Software versus Hardware samplers & synths

[nypkskll]

Interesting how the MPC and other outboard gear is still surviving when $300 gets you a ton of stuff in the software world.

Can anybody name any current hits done with software and mixed in Pro Tools???

Can that keep up with SP's, MPC, Kurzwiel's, and SSL produced material???

You be the judge.


BTW: Bravo to who ever produced and mixed "Stunt 101". I know that's old but dang... I heard it the other day and that track is still nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[XHipHop]

$300 also gets you a lot in the hardware world right now too.

Waldorf Micro Q
Korg Tr-rack
Roland JV-2080
Yamaha ex-5r
Roland Juno 106 or 60
Oberheim Matrix 6
Roland JD-990

If you do a search, there is a thread in this forum about songs that were mixed "in the box".

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by nypkskll

Interesting how the MPC and other outboard gear is still surviving when $300 gets you a ton of stuff in the software world.

Can anybody name any current hits done with software and mixed in Pro Tools???

Can that keep up with SP's, MPC, Kurzwiel's, and SSL produced material???

You be the judge.


BTW: Bravo to who ever produced and mixed "Stunt 101". I know that's old but dang... I heard it the other day and that track is still nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't Konartist from D12 make that beat? It's a replayed sample from "Tobacco Road"...

[nypkskll]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Didn't Konartist from D12 make that beat? It's a replayed sample from "Tobacco Road"...

Oh, okay. I always get caught out there like that. I think someone is a genius and then I find out that they sampled it from the real genius.

Thanks. The mix is still tight though.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by nypkskll

Oh, okay. I always get caught out there like that. I think someone is a genius and then I find out that they sampled it for the real genius.

Thanks. The mix is still tight though.

It was a hot track for sure and he really flipped the sample...

[mars]

Maybe it's not having to stare at a computer screen. But when I sit down with an MPC, I come up with completely different stuff than when I sit down with Reason or Logic. Also, software has NO resale value whatsoever.

[Fredrik]

I would say it´s the hands on aproach, it´s actual not virtual. Also less hastle with drivers, upgrades, bugs, viruses etc. all in all less focus on the myriad of possibilities and technical problems and more focus on the music.

Would anybody think of a virtual guitar as a real alternative for a guitarplayer, mousin around on the fret? I doubt it.

Also you dont get alot of good software for $300, perhaps one plugin.

[Ijustmake-Beats]

With hardware you get a computer that is specifically designed to be a working musical instrument in terms of it's interface and software. No clashes, errors, rare crashes, sufficient power and resources for it's intended purpose, controller/interface built right in, soundcard built right in etc. Just turn it on and you're ready to go. Plus there's nothing like having the quickest possible route to interacting with your music, hardware still does it the best, especially when you really get to know your instrument.

With a PC, even after you've purchased the actual computer and software you still have to think about finding a suitable controller/s and soundcard. The money adds up pretty quick and even the best controller still doesn't give you perfect interfacing, you'll still be referring to your mouse and keyboard for a lot of things which is hardly good workflow. The other disadvantage with software is that a computer with a bunch of USB peripherals is rarely portable if you intend perform live or record in another studio, even an MPC/w zip drive is easier to take around.

Hardware does have two advantages though, simple file management and easy in-depth sequence editing. So the best setup is probably to have the best of both, your preferred hardware with USB/card reader, or some other hook up to a computer, for easy transferrence between sampler and computer.

[rvwainscott]

I think we have the best of both worlds at my place. Weve got a Juno 60, SP1200, Nord Lead, Waldorf, etc and we have, well, Reason. Guess what? 9 times out of 10 we go right to reason for the sounds and feel that we want.

It wasn't like this even two years ago. Then we were still creating most of our own patches and using session musicians for parts that we just didn't trust a computer based application to perform. Things have changed.

Reason rewired into a TDM system destroys. The reason audio engine is terrible but if you can work around that (rewire) then reason can do just about 90% of what good real world gear can do. Further still, my clients now expect engineers to be familiar very familiar with Reason. Other than protools, it is the program most inquired about.

