Success at transitioning to hardware from software DAW?

[mgthefuture]

What's up GS fam? I was wondering if any of you have started out in my generation with software and transitioned to MPC / Workstation / Sampler style producing.

I've been using fruity loops for 7 years, and lately i been considering adding a sp404 to compliment the setup OR going to Akai MPC 2500 in general.

It's not a hardware VS software thing for me though. I do good with what i got.

It's just something subliminal about it, that's been calling me. The appeal of being able to create on the fly, and not be limited by CPU power (as far as i know).

I'd like to hear any success stories. And what was the rough time/learning curve you had to get your productions cross-over back to par

[beat you down]

please tell me you're aware of the fact that the mpc, or whatever workstation, is also just a computer running software.

[mgthefuture]

^ I had the conversation with a good producer, he suggested to keep my workflow with FL and add toys..so im looking into the sp404ex.

The mpc has the appeal of not crashing like windows tends to do when im doing just 10-20 sounds.....maybe overheating? Cuz them beats on fire...

But can the mpc run turbo tax? If so that would be a plus

im looking into the 2500 with jjos with a great feel, maybe some extra pads just in time for that day of the month.

Or a used 3000, so i can style on everyone who cant afford one and call myself el super produceh!

[KevWest]

I would just add racks if u really want hardware. they intergrate very well with software and take up minimal space. I dont know if I would add a mpc either. Maybe an S series rack or an Ensoniq rack. I dont see how a drum machine would add anything to what u already have in fl. sounds a bit like gear lust to me.

[viewingstuff]

using your mind's eye to paint a sonic picture is quite liberating

[mgthefuture]

Yeah..it must be gear lust.

The sp404 it is!

Then probally an ASR / Emax rack to follow.

[beat you down]

try some cheap stuff to see if you even like that type of workflow.
i started with all hardware, leaning towards all software more and more.
starting up all these modules and sh!t can be a drag.

[rhodesp04]

i've mentioned this in different posts but i have gone through a few different phases with equipment so i can mention a few things that may help.

1st phase-> FL 6 + Midi-keyboard
- Good while i was learning to play keyboard and drums for the first time because I could put my drums into a grid set the swing and i couldn't mess them up
- FL has built in sounds that were effective and made it fairly easy if i wanted to sample (FL slicer)

When I was starting to get really good after about a year or so (already had a musical background since age 9) I gave into the peer pressure of switching to hardware...

2nd phase-> MPC 2000xl + Roland Fantom
- Much improved drum sounds (IMO) and had the legendary swing
- Enjoyed the fantom's stock sounds better than FL's
- Forced me to improve on my keyboard/piano chops because I couldn't edit them in a "Piano Roll" type format like in the past

Spent all my money on the MPC and Fantom and had no money to buy a DAW or better computer to record it. Didn't have much money because I was in college on scholarship so I sold them both and went for a new setup that I felt gave me the best of both worlds...

3rd phase-> Reason Only
- Could still edit my keyboard playing if I made a mistake
- Stock sounds were great (near or same as Fantom)
- FX and automation was great
- Started consistently making more pro-level songs (or so I was told by industry folks)

Started missing the "sound" and "swing" of the MPC but knew I'd have to get all kinds of other things to record it properly (preamps, a/d convertor, cables, etc etc) so I saved up for a system that would allow me to expand...

4th phase-> Everything (PT, Logic, MPC, Reason, Keyboards, etc)
- Created a system that could expanded and/or changed depending on my mood/inspiration
- Learned that everything has it's pros and cons and that how I'm feeling can dictate what's the best thing for me to use.


Having said all of that...Tips for the conversion...
1. Going to really have to practice your chops on programming / instrument playing because there usually is no way to correct errors. Pay attention to the velocity of your playing!
2. Save up for the best computer and outboard you can get FIRST so no matter what you do you'll have good sound quality-wise results (get good monitors, room treatment, d/a, etc)
3. No visual feedback. You have to really "feel" the music in a different way.

[Reggmail]

I like that term ''Gear Lust"...Lol

I've been doing that for quite some time now.
In my opinion I would say it's 50-50, six in one hand half dozen in the other.

Computer - wait for it to load (if you have a song inspiration not as fast as hardware.
Hardware although it has a computer at it's base, no various protection or anything running in the back ground
to subtract from CPU power. It also doe's a specific job rather it's a MPC, Workstation Keyboard, Digital recorder,
once you turn it on, it's on, you get busy right away.

