Mastering your demotracks

[Mr.Amokk]

What's up Slutz?

Some of us are shopping tracks one way or another and we all try to get the best possible product. The industry side is waiting for some mastered music (best accessable sound) but not all of us are expirienced in mastering music.

I just want some tips or chains you're using for "finalizing" your product.

We know it's not all about L3, so tell me what you're doin' and if you're satisfyed.

My current chain is:

- Stereo wav of track mix
- EQ (Waves)
- SSL comp (Waves)
- Inflator (Sonnox)
- Limiter (Sonnox)

Just remember: We ain't talking "radio ready". We're talking "very good sounding demo"

[dhiltonlittle]

if it's your mix and you're happy with it. i'd just throw a l2007 or the like at the end to get the level up where you want it.

[PinnacleProdUK]

iZotope Ozone 4 Complete Mastering System

Try the demo, works fully functional for 10 days.

[MYAMS]

why bother?

[DAH]

For the demo, just mix good and then turn up the gain till it starts distorting and clip at 0.1 dbFS if RMS is needed.
Why bother for real?
IMHO

[mgthefuture]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

why bother?

Good Question.

From my personal experience, and since the mp3.com golden years, the producers with the most "polished" and loud and clear sound, were the most successful.

For alot of "browsing" artists, it's easy to remember a BANGING track, compared to a "low" track with Good dynamics. I had to remember that not everyone has the "ear" for "Good quality" music.

Sometimes they just want to feel and hear the bass, and the track sells! I've had tracks I've worked on the composition for hours, and no one downloaded or requested, because the sonic levels were too low. Once I threw a LM on it, and re-released, I got some good reviews. Technically, I did nothing to it.

So i think it's important, for hip hop atleast, that you have a STRONG reference mix/master just for the consumers. Afterall, once it's in their hands, it will be remixed anyway.

I just made a very similar thread, and got some MAstering Guys here to check out and reference master 2 songs of mine. And they all respectively did a great job. And it does make a BIG difference. Sometimes your mids and lows are all funked up. And it takes that "other" ear to really make "sense" of it all.

One engineer was even kind enough to snapshot the chain he used on the master. And it was impressive to see the different stages he put my track through to get that sound.

Like Amokk, have had and used a similar chain on the Master WAV. But now i'll be more careful on the limiting side of things. And pay way more attention to the EQ.

I like Ozone 4 for that reason. The EQ match is a GREAT reference/preset tool. The mid/side individual modifying is crazy. But I typically only go through all of that on a "song" and not a beat.

But for beats, it's so important to get the EQ levels right. And limit it just right.

With cats like Soleternity / Johnny Juliano / Sho-Down / I.N.F.O all mixing ITB and sounding better than the pros...you reall have to step it up!

[Nahuel]

here's my actual "home loudeezering" receipie: drop an eq with MS on your 2buss (like the LP10 from DDMF) rise the side a bit and cut it's lows + dip low mids, dip the low mids of the middle, eventually drop a gentle compressor with a slow attack, drop somethig with a gain knob to up the peaks somewhere around -3db or use the make up of the comp, drop your limiter, set the ouput at -0.10 and up the input gain till you get the desired level.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

Good Question.

From my personal experience, and since the mp3.com golden years, the producers with the most "polished" and loud and clear sound, were the most successful.

For alot of "browsing" artists, it's easy to remember a BANGING track, compared to a "low" track with Good dynamics. I had to remember that not everyone has the "ear" for "Good quality" music.

Sometimes they just want to feel and hear the bass, and the track sells! I've had tracks I've worked on the composition for hours, and no one downloaded or requested, because the sonic levels were too low. Once I threw a LM on it, and re-released, I got some good reviews. Technically, I did nothing to it.

So i think it's important, for hip hop atleast, that you have a STRONG reference mix/master just for the consumers. Afterall, once it's in their hands, it will be remixed anyway.

I just made a very similar thread, and got some MAstering Guys here to check out and reference master 2 songs of mine. And they all respectively did a great job. And it does make a BIG difference. Sometimes your mids and lows are all funked up. And it takes that "other" ear to really make "sense" of it all.

One engineer was even kind enough to snapshot the chain he used on the master. And it was impressive to see the different stages he put my track through to get that sound.

Like Amokk, have had and used a similar chain on the Master WAV. But now i'll be more careful on the limiting side of things. And pay way more attention to the EQ.

I like Ozone 4 for that reason. The EQ match is a GREAT reference/preset tool. The mid/side individual modifying is crazy. But I typically only go through all of that on a "song" and not a beat.

But for beats, it's so important to get the EQ levels right. And limit it just right.

With cats like Soleternity / Johnny Juliano / Sho-Down / I.N.F.O all mixing ITB and sounding better than the pros...you reall have to step it up!