Robert V. Wainscott
Full Clip Audio

[nypkskll]

Originally Posted by rvwainscott

my clients now expect engineers to be familiar very familiar with Reason. Other than protools, it is the program most inquired about.

Robert V. Wainscott
Full Clip Audio

Interesting... so do we think the so called big dogs are using Reason and other software stuff? Like Pharrel, Jus Blaze, Jazzy, Dre? Or are they the die hards of the MPC, SP 1200, etc...? Based on some VH1/MTV show the other night, looks like Kanye had the MPC out but with mad dudes around who "play" instruments. I he touching something like Reason. Do yall no for fact what the Pro trend is? Curious.

Thanks

[Ijustmake-Beats]

Rvwainscot - def, Reason is my main peice of software right now as well. It'll often do upto 80% of any given track. The sound quality made a significant improvement with ver 3 too, I happily use it as a stand alone rack now. It does most of my synth and pad sounds, and some bass and rhodes (electro refill). If it had a MIDI out option I'd even consider it for sequencing.

Everything has it's place. I'd still keep hardware as my first choice if I was forced to cut back to just one piece of gear, for the reason mentioned above. Software is still kinda complimentary right now.

About Reason and the pro's, I vaguely remember someone on these boards talking about Master P or someone from No Limit using Reason (?) in his setup. The only well-known software producer that I know of is 9th Wonder, who uses Fruityloops.

[nypkskll]

Originally Posted by Ijustmake-Beats

The only well-known software producer that I know of is 9th Wonder, who uses Fruityloops.

Sorry, I have not been keeping up with everyone these days, what songs would I know that 9th did?

Also, I'm in the middle of trying to figure out how I want to work on this next CD. Last time I used Reason & it's sequencer along with some elements from Soundtrack and Garageband. I was soooo amazed that I didn't have to buy thousand dollar outboard gear to go with the K2000 that was the only piece I didn't sell from my old studio.

Now, I've been lead to adding some Spectrosonics stuff to go along with Reason. But I really hate the Reason sequencer so I'm trying Pro Tools, which I'm also hating as a sequencer. I am a "audio editing/Mix guy" on Pro Tools but my sequencer skills are minimal on the thing. As far as I could remember, Performer 10 years ago had a better sequencer than what Pro Tools has now! But maybe thats just me.

Anyway, Pro Tools, Reason, and Spectrosonic plugs... any advice? For example, not only do I think the Pro Tools sequencing is so, so but Spectrosonics is boggin down and sometimes freezing my Mac 933mhz computer. Saying that to say, do we think something like Logic would be a better choice for me as maybe it'll handle my Spectrosonic plugs AND have a much better sequencer??? Logic - yes or no? I know, I'm going nuts here.


Peace.

[Anonyme]

[ @ nypkskll : Why not Digital Performer ? I was told the audio part resembled Pro Tool's, and if you already know an old version of Performer you should not need to lose time getting into the program ]

[Methlab]

I hung out with one of the guys from 95 south, and he told me that Reason was all over the place in studios. He said that on it's own was enough for him to write most of their hits.

This was 3 years ago, but it was still cool info.

[nypkskll]

Originally Posted by Anonyme

[ @ nypkskll : Why not Digital Performer ? I was told the audio part resembled Pro Tool's, and if you already know an old version of Performer you should not need to lose time getting into the program ]

Well since working with Performer 10 years ago, I've been just and Post Audio Editor and Mixer for TV stuff within Pro Tools. Now that as of last year I'm messing with music again, I'd like to go with the top rated/used since I'm not "really" attached to Performer. Plus, I got to look at someone's performer the other day and it was "okay" from the 2 minutes that I touched it. Apple's Logic has a good rep but also intergrates nicely with Garage and Soundtrack. Since I'm a Mac guy, I'm thinking Logic can be a good thing.