I have both, I just hate when I have a computer problem because of updated's, driver error, whatever, and it sometimes take day's to figure and repair. You sometimes find yourself being an IT person more than a producer musician beat maker.
The draw back that hardware use to have was updating it, that's no longer a problem with so many update options available.

Also, if I may suggest. look into the MPC 1000 with JJos (save money) if you would like more room, and it's just as powerful as the 2500 and you could easily just ''Throw It In The Bag'' if you need to travail.
Peace & blessings.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

Yeah..it must be gear lust.

The sp404 it is!

Then probally an ASR / Emax rack to follow.

i just know u are one of the proudest fl users ive ever seen in my life. to now say u want something outside of it to me kinda says gearlust. but why a sp404? maybe theres something about that machine that i missed but i hated mine. I am perosnally looking into either getting my s3000 fixed or getting an s950

[JaeOne3345]

sp404?

why?

Get a real full fledged sampler if you gonna even bother.

The 303/404 doesn't even pitch/transpose samples in the traditional sense. It uses some type of effect algorithm to preserve the length but shifts the pitch up or down. It sounds kinda cheesy to me.

You're just having gear lust. It's all good.. it's gearslutz, as you could be spending your money on dumb shit like liquor, cigs, crackwh0res, and gambling.

I got an sp1200, s950, eps 16, mpc 1000, etc and I can do the same things (not the same sound!) with battery 3 for chopping my samples while sequencing in logic, but having different toys is fun to play with. I go through phases. I'm on my battery/logic fix right now. I use it like I do hardware. Copy a break to like 16 pads and adjust start and end point for each one, same as I would on my s950 or mpc, etc.

[Thysta]

I started with FL Studio. Then I bought an S2000, and it was clear that I want hardware. Now I use an MPC and I'd never go back.

[mgthefuture]

Yeah it's gear lust for sure.

Why? Well my first drum machine was a SP303

Sadly, I was never taught how to use it properly, and i sold it on ebay.

Like 2 years later, some chums started doing demos/videos/tutorials on youtube...
and now its perfect for what i got it for.

It's that certain style sound of underground music/sampling im going to use it for.
In particular that lo fi resample. And it's loose sequencer.

Not only that the SP 404 (black) has more FX / Battery powered..so i can take it with me...

Other then that I was thinking mpc1000 with JJOS (instead of 2500)..but im not actually sequencing keyboards and sounds... Im just sampling right now.

I might even just skip the seqeuncer and just dirty up samples in dump back into FL or battery as others are mentioning.

Right now i just want the right toy to get me inspired for this style of music (dilla/9th/illmind)

[mgthefuture]

Originally Posted by xabiton

i just know u are one of the proudest fl users ive ever seen in my life. to now say u want something outside of it to me kinda says gearlust0

I love FL to death. But even I know it's not neccessarily the best tool to use for the phase Im going through.

It does everything creatively correct...

But i still feel like Cubase / Live exceed it in the quality/sonic department.

Some dudes say it dont matter...but anyone who used FL or Reason or Live to make a beat will know better.

there is a distinction.

This week imma be at my boy's trying out his cubase/battery combo..and ill post up some before (FL) and after (cubase) beats...

And the Sampler (lust) really just boils down to me being bored with dragging loops around in a very militant way. Like there's no feeling when i sample via FL now..i can predict and automatically set up chops and sequences without feeling the music out... ANd maybe a small sampler will open my imagniation up a lil bit to get me over this hump.

It's funny, i spent the past 2 years getting my compostion game up because people said i sampled too much. Now i can play way better, got a co producer who trained at piano...and everyone i meet is looking for sampled/underground beats...

plus im beyond competitive with this music stuff..i want to be able to create it all...And sometimes that's gonna take a few extra tools.

[JaeOne3345]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

Right now i just want the right toy to get me inspired for this style of music (dilla/9th/illmind)

You don't a 404 for those kinda beats.

I got all the classic hardware, and I can tell you straight out it's how you make it. The old gear does have a different sound that bit crushers and lofi settings just do not compare with but you can still make dope music regardless. I got straight gutter boom bap beats on my sp1200 and I also got straight gutter boom bap beats on Logic/Battery.

Have you heard Oddisee's stuff on Diamond District? Purely Pro Tools.





Or how about mphazes outta Australia? Dude chops his shit all in cubase/nuendo.