I feel you, just this is an issue more for people who don't have there production chops- getting loud tracks right awa without much mixing has to do with the sounds you put in and how you arrange. You should be able to get close to commercial loudness jsut by using the sounds straight up, and maybe a limiter on the buss real quick before I bounce it. It should just bump right off the bat.

I have heard some of the people you mention here, and they seem to bank off soundclick by taking there generic sounding beats and mixing em nicely to get em sold off- I guess the point I am making is try getting to a point in your beats where it really doesn't matter if you have no mix the track sounds fire from the start you feel comfortable handing it in to any A&R completely unmixed.

[mgthefuture]

Well the reality has changed. Alot of kids who normally wouldn't have the oppurtunity to make 5k a month, now can due to the overwhelming wave of aspiring artists and hobbyists.

And the psychological fact remains, that artists tend to take the details more serious than a consumer. A consumer (in our case rappers and singers) may have ambitions and motives that by far elevate past creativity and being true to a sound. It's about expression and attention, respectively. And the "hey if i have a shot to make it big, i'll take it, but i'm only really doing this because it feels good".

And for that market of people, you better have some "cookie cutter" tracks ready, because that's what they are looking for! They don't know the difference between an 808 and Acoustic Drum set most times. It's subconscious. So you have to be able to take advantage of that, if you know that there's an unspoken impulse in the humans ability to "familiarize" things...ESPECIALLY Sound.

The more familiar something is, the more likely people will relate to it. And out of that relationship, grows a dynamic that's really unique to what we do online as producers. We want timbalands synth, we want dre's drums, we want storch's strings..because we know someone with a 100 paypal..will be willing to give it to us if we use and find these tools.

Now it's just 100$...to some of you, but to some of us who can make that into 2000$...that beats 8 hours in a restaurant somewhere trying to save for your first car or goto school.

I think people forget that there's still a "lower" class out there, who bootleg software, and make cookie cutter beats, as a mechanism of SURVIVAL.

Once you understand, you may get why there's so many issues about "common sense" to "musicians".

Not everyone is trying to get ON as much as they are trying to get BY.

And this isn't direct specefically to you MYAMS. IT was like a public service announcement.

[DAH]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

Well the reality has changed. Alot of kids who normally wouldn't have the oppurtunity to make 5k a month, now can due to the overwhelming wave of aspiring artists and hobbyists.

And the psychological fact remains, that artists tend to take the details more serious than a consumer. A consumer (in our case rappers and singers) may have ambitions and motives that by far elevate past creativity and being true to a sound. It's about expression and attention, respectively. And the "hey if i have a shot to make it big, i'll take it, but i'm only really doing this because it feels good".

And for that market of people, you better have some "cookie cutter" tracks ready, because that's what they are looking for! They don't know the difference between an 808 and Acoustic Drum set most times. It's subconscious. So you have to be able to take advantage of that, if you know that there's an unspoken impulse in the humans ability to "familiarize" things...ESPECIALLY Sound.

The more familiar something is, the more likely people will relate to it. And out of that relationship, grows a dynamic that's really unique to what we do online as producers. We want timbalands synth, we want dre's drums, we want storch's strings..because we know someone with a 100 paypal..will be willing to give it to us if we use and find these tools.

Now it's just 100$...to some of you, but to some of us who can make that into 2000$...that beats 8 hours in a restaurant somewhere trying to save for your first car or goto school.

I think people forget that there's still a "lower" class out there, who bootleg software, and make cookie cutter beats, as a mechanism of SURVIVAL.

Once you understand, you may get why there's so many issues about "common sense" to "musicians".

Not everyone is trying to get ON as much as they are trying to get BY.

And this isn't direct specefically to you MYAMS. IT was like a public service announcement.

**** cookie cutter for survival. I mean - it may pay the bills but it`s going to **** up your bless if any and taste for many years to go.
IMHO

[MYAMS]

Lol not sure why you made it deep like that I was just giving my experiences in this cause I think people on GS are a little to worried about how there "mix" sounds.

I don't have the mindset of the type of people you are describing but I am sure there is pleanty of people here who can relate. Get that paper!

[mgthefuture]

@ DAH - I agree. But realistically, I know 2 producers from another forum between 2000-2004 they made over 100,000 online selling beats. Driving BMWs and full out studio gear that you could ever want.

One of them are on a production label, doing "light" work..but still relevant behind the scenes.

And the other you may find doing "commercial" work, like game soundtracks and TV. He even quit making beats to learn how to paint..and play xbox. THat's how crazy the money and demand was at one point in time.

You can't front and be like, "nah, im not gonna sell out or atleast have a competitive sound" for the sake of the "future".

