Producing Talent

[RasCricket]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Not saying you can't/shouldn't go shoe shopping with your artist (), just saying that definitely does NOT fall under the umbrella of "what a producer does/should do".

On some levels, you bet your ass it is!!

I think you're being way too general here man. There are, often times and Ive seen it many times firsthand, often "investors" in artists and yes, they prefer to dress their "investment" themselves. And yes, they are the Producer at the same time. The guy that can shape the overall vision ~ thats the producer.


Here guys ~ Ive got a Cuisinart with a picture of Santa on the side so I/we can mince words in holiday style!!

LOL ~ kidding. Merry Christmas all :D

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

"Pretty well" is never good enough. Posing is posing and 2008 is no worse than 2010.

I'd just tell him he ought to make a much more personal statement with his clothes because he needs to be SETTING trends and not just following them. Creativity must be applied to everything he does.

I like that. Seriously, that's a great point.

We had the talk and he's already got plans for himself. He knows the game. We're shooting a video in January so I'm relieved. I have a great feeling about this.

It's just good because I'm really starting to vibe w/ artists, able to communicate honestly. Seems rare these days. If this producing thing doesn't work out there's always managing, but I'd rather work in an A&R department. Hahaha. Everybody loves an A&R lol!!!!

[CRACKPIPE]

Right on RasCricket. Thanks for your insight.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by RasCricket

On some levels, you bet your ass it is!!

I think you're being way too general here man. There are, often times and Ive seen it many times firsthand, often "investors" in artists and yes, they prefer to dress their "investment" themselves. And yes, they are the Producer at the same time. The guy that can shape the overall vision ~ thats the producer.

You're missing my point. An investor might produce a record. That same investor might offer fashion tips to his investment. However, when he is offering those fashion tips, he's not acting as a producer; conversely, when he's producing the record, he's not acting as an image consultant.

Music ≠ Image. Not saying the two aren't (for better or worse...usually worse) related, not saying one doesn't have influence over the other (for better or worse...usually worse) but they are not the same thing.

My point is don't put on your image consultant hat to make a record, and don't put on your record producer hat to help your artist pick out a pair of shoes.

[Bob Olhsson]

Every artist has to go out on stage all alone and sell himself. In order to do this, he must be able to own everything he does including how he looks and how he moves.

We had a great choreographer at Motown. He worked with each group to create dances that they felt absolutely great about and completely owned. Their image was never imposed by Motown but the bar for quality was set very high and they had to please both themselves and all of the rest of us. (Motown was a management company that owned its own record labels.)

You can spend a fortune in time and money grooming a horse but in the end, the horse still needs to run and win the race!

[RasCricket]

From my experience, those are more often than not, the same person.

So what does a "Producer" traditionally do would ya say, Grotto? A producer shapes the overall vision and doesnt this include the image of the band, right? Maybe youre saying that Producers shape the "sonic appearance of the artist through the recording". I'm not sure thats where a Producers job ends.

However, you're likely in higher places, Grotto, and maybe I could use a more traditional breakdown on a Producers role. So if ya got a minute, "break-it-down"! ~ *music changes to the "break down", lol.

[fooloof]

my understanding of a producer is someone involved in most, if not all phases of a record: the music, lyrics, the hook, the budget, promotion, even the personal lives of the artist, if necessary. and you often hear producers talk about trying to tell the artist's story; they obviously have to understand the artist on a personal level. and you also have to manage the artist's ego; so there could be a delicate way to advise someone they need to dress better. but anyone making music for pay is making a product, hence the term "producer." as such, every aspect of the product must have the best effort in order to maximize sales. That's why companies spend billions of dollars in advertising, instead letting the quality of the product speak for itself. A person's image is as important to his commercial success as anything else. imagine nwa dressin up in tuxes and rocking bowl cuts. ice cube grew up middle class, but created an image to go with his words. that's why dr. dre traded in his lace for t-shirts and a raiders cap. it is certainly okay to tell someone they need to change up they wardrobe; but you need to be able to tell them what they should be wearing.

[fooloof]

Originally Posted by RasCricket

From my experience, those are more often than not, the same person.

So what does a "Producer" traditionally do would ya say, Grotto? A producer shapes the overall vision and doesnt this include the image of the band, right? Maybe youre saying that Producers shape the "sonic appearance of the artist through the recording". I'm not sure thats where a Producers job ends.

However, you're likely in higher places, Grotto, and maybe I could use a more traditional breakdown on a Producers role. So if ya got a minute, "break-it-down"! ~ *music changes to the "break down", lol.

i think it depends on the producer and the situation. most likely, someone like danity kane has everything "produced", while jay z will probably accept much less input on his image and other non-musical elements of a record.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by RasCricket

From my experience, those are more often than not, the same person.

So what does a "Producer" traditionally do would ya say, Grotto? A producer shapes the overall vision and doesnt this include the image of the band, right? Maybe youre saying that Producers shape the "sonic appearance of the artist through the recording". I'm not sure thats where a Producers job ends.

However, you're likely in higher places, Grotto, and maybe I could use a more traditional breakdown on a Producers role. So if ya got a minute, "break-it-down"! ~ *music changes to the "break down", lol.