Did you read what I said about 303/404 pitch? You better make sure your sample is at the correct speed/pitch. I personally think the 303/404 pitch algorithm is garbage.

[JaeOne3345]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

And the Sampler (lust) really just boils down to me being bored with dragging loops around in a very militant way. Like there's no feeling when i sample via FL now..i can predict and automatically set up chops and sequences without feeling the music out... ANd maybe a small sampler will open my imagniation up a lil bit to get me over this hump.

Why don't you use FL like hardware? Load up Battery inside of FL. Put a sample on a a range of cells, and edit the start/point of each cell/pad/key. This what you gotta do on all older machines (before autochop).

Use a midi controller (pads/keys) and play it instead of dragging loops.

Seems to be more your approach than what you are using.

[3rd Degree]

I started with just Reason 2.0 and used that, upgrade to 3.0 for 4 years or so. I wanted to learn to sample and I couldn't get how to do it on a computer. I moved to a 1k.

My advice for learning hardware is turn off the computer and just don't mess with it. With a sampler, I think you should learn the machine in and out before you integrate it with something else. From chopping to arranging from sequencing. I didn't even put drums on my flash card at first. It took me about 2 days to make a beat I was happy with, learn both a new machine, and how to sample at the same time.

After awhile, I found it was just easier to use a computer so I switched back. This is what I use most of the time.

I still begain to buy hardware again. I bought an s2000 rack to start, then an ASR 10. I also have 2 MPC's, I found them for cheap, trying to sell one or the other right now. Honestly, I could care less if I had any hardware but enjoy using different machines from time to time.

I think making a transition from one machine to another, even from a computer to an MPC is great, even if you don't stick with it. You will learn alot from limitations of each machine you use and new techiques. You can always apply these back to software. If you buy your hardware used, you will not loose much if any money, I have actually made money in the process (and quite a bit). Before the economy was bad, it was very profitabe to "flip" gear, one reason I started using them more as "teaching" tools than really utiliziing them in my setup.

[Citizen Soldier]

It's just something subliminal about it, that's been calling me. The appeal of being able to create on the fly, and not be limited by CPU power (as far as i know).

I'd like to hear any success stories. And what was the rough time/learning curve you had to get your productions cross-over back to par[/QUOTE]

I think this is a great idea. I have used an MPC 2000XL, a Yamaha SU700, Korg Triton in conjunction with Software for over 5 years.

I love being able to sample and preview samples while listening to running sequences.

There is a learning curve but patience and persistence pays off for a good classic sound.

I wouldn't give up the software but find a way to integrate it with the hardware.

Good Luck!

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

I love FL to death. But even I know it's not neccessarily the best tool to use for the phase Im going through.

It does everything creatively correct...

But i still feel like Cubase / Live exceed it in the quality/sonic department.

Some dudes say it dont matter...but anyone who used FL or Reason or Live to make a beat will know better.

there is a distinction.

This week imma be at my boy's trying out his cubase/battery combo..and ill post up some before (FL) and after (cubase) beats...

And the Sampler (lust) really just boils down to me being bored with dragging loops around in a very militant way. Like there's no feeling when i sample via FL now..i can predict and automatically set up chops and sequences without feeling the music out... ANd maybe a small sampler will open my imagniation up a lil bit to get me over this hump.

It's funny, i spent the past 2 years getting my compostion game up because people said i sampled too much. Now i can play way better, got a co producer who trained at piano...and everyone i meet is looking for sampled/underground beats...

plus im beyond competitive with this music stuff..i want to be able to create it all...And sometimes that's gonna take a few extra tools.

you may just be over software. happend to me 2 years ago. i still have reason and sonar but i dont use em like i used to. i dont know if the sp404 is right for u either. Ur goin from a luxuary car to an 84 taurus on that one. if u really want to go hardware and really want a sampler get something that will either run standalone or use it with ur software too.

[mgthefuture]

@Jae - yeah i'm considering your opinion on the SP series.

Real talk, it just sounds like i dont need to get anything.

In comparison to 3-4 years ago, no one would encourage me to use battery
LOL

I was one of the first cats to really advocate battery/live combo online

if not FL

And it looks like i might be headed in that direction for this phase im going through.

The biggest thing im having is getting the classic sound to be convincing...

That or just coming up with my whole sound indepedent..but the tools (sp404) with the knobs and live filters just seemed like a good way to go find it...

thanks for all the inputs

[TDT Music Group]

Or how about mphazes outta Australia? Dude chops his shit all in cubase/nuendo.





