am i using too much plug in my vocal chain?

[janjaal]

recently i came thru this chain and now i'm thinking if i'm using too much plugz for a vocal chain??

1 uad fairchild (for giving balls to my vox)
2 uad pultec pro (to tune the vox the way i want)
3 uad 1176 se (to level the vox to my mix)
4 waves rdeess (to de ess!!)
5 uad plate 140 (reverb)

now i thought i should've stopped here BUT, i hear the vox to be a bit muddy, harsh, i donnu how to explain it however i added

6 uad la2a or la3a (which makes the vox sit in the mix)
7 waves req 2 band (to take the mud out at 2k, and boos a bit at 10k)

and i slightly compress my instuments in the mix maybe a db or 1.5 db (which mainly produced in propellerhead reason) or i might push the compressor on the kick to get the right sound out of it...

so plz tell me if what i'm doind is normal, or i should reduce some plugz in the chain...

[PeeWeeGee]

Well...

There are a few things to consider.
1. Does it sound GOOD?!
2. Are you willing to deal with this amount of plugs per track to get your voice to the quality you like it?
3. Are you compensating for something in your recording chain?

Without knowing exactly what's going on with your vocal setup, it's hard to tell if you're "doing something wrong". In all likelihood, you might want to see what you can do to effect the signal on the way IN so you won't have so much work to do with tweaking plugs. (It could be anything from mic placement to vocal technique to the equipment itself.)

But, FWIW, it's all about the SOUND. If you like the results, make that "vocal chain" a preset of some sort and roll wit it!

PWG

[gorillainthemix]

I would take out "3" and "5".
"3" can go to an aux for all your vocals. You'll hear the word "glue" a lot when the "2buss" gets discussed.
You basically route all your vocals to a stereo aux and put the 1176 on there.

"5" can go on an auxiliary track too. Give it an input (bus 1-2 i.e.) and assign your bus sends of the vocal tracks to it.

[steveschizoid]

If there is any question, you might want to go back, disable all the compressors, volume automate the vocal track - pre fader! - then add the compressors back one at a time (making sure they are volume matched with the uncompressed sound) and compare the sound with and without. Finally, you might want to volume automate the fader (post compression) depending on the dynamics of the song. That being said, applying several layers of compression to a vocal is not uncommon; just make sure each layer is actually an improvement.

[bgrotto]

That's a lot of processing. I'd start by fixing your mic placement, the vocalist's technique, and working the arrangement (either in the mix or, ideally, in the production phase).

I rarely need more than some volume rides and a touch or two of EQ, unless the vocal has been really poorly recorded.

[Audio Child]

Originally Posted by janjaal

recently i came thru this chain and now i'm thinking if i'm using too much plugz for a vocal chain??

1 uad fairchild (for giving balls to my vox)
2 uad pultec pro (to tune the vox the way i want)
3 uad 1176 se (to level the vox to my mix)
4 waves rdeess (to de ess!!)
5 uad plate 140 (reverb)

now i thought i should've stopped here BUT, i hear the vox to be a bit muddy, harsh, i donnu how to explain it however i added

6 uad la2a or la3a (which makes the vox sit in the mix)
7 waves req 2 band (to take the mud out at 2k, and boos a bit at 10k)

and i slightly compress my instuments in the mix maybe a db or 1.5 db (which mainly produced in propellerhead reason) or i might push the compressor on the kick to get the right sound out of it...

so plz tell me if what i'm doind is normal, or i should reduce some plugz in the chain...

Im trying not too picture exactly wat number 1 in your chain looks like lol.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by Audio Child

Im trying not too picture exactly wat number 1 in your chain looks like lol.

lol

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by janjaal

recently i came thru this chain and now i'm thinking if i'm using too much plugz for a vocal chain??

1 uad fairchild (for giving balls to my vox)
2 uad pultec pro (to tune the vox the way i want)
3 uad 1176 se (to level the vox to my mix)
4 waves rdeess (to de ess!!)
5 uad plate 140 (reverb)

now i thought i should've stopped here BUT, i hear the vox to be a bit muddy, harsh, i donnu how to explain it however i added

6 uad la2a or la3a (which makes the vox sit in the mix)
7 waves req 2 band (to take the mud out at 2k, and boos a bit at 10k)

and i slightly compress my instuments in the mix maybe a db or 1.5 db (which mainly produced in propellerhead reason) or i might push the compressor on the kick to get the right sound out of it...

so plz tell me if what i'm doind is normal, or i should reduce some plugz in the chain...