Reason? I think it's awesome for $300 bucks but how do they get around in the excuse of a sequencer??? I might as well sequence in the little K2000 window!

Later that night - "oh shoot, it's $1000 for Logic"!?#*

[ILL]

You got a button in the upper right corner that puts the sequencer in a new window, then it can be as big as you want it to be...

Reason is great software, but is often bashed by people who want instant radio ready sounds...

[blayz2002]

I think Logic is generally thought of as having one of the strongest Sequencing feature sets of all the DAW's. If your doing Hip Hop & R&B it's a good choice for sequencing after a MPC as it does good stuff with swing and midi manipulation.

I have only ever used Logic so can't comment on other stuff...but I've now got some MPC swing quantized templates to use within it and....yep beats are definately swinging! For some the sequencing features are overkill, but you can get down and dirty in it if you need to.

With all the sofware instruments and plugs you get also nowadays with Logic 7.1. I'ts definately a good look.

[nypkskll]

Well, Reason was a blessing for the first CD even though I hard recording everything into Pro Tools afterwards. Then I recorded vox, edited/cut bars or parts out for drops and mixed within Pro Tools. Sooooooooooo, maybe I can blow up the window and learn to like it. But what about my Spectrosonic stuff/plugs??? I can't use those within Reason, right?

"Too many choices"!... Pick a platform already (talking to myself).

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by nypkskll

Sorry, I have not been keeping up with everyone these days, what songs would I know that 9th did?

He produced "Threats" on the Black LP

and he Produced a song on Destiny Childs newest LP

other that he's underground

His group is called "Little Brother" and he's done plenty of collaboration with the BCC recently(Heltah Skeltah, Black Moon, Smiff N Wessun etc.)

[halfguard]

the listening is 9th wonders (little brother) greatest. one of my all time fav. i use reason as a sound module. i dont even use the reason mixer, i route each instrument to a separate track in pro tools. from there ill use some of the reason effects and then them some pt plug ins. also, i dont use to many stoch reason sounds. i use the sonic refils.

[nypkskll]

Originally Posted by halfguard

i use reason as a sound module. i dont even use the reason mixer, i route each instrument to a separate track in pro tools. from there ill use some of the reason effects and then them some pt plug ins. also, i dont use to many stoch reason sounds. i use the sonic refils.

My intention was to do the same but boy, that PT's sequencer! Annnnddddddd, Spectrosoics has the colorwheel spinnin'!!!! Is it my G4 or are RMX and Trilogy hogs? All that leads to frustration and has me here with you fine folks talkin bout uppin' $1000 for Logic.

Funny how this stuff is... Things were much smoother when I had the K2, 1080, Performer and a ADAT 10 years ago. Now there's a lot to consider (it seems).

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by nypkskll

Funny how this stuff is... Things were much smoother when I had the K2, 1080, Performer and a ADAT 10 years ago. Now there's a lot to consider (it seems).

I agree on this one, and this is never gonna end. Well perhaps sometime but I think the software thing is still abit imature, all in all.

Perhaps we´ll see more hardware with built in software like korg oasys for example.

[halfguard]

i hear that the spectrasonics stuff are are cpu hogs. reason is pretty good on cpu . also, i have a pretty powerful custom pc from sweetwater that is great.

[DivineMusic]

it all comes down to what works best for you. my cousin uses nothing but software and has some great tracks.. i use a little bit of software(east west Colossus) but also use mpc4000Pls, mv8000, triton studio, motif es rack and fantom X
i know i can do everything within the computer as he does but i'm so use to hardware

[Relax]

Originally Posted by halfguard

the listening is 9th wonders (little brother) greatest. one of my all time fav.

i think he's terribly overrated. the beats come from dope ideas/ samples but his drums always sound like shit. imho i like kicks to punch me in the stomach, and snares to smack me in the face. listen to the new memphis bleek album and pick out the 2 weakest sounding beats and they are 9th's. i don't understand why nobody remakes his beats with dope sounds, and if they are running his software through a console it's not helping. by the way threats is a dope track.