Anytime i get around a person with a "go getta" personality, i get charged. Because they don't put no excuse on why they're not successful. They just do it.

Being a lurker myself, and frequenting so many forums...just had me form a few opinions about the state of things, and in particular myself.

You gotta make that choice, create for self fulfillment and follow the road wherever. Or be determined to have a great and competitive sound, and sell what you (logically) know will sale...make THAT.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

@ DAH - I agree. But realistically, I know 2 producers from another forum between 2000-2004 they made over 100,000 online selling beats. Driving BMWs and full out studio gear that you could ever want.

One of them are on a production label, doing "light" work..but still relevant behind the scenes.

And the other you may find doing "commercial" work, like game soundtracks and TV. He even quit making beats to learn how to paint..and play xbox. THat's how crazy the money and demand was at one point in time.

You can't front and be like, "nah, im not gonna sell out or atleast have a competitive sound" for the sake of the "future".

Anytime i get around a person with a "go getta" personality, i get charged. Because they don't put no excuse on why they're not successful. They just do it.

Being a lurker myself, and frequenting so many forums...just had me form a few opinions about the state of things, and in particular myself.

You gotta make that choice, create for self fulfillment and follow the road wherever. Or be determined to have a great and competitive sound, and sell what you (logically) know will sale...make THAT.

Only 100k over 4 years? Something tells me they were involved in other ventures

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by lpuma

here's my actual "home loudeezering" receipie: drop an eq with MS on your 2buss (like the LP10 from DDMF) rise the side a bit and cut it's lows + dip low mids, dip the low mids of the middle, eventually drop a gentle compressor with a slow attack, drop somethig with a gain knob to up the peaks somewhere around -3db or use the make up of the comp, drop your limiter, set the ouput at -0.10 and up the input gain till you get the desired level.

I think it's very subjective, since you don't want to do this for every mix you do. It really depends what the mix needs, and sometimes it doesn't need that much EQing if it was mixed right. I've been liking Ozone for Loudness and Exciters as of late, and I use the Density MKII plug for 2buss compression (Until I get my Alan Smart C2 or another quality comp!).

[mgthefuture]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

Only 100k over 4 years? Something tells me they were involved in other ventures

I think the most one of them made in 1 particular year was 75k...strictly from online work and connections. Nothing major label or company related.

And some kids i know on soundclick now are making 5k (on a good month)

I haven't counted 100k in my life...so even a humble 5k a month for rappers aspiring...would motivate me into a totally different person I'm sure.

That's all about background.

But i'm most impressed with these guys because they are high school drops outs and addicts...but some how find the light to create and deliver....and inspire a whole generation of creators.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

But i'm most impressed with these guys because they are high school drops outs and addicts...but some how find the light to create and deliver....and inspire a whole generation of creators.

Something to aspire to

100k, and how much of that was spent on drugs?!?

I have never heard of kids making 5k a month selling beats, especially how the industry is nowadays. Unless you're working with Major Label artists, chances are you don't make 5k a month selling beats only.

[mgthefuture]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Something to aspire to

100k, and how much of that was spent on drugs?!?

I have never heard of kids making 5k a month selling beats, especially how the industry is nowadays. Unless you're working with Major Label artists, chances are you don't make 5k a month.

Maybe I mis-worded that.

They WERE drop-outs who turned to drugs. But music saved them from that lifestyle and helped them get clarity (since most of them started at 16 and are 25ish now). Art has a way of doing that.

And 5k a month is very easy to make if you're selling exclusives for 500-1000 each. There's so many independent mixtape artists in america...let alone other countries. And if you're visible, they will find you. I cant count how many times i hear the "vibes" or "joooohnnny" voice tag on a mixtape i get locally.

And those guys in result, get work from majors for mixtape work as well, or artists in the "circle" who are upcoming..who pay 5k minimum for a track.

Even if you're leasing 25/50 a track and get 10,000 hits a day..you can see 500 a week..which is just 2k a month...but...the leg work is in promotion and delivering what that audience wants.


Which is why the final product/master is so important when you're competing with the TOP 25 on any given site.

[Nahuel]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I think it's very subjective, since you don't want to do this for every mix you do. It really depends what the mix needs, and sometimes it doesn't need that much EQing if it was mixed right. I've been liking Ozone for Loudness and Exciters as of late, and I use the Density MKII plug for 2buss compression (Until I get my Alan Smart C2 or another quality comp!).

obviousely, that was just a generic example of what I do. I'm actually louderizing a friend mixtape with that receipie as a starting point. yes the density is cool, I use the glue for that personally.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by lpuma

obiousely, that was just a generic example of what I do. I'm actually louderizing a friend mixtape with that receipie as starting point. yea the density is cool, I use the glue for that personally.