Man,are you shittin me??
Take off all that crap.
Work on mike placement and positioning,considering of course that you have a decent mike and pre as well as a good performer.

[janjaal]

thank you very much for the replies..

sm7>blackloin auteur> rme ff is my chain

and from the comments i strongly believe i gotta work on my mic positioning and placements

again thnx alot for the helpfull replies...

[Lrmusic]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Man,are you shittin me??
Take off all that crap.
Work on mike placement and positioning,considering of course that you have a decent mike and pre as well as a good performer.

Yep, Mixing with your mind is good for this.

And OP, if all your vox need are balls:

Vox Popoli: The brother has large, brass balls

[KRStudio]

Read up on parallel compression. Great for vocals among other things.

[The Beatsmith]

there's not much in the 'placement' of an sm7, other than how on axis you are

contrary to what everyone is sayng above, i'm not saying you're using 'too many' plugins, use as many as you like. however i am thinking that you probably aren't using them correctly

and i think it's fine to chain a few compressors, using each one quite subtly.

try:

EQ (just cutting and HPF) -> 1176 -> LA2A -> another EQ for boosts if necessary -> de-esser if necessary

bus your reverb, or experiment putting it before/after the de-esser. if you do bus it, try a de-esser on the reverb bus.

that's not many less plugins that he's using now, but i do NOT see this as 'too many'. i would just do a few db of reduction with each of the UA compressors, and experiment using them switched around too. alternatively, just one of them might work really well, so you can just experiment with bypassing certain things and turning up the compression on the non-bypassed compressor. i haven't used a software la3a, but it's possible this would take the place of both these compressors if it's anything like it is in real life. then you'd only need one compressor.

[gorillainthemix]

If I had a question about mic placement I would be very annoyed if people started talking about plug-ins....anyhoo, considering your recording is decent, I woud stick to my first answer and perhaps even take out the de-esser. Seems people have de-esser fever around here.
However, and this is what I think they're talking about (if I may be so free to assume like everybody else), if your recording sucks, no plug in is going to make it sound better.

[PeeWeeGee]

Originally Posted by PeeWeeGee

Well...

There are a few things to consider.
1. Does it sound GOOD?!
2. Are you willing to deal with this amount of plugs per track to get your voice to the quality you like it?
3. Are you compensating for something in your recording chain?

Without knowing exactly what's going on with your vocal setup, it's hard to tell if you're "doing something wrong". In all likelihood, you might want to see what you can do to effect the signal on the way IN so you won't have so much work to do with tweaking plugs. (It could be anything from mic placement to vocal technique to the equipment itself.)

But, FWIW, it's all about the SOUND. If you like the results, make that "vocal chain" a preset of some sort and roll wit it!

PWG

Sticking with the original answer.

Why do the peeps on the R/HH forum always assume the OP is doing something incorrectly? The one variable we don't know is what is the desired end result? If it takes 15 plugs to get that, so be it. It's music people, not brain surgery. Moreover, for all the smart-ass answers, no one really commented on the recording environment being a possible factor. Everybody would be smelling like a$$ if dude posted a sample and it sounds like something recorded by Jimmy Douglas at The Hit Factory.

Ease up, people....

[The Beatsmith]

the recording environment is rarely a factor with an sm7

[PeeWeeGee]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

the recording environment is rarely a factor with an sm7

Agreed. But that speaks to my point. We don't really know what dude is yielding as results. Maybe the OP can post a snip and THEN we can pick out some audible issues.

Otherwise, we could be telling him all of the WRONG things to do.

[The Beatsmith]

agreed

[janjaal]

sure.
i make dark psycho hiphop, and i don't rap in english
i made the beat in logic, recorded the "persian daf" percussion with c414> auteur.
and mixed in cubase 5 with the plugs i mentioned.
i use waves ssl eq on everything buy vocals ofcourse.
no compression on the instruments, but the kick and persian daf.
here is my true voice mixed so let me know what u guys fink

[Alxi]

FWIW I don't think that's too many plug.