The producer's job is to organize the making of a RECORD. This would include control and allocation of budget, hiring the necessary musicians, engineers, and studios, working with the artist to make the music as good as it possibly can be (or, in the case of certain label contracts, as marketable [yes, there are clauses in contracts that specifically say a producer must deliver a commercially-viable product), and executing that vision.

I guess, to put it in simplest terms, the job is called a "RECORD" producer because he works on the recording. His job ends there.

Nobody can see what an artist looks like during the recording process, so there's no need to worry about what he's wearing. Leave the YouTube in-studio "documentaries" out of the discussion. Those do NOT go against my point, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that there's not an artist (or even, arguably, a human) in the universe that doesn't change the way he behaves when a camera is turned on.

Anyway...

A record producer and a promoter are two very, very different jobs. I've never met a single record producer who promotes a client's record, other than occasional local hip hop guys trying to break into the scene. And to be honest, those guys usually suck at the promotion end, limiting their "marketing" to Myspace spam and handbills for their mixtapes. An accomplished producer might mention a record he's proud of or believes in to press, but I've never heard of a producer at the professional level actively promoting, marketing, styling, et al, his artist.

There are indeed instances where an individual might do multiple jobs. For example, Dr Dre certainly pushed the likes of Eminem back when he was first starting to blow up. But Dre's involvement in the process included a significant investment in Em (the kind of investment that would typically come from a label, which is why the label typically handles promotion and whatnot: it's THEIR money on the line), and his work to promote Em could hardly be considered an extension of his role as producer of Em's record. When he finished Em's record, he ceased to be employed as the producer. When he took up the promotion of Em's record, he was doing a separate job. I'd also suspect that he had an army of people behind-the-scenes making the real calls on how to promote Em, and Dre was more or less a mouthpiece, using his own celebrity to further Em's career.

This last bit is, of course, purely speculation. I wouldn't be surprised if there are exceptions; I'm sure they're out there. But believe me, they ARE exceptions. Promotion is a VERY specialized job, just like record production.

Yowza, what a mouthful! Did it even make sense? It's Christmas, I'm hungry, and there's a "Criminal Minds" marathon on, so I may not be in my most focused, articulate state of mind

[bgrotto]

Oh, by the way, if anyone's gonna give input to an artist about his image, it'll be the powers-that-be at the label. Likely an A&R. Or maybe someone from the company's PR firm (that is, if the artist doesn't have his own PR firm).

Or maybe the artist's manager.

Again, there's no reason that these jobs can't all be done by the same person, but it's extremely uncommon.

[Lawrence]

I agree with BGrotto. Any other personal thoughts would be pointless.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

... I've never met a single record producer who promotes a client's record...

That's exactly what Berry Gordy did and he ended up with his own label. Same with most of the hip hop pioneers.

All of the roles need to be handled competently but the daze of having a team of corporate hip hop specialists is gone. Producers and artists are going to need to get really good at everything again in order to survive.

[keylay]

I remember the first time I worked with an artist that really had some great singing talent. I finally realized what people were saying about how you don't need to do much EQ wise. Producing Talent is so much more enjoyable than when someone pays you to do their first tracking session.

[db2]

I find that most MC's I meet in the studio respect feedback more then just praise. I've had the opportunity to be around some good underrated MC'c, and I think when they're spitting real shit, from their heart, their more open to feedback because there's a bit of insecurity that comes with opening yourself up in front of others. Luckily I've been around some humble cats. On the flip side, if they don't want to hear it, then just try and get the best performance out of them that you can, just correcting technical things.

[Alxi]

WOW

Probably the dumbest thread i've seen here so far.

The only way you should make fashion recommendation is if you are paying for your artist. If you are getting paid to make beats, make beats and stop acting like a big shot "producer"

Imagine you are a rapper.. would you let a beatmaker that you are buying beats from tell you about your clothing style ???

I know i wouldn't.. i would even hire someone else.

-Alxi

[CRACKPIPE]

He asked me to be his manager. I guess he respects my insight. Not really the angle I was going for but I need the paycheck, lol.

[malgfunk]

I feel where the OP is coming from because i've been in situations with artists that want my input or guidance outside the realm of music production, but that where I draw the line and bring in other resources that specialize in style, and taste. This approach helps with the overall project deliverables and keep everyone focused on their roles.

[RasCricket]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

He asked me to be his manager. I guess he respects my insight. Not really the angle I was going for but I need the paycheck, lol.

And good ya got that check. The thing most of us should keep in mind, is that everyone's on a different level of things and we should keep a broad spectrum in mind when hearing about someone being both a producer and a manager, beat maker, and/or beer runner. Know what I mean?

Like the dude who said this is the dumbest thread. Dont take it too seriously man. Its not like he sayin' he works for Capitol records or nothin. Lighten up

[KBOY]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Producers and artists are going to need to get really good at everything again in order to survive.

Absolutely!! Very well said, and thank you.

[CRACKPIPE]

Originally Posted by KBOY

Absolutely!! Very well said, and thank you.

Cosign.

[Alxi]

Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE

He asked me to be his manager. I guess he respects my insight. Not really the angle I was going for but I need the paycheck, lol.

Then my Bad...

The way i understood it was that you went out of your way to tell someone who happens to buy you some beats how he should dress in order to gain succes.

Now, if he is actually asking you to manage him, that's an all other story alltogheter.

-Alxi