentable to the public eye, but I don't really think what you look like will have an affect on your career (in a negative way I should say....unless you're the icy hot stuntaz...and even then there image is why they ever got attention..haha). If your music is hot, people will buy it. Susan Boyle, while not hip hop in any way, looks like she fell out the fugly tree and hit every hot damn branch on the way down..... but her album sold the most first week copies for an artists' debut album since Snoop's Doggystyle in 93.....Hmmm... maybe you should start having your artists dress like Susan.....

I don't know, but maybe I'm trying to start a hip-hop boy band. I have the vision, the songs, etc.

I want my artists to dress like themselves. just keep it fresh. If I'm investing time in a spec deal then I have a stake in wether I think their image is sellable.

I'm trying to hook up some clothing sponsorship deals, which would help.

In the age of 360 deals, mp3 stealing, etc, you gotta think of new ways to get paid for doing what you love.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

I don't know, but maybe I'm trying to start a hip-hop boy band. I have the vision, the songs, etc.

I want my artists to dress like themselves. just keep it fresh. If I'm investing time in a spec deal then I have a stake in wether I think their image is sellable.

I'm trying to hook up some clothing sponsorship deals, which would help.

In the age of 360 deals, mp3 stealing, etc, you gotta think of new ways to get paid for doing what you love.

This is all cool, but get one thing straight: this is NOT producing, by any definition of the word ("hip hop" or otherwise).

There are image consultants, there are managers, there are publicists, and there are RECORD PRODUCERS. And there are people that do a bit of each (people like you!!), but when you're telling an artist what color t-shirt to wear or whatever, you are NOT acting as a producer.

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

This is all cool, but get one thing straight: this is NOT producing, by any definition of the word ("hip hop" or otherwise).

There are image consultants, there are managers, there are publicists, and there are RECORD PRODUCERS. And there are people that do a bit of each (people like you!!), but when you're telling an artist what color t-shirt to wear or whatever, you are NOT acting as a producer.

Gotcha! haha. Outside my job description. I'll focus on the music and hire stylists to worry about that shit. Some ones gotta do it tho, lol.

Don't wanna wear too many hats. The music already takes 16 hours a day. Too much ambition.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

Gotcha! haha. Outside my job description. I'll focus on the music and hire stylists to worry about that shit. Some ones gotta do it tho, lol.

Don't wanna wear too many hats. The music already takes 16 hours a day. Too much ambition.

Not saying you can't/shouldn't go shoe shopping with your artist (), just saying that definitely does NOT fall under the umbrella of "what a producer does/should do".

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Not saying you can't/shouldn't go shoe shopping with your artist (), just saying that definitely does NOT fall under the umbrella of "what a producer does/should do".

YO AHAHA!!!

[hereadawtheradaw]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

Well it sounds like you are the engineer, so good, that's not your place, haha!

I kinda assumed there were some people here that are actually producing people but in reality that's a skill that is not common. Mostly recording engineers, mixers, and "beat makers".

Anyway, the topic is more along the lines of: How do you or do you suggest things to big ego people.

just sit down and smoke sum krack with them and explain your theoryz, then it will aLL make sents.

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by hereadawtheradaw

just sit down and smoke sum krack with them and explain your theoryz, then it will aLL make sents.

Didn't you listen to Whitney? Crack is wack! Weed will do.

[hereadawtheradaw]

no, not in your scenario, weed will not do.

weed improves your analytical ability whereas crack just makes people high as a kite, thus they would be more likely to agree with your cockamami (sp) theoryz.

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by hereadawtheradaw

no, not in your scenario, weed will not do.

weed improves your analytical ability whereas crack just makes people high as a kite, thus they would be more likely to agree with your cockamami (sp) theoryz.

Wow, you're stupid, lol.

[RasCricket]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

The music is already there, trust , but it's naive to think you can have commercial success looking like a bum.

I've always wanted to be more than a "beat maker" I want to work with talent and shape our sound. I have insight but the hard part is getting people with strong egos to trust that.

My main priority is our sound, it's music and there is too much image driven bullshit, but this is the playing field.

Though those other guys are right, I can tell by how you write that, you have some sense for the whole A&R rep thing. Keep going in that direction. Im like, the resident rasta here so, you can probably imagine my stance on the whole "pipe" issue, lol.

But seriously: in the real world, and the higher you go musically (in certain genres), theres gonna be somebody there saying "Wear this, say that, now wear this, and PLAY this". And hip-hop people are probably the most "designed" in this way. Guys in pop bands also get the same treatment. Ever seen pics pf the Blink 182 guys before they got signed? Not ONE tattoo. The record company fully designed the look of those guys.

And it takes people of certain mindsets to do this. Its not the prettiest aspect of the 'biz, but its certainly a factor.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

...I feel bad because dude is put together pretty well for 2008 but this is 2010. Style has always been important in hip-hop but I kind of feel like an A&R or something...

"Pretty well" is never good enough. Posing is posing and 2008 is no worse than 2010.

I'd just tell him he ought to make a much more personal statement with his clothes because he needs to be SETTING trends and not just following them. Creativity must be applied to everything he does.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

Wow, you're stupid, lol.