Like beatsmith said, i would maybe change the signal flow a bit and add some parallele comp plus I would, like peeweegee said, do some basic volume automation pre comp.

lately i have realised that i get better results with multiple stage compression/Eq

My 2 cents

-Alxi

[janjaal]

so...

[PeeWeeGee]

Overall, I wouldn't say that the vocals sounded "bad" by any stretch. The mix was bit dark and "low-midrangey" and seemed to conflict with your vocal a bit. But that's not the feedback you're looking for!

I think you might want to ride the faders a bit BEFORE hitting the compressor. (I agree with Alxi here.) You have a lot of dynamics in your performance and I think you're trying to compensate for that with a lot of compression. Also, the language you're rapping in has a lot of "throaty" sounds. (Arabic?!) So, I'd recommend automating the "offensive" parts so that the overall delivery seems smoother. De-Essing may help, but you may have to boost the highs/air of the vocal again with EQ.

As to the plugs, it looks like you're lacking a surgical EQ in the earlier stages of processing. (Are you trying to EQ via the tonal colors of the plugs?!) Using the old 5 cuts for every 1 boost rule of EQ'ing, see if you can get your vocal about 70% there just using a 6+ band EQ, compression and trim automation.

Definitely put your reverb on a send bus, as well. It will GREATLY impair clarity if you don't set the parameters correctly. (That applies whether it is a send or insert.)

I'd have to say that more than two stages of compression on a single track is probably overkill. This isn't a "set it and forget it" type deal. Take the time to get a couple of compressors to yield the smoothing (and coloring) effect you're looking for.

End result - You'd be down to 3 (maybe 4) plugs on your channel; 1 on your FX buss.

[The Beatsmith]

is that.... hewbrew?!

i only have my laptop on me at the moment, but try the kinda signal chain i posted and see if you like that.

[janjaal]

thnx alot guys, i will try what u have adviced
i just rented a dbx 160a (thinking of buying it) and tried it out and really like compressing 1.5-2 db while tracking, sounds like i don't need to compress in the mix.

and it's not Hebrew. sounds very similar from far away, like if two ppl talk in Hebrew and if i'm 20 meters away from them, i would think that they are speaking PERSIAN.
Persians and Israelis sound in a same tone, they look alike, their personality is very the same along with their way of thoughts. their ppl are very cool and enjoy their time together, but,
dfegadtheir governments want to wipe each other off the map
again thnx alot and really appreciate your help

[rhodesp04]

when i'm doing a ITB demo mix (i'm not a mixing engineer)
this is what i often have:

On the channel->
EQ (usually Waves Ren. or McDSP)
Comp. (usually McDSP CB3 or BF Fairchild)
Waves De-Esser (if needed)

after making it sound good on it's own i will decide (taking the rest of the production/arrangement into consideration) what to add to the buss:

Often on the buss->
Reverb: (usually Waves IR, TrueVerb, or D-Verb)
and/or
Delay: (usually Digi-Delay or Waves H-Delay for Lo-Fi effect)

Sometimes if it's harsh I'll also add DUY Valve to the buss

[The Beatsmith]

stick the dbx in overeasy mode and let it have more like 5-8db average compression... ratio to taste.

more and you lose the top end and get more sibilance.

[janjaal]

ok.
here is what u guyz told me to do. i also messed with the elements to bring it out of being "a dark mix"

on the same recorded vocal i used
1.farichild
2.pultec
3.1176
4.de-es

bus:plate 140 reverb

to me it sounds nicer and ofcourse thanx to all of u.

[PeeWeeGee]

Sounds much CLEARER to me. Easier to follow and the vocals sit well in the mix! Congrats on that!

Now....please solve the great mystery. What LANGUAGE is that?!?!

[janjaal]

thank u thank u
i already said it. it's Persian, and i'm from Iran.

[PeeWeeGee]

Originally Posted by janjaal

thank u thank u
i already said it. it's Persian, and i'm from Iran.

Sorry, missed that.

Persian Hip Hop. Now THAT'S dope!


PWG

[SDProductions]

I Dont know my dude, I de' ss first.