Hacked version of Cubase that is. check out the vid at 7:46 when he opens up cubase. That big H2O Logo is that of a hack team.


dope beats tho........

















I use to use a hacked SX3.

[CRACKPIPE]

Yould have to be pretty inept not to be able to transition. Generally hardware's much simpler anyway.

I went hardware to software to hybrid where I think most working professionals are now.

[JaeOne3345]

Originally Posted by TDT Music Group

Or how about mphazes outta Australia? Dude chops his shit all in cubase/nuendo.





Hacked version of Cubase that is. check out the vid at 7:46 when he opens up cubase. That big H2O Logo is that of a hack team.


dope beats tho........


I use to use a hacked SX3.

Yea, I think everyone knows who h2o is around here, lol.

There are other vids where he is clearly using Nuendo.

Regardless, mphizzle is that dude on the beats. He's awesome.

[F Major]

Dont look at it as a transition, or like you have to choose between one way or another. Expand your setup with interesting creative tools while maintaining your foundation in FL. It dont matter whether you get the SP404 or a SP1200, all tools are going to have individual specs and drawbacks. They are just creative tools and its left up to you to determine a creative way to use them in a musical context.

[Reggmail]

Originally Posted by JaeOne3345

Yea, I think everyone knows who h2o is around here, lol.

There are other vids where he is clearly using Nuendo.

Regardless, mphizzle is that dude on the beats. He's awesome.

Yo JayOne3345, ''M - Phazes'' is on point, and it's not like he's using a lot of equipment eather, but he's slamming.
Some of his hard core beats remind me of the old Chino XL stuff I don't no his producers though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DYHtjnIAls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2StuzYU3Y&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4VKum6K3f0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGgZ9sTDsQ8&feature=related
Maybe it's just me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqoRqgByCjs&feature=related

He tells what he's using at the end of this video.
Thanks for posting my brotha.
Peace & blessings.

[Reggmail]

Originally Posted by F Major

Dont look at it as a transition, or like you have to choose between one way or another. Expand your setup with interesting creative tools while maintaining your foundation in FL. It dont matter whether you get the SP404 or a SP1200, all tools are going to have individual specs and drawbacks. They are just creative tools and its left up to you to determine a creative way to use them in a musical context.

F Major, I agree with you my brotha.
But I also think that you should be able to keep producing no matter what.
In other words, I know that most of us had at some time a ''computer diarrhea'' that's when it breaks down and acts crappy.
I can still produce with the outboard gear not depending on a computer at all.
It's like back in the day buying a stereo or VHS TV combo unit, when one breaks it all shuts down.
Have a back up plain for your backup...if you can afford it have both,
Just my opinion.
Peace & blessings.

[Mr.Amokk]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

What's up GS fam? I was wondering if any of you have started out in my generation with software and transitioned to MPC / Workstation / Sampler style producing.

I've been using fruity loops for 7 years, and lately i been considering adding a sp404 to compliment the setup OR going to Akai MPC 2500 in general.

It's not a hardware VS software thing for me though. I do good with what i got.

It's just something subliminal about it, that's been calling me. The appeal of being able to create on the fly, and not be limited by CPU power (as far as i know).

I'd like to hear any success stories. And what was the rough time/learning curve you had to get your productions cross-over back to par

Like 7 years ago aswell I was starting out with FL. A few month later I got me a MPC1000 + Korg Microkorg and became almost happy. Until the MPC kept crashing and crashing I got mad on how much it limited me. Next came Cubase & Logic on PC...and a few years later...taaaa taaa...the real deal:

Mac pro + Logic 8
Now I'm satisfyed....

MPC is still here, but I wouldn't go back to anything besides my mac. Nothing can be more frustrating than CPU based stutter FX

[mgthefuture]

Yeah, i was really beside myself last week.

I had sometime to sit and think about my goals and needs and I decided to stick to my guns and follow through with my website. Take a few moments off the music (creating) and dive into the graphics, marketing, and networking part of my persona.

Save up, build, and buy/create a new desktop system *maybe coire I* with rediculous ram and maybe invest in a NI Maschine + Kore package.

I beleive the maschine will allow me to go standalone?

Also in need of some new monitors / widescreem LCD/HD / soundcard as well.

And then maybe a laptop dedicate to gaming.

alas.....me getting on my grind mode to stack up the paper to do so.

All i can do is be patient, watch, and strike when the time is right.