Who can answer that question?

[Mr.Amokk]

This is an important question for all of us, so don't take it lightly:

What does seperate "good" from "great"....,slutz...?

[Lrmusic]

Greatness elicits an involuntary, irresistible "omg wow" reaction. Goodness is better than mediocre, as in "hmm this is good but I'm not necessarily compelled". As for individual components of a song/beat/lyric, there are so many variables that no one could make an exhaustive list or anything. Don't really know lol. Greatness is perceived individually, what's great to me might not be great to you. Average greatness is found by taking the avg perception of a given population. A lot of people can probably make something that compels them, but it's harder to make something that compels a large amount of people.

People love to admire greatness (or what they perceive as greatness), so when said greatness doesn't actually exist, they can be deluded into thinking that it does through clever marketing. People love measuring the unquantifiable, which is why we are so eager to anoint a "best rapper alive" and sports junkies like myself can sit through hours of "analysis" on who the best quarterback is and why. However, greatness is perception, and perception is unquantifiable, (the map is not the territory).

We probably could start by making a track that evokes a huge emotional reaction in you (when you listen to it some time after you make it), and is technically on par with pro tracks, (rarely ever sacrificing the emotional power for technical perfection). And it probably helps to be somewhat jaded; unimpressed by your own mediocre efforts (which is why hordes of noobs, who are still in awe of the fact that they can put together a beat that resembles what they consider "actual music", make poor judges of their own work).

I'll post more thoughts later ;-).

[T. Gundersen]

Kobe Bryant is great!

[Lrmusic]

Appealing to the public sense of greatness seems tricky though. For example, critics recognized D'Angelo's Voodoo as great, but albums that were a lot less "great". Some people will say "the public has unrefined taste" and others will say "the public has different taste", I prefer to be amongst the latter group (that's my taste ). You have to anticipate what chord progressions, lyrics, sonic palettes, melorhythmic elements, figurations, etc are compelling to them, and recreate them, in lieu of your natural composition style. That's pretty unnatural; I love the first inversion of the tonic as a harmonic element, the minor pentatonic scale as a melodic element, and 3/4 (mostly just when I improvise on piano though). If I suddenly was forced to write without them, just so I could write something everyone else liked, these songs would not be as compelling to me anymore. As an extreme example, If I were to write a song that a white 80 year old Presbyterian church goer liked, I would suddenly be without a ton of my tools. "You mean I can't put in a maj7? What is this nonsense!" . I could still write the song from a technical standpoint, but I wouldn't be emotionally invested, and it would just be "work."

[voicegenius]

This is sooooooo subjective....

[Chris Lago]

To be honest, GS has nothing to do with real life. I think the fact that I make money producing makes me happy, and clients come back so they are certainly liking my services. I also get jobs because of fellow GSers on here, so that's a good sign for me. I try not to think of it as a competition. You're asking what is a Difference between good and great... You would have to define what is great and go from there... But what is great? Compared to Bruce Swedien, I am not great, I am suckish! So there's no point in comparing, you just need to do what you have to do, and let the artists who you work with define what they think is great. Certainly, if they come back to work with you again, they must probably think that you are great!

For example, me and a fellow producer worked on a Rock song, and he asked me to mix it to get a different point of view. I mixed it one way, he mixed it another way. I mastered both versions... The bottom line is, both mixes are great, and for different reasons. So what is great?!? I don't know, I think it eventually comes to preferences, unless you are a game changer, aka Timbaland/Red One/Danja/ Dre etc. You know, people who have proved themselves in the industry and who are crafting commercial hits (note the commercial word there) day after day.

[Storyville]

Great is when the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Anyone can fit something together and make it cool. Great is when something comes out of the writing, arranging, performing, tracking, mixing, and mastering that can only be attributed to all of those things at once.

The counter example is "it's really well performed, but the lyrics just seem artificial." Or, "it's a great song, but the recording doesn't do it justice." When great comes around, it's often hard to put a finger on it because everything interacts so well the greatness can't be singularly defined (ethnomusicology yeah!). The listener doesn't think about individual pieces, the song just hits them and triggers a response that precedes thought.

Nine time out of ten, greatness is clear when a song still feels fresh long after it is finished. Twenty years later, that joint comes on and it's like "**** yeah." There are some odd exceptions - I thought the movie Adaptation was really great, but I don't think I would want to watch it a bunch of times.

[Magic Theatre]

Without getting too philosophical, good producers work from the head, and great producers learnt to work from the heart.

[RyanC]

Consistency.

Everyone has one great song/beat/hook etc in them. Greatness is being able to operate at very high levels day in and out.

Also knowing that you can always improve.

[rhodesp04]

i second part of what story said. the sum has to be the greater than it's parts. i constantly hear music that i'm like "wow the production on that song is great but the rapping/singing is wack" or vice-versa.

i think you need:

1. great production: all that means is if it fits the lyrics/idea. if it's a simple club beat with some 808's and a couple synths great. if it's a deep song you might want a nice piano or some strings. whatever's necessary to get the message accross...

2. great lyrics: for whatever message it's trying to convey. "brenda's got a baby" is a totally different song lyrically then "crank dat" but both (IMO let's not excited...) were effective in what they were trying to convey. yes tupac's song has much more substance and is a lot deeper, but i never danced to that song. "crank dat" got me and all my friends to the dance floor instantly. you get my point

3. great delivery: does the artist sound believable/credible? if a six-year-old sang "always love you" by whitney houston i probably wouldn't believe her no matter how good she was. if taylor swift sang "creep" by TLC i probably wouldn't believe her either. etc etc

in this case if you can have 1-3 that song will most likely be great

[Mr.Amokk]

Wow this thread is getting interesting...

"Great is when the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts."

Damn. That sentence IS great on it's own...thumbsup