I think Ozone 4 would suit you really well for demo mastering. It doesn't need too much thought and it sounds great.

[Ray Sr.]

Mix things the way you want them then add a limiter. For demo purposes of course.
I send the 24 bit track into a mastering program & do the following.
Make sure the project is 32 bit
Remove DC offset
Normalize
High Pass 31hz
Stereo imager
Compress
EQ
Limiter

I'm not an M.E. nor a famous Audio Engineer. Just a guy working with what I was given. I did however go to school for this. Try it.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Ray Sr.

Mix things the way you want them then add a limiter. For demo purposes of course.
I send the 24 bit track into a mastering program & do the following.
Make sure the project is 32 bit
Dither
Normalize
High Pass 31hz
Stereo imager
Compress
EQ
Limiter

I'm not an M.E. nor a famous Audio Engineer. Just a guy working with what I was given. I did however go to school for this. Try it.

And it shows! Everything is great, but always dither at the end! Don't ever dither at the beginning, ever.

[mgthefuture]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I think Ozone 4 would suit you really well for demo mastering. It doesn't need too much thought and it sounds great.

Yeah ozone is the bread and butter when it comes to getting your tracks banging.

I think when you start getting into UAD/Sonnox/Waves/ and others it starts to become a thing of "taste".

but the principles remain constant.

[Cheta]

for a quick GOOD sounding master this is how i usually set up my chain.

•Main output channel
•D82 sonic maximizer (turn middle knob till you get enough fullness/clarity)
•L3 multi maximizer ( move threshold till you get some attention)

and thats that

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Cheta

for a quick GOOD sounding master this is how i usually set up my chain.

•Main output channel
•D82 sonic maximizer (turn middle knob till you get enough fullness/clarity)
•L3 multi maximizer ( move threshold till you get some attention)

and thats that

A Sonic Maximizer is really a no-no for Mastering (Real Masters), but other sonic exciters work, especially the one in Ozone.

[Cheta]

Originally Posted by chrislago

A Sonic Maximizer is really a no-no for Mastering (Real Masters), but other sonic exciters work, especially the one in Ozone.

enlighten me a lil more, the more knowledge the better

[Mr.Amokk]

Thx everyone for sharing some knowledge, I will try different things thumbsup

[Say]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

@ DAH - I agree. But realistically, I know 2 producers from another forum between 2000-2004 they made over 100,000 online selling beats. Driving BMWs and full out studio gear that you could ever want.

One of them are on a production label, doing "light" work..but still relevant behind the scenes.

And the other you may find doing "commercial" work, like game soundtracks and TV. He even quit making beats to learn how to paint..and play xbox. THat's how crazy the money and demand was at one point in time.

You can't front and be like, "nah, im not gonna sell out or atleast have a competitive sound" for the sake of the "future".

Anytime i get around a person with a "go getta" personality, i get charged. Because they don't put no excuse on why they're not successful. They just do it.

Being a lurker myself, and frequenting so many forums...just had me form a few opinions about the state of things, and in particular myself.

You gotta make that choice, create for self fulfillment and follow the road wherever. Or be determined to have a great and competitive sound, and sell what you (logically) know will sale...make THAT.

Or you can be in the middle; being happy but using your brain.
You feel me?

[Say]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

I think the most one of them made in 1 particular year was 75k...strictly from online work and connections. Nothing major label or company related.

And some kids i know on soundclick now are making 5k (on a good month)

I haven't counted 100k in my life...so even a humble 5k a month for rappers aspiring...would motivate me into a totally different person I'm sure.

That's all about background.

But i'm most impressed with these guys because they are high school drops outs and addicts...but some how find the light to create and deliver....and inspire a whole generation of creators.

I also remember one of those cats who was "supporting" with cash and shit a local dealer... lmao...

[Say]

Originally Posted by mgthefuture

Maybe I mis-worded that.

They WERE drop-outs who turned to drugs. But music saved them from that lifestyle and helped them get clarity (since most of them started at 16 and are 25ish now). Art has a way of doing that.

And 5k a month is very easy to make if you're selling exclusives for 500-1000 each. There's so many independent mixtape artists in america...let alone other countries. And if you're visible, they will find you. I cant count how many times i hear the "vibes" or "joooohnnny" voice tag on a mixtape i get locally.

And those guys in result, get work from majors for mixtape work as well, or artists in the "circle" who are upcoming..who pay 5k minimum for a track.

Even if you're leasing 25/50 a track and get 10,000 hits a day..you can see 500 a week..which is just 2k a month...but...the leg work is in promotion and delivering what that audience wants.


Which is why the final product/master is so important when you're competing with the TOP 25 on any given site.

So u mean ur making 5k? Or 2k? Or just the rest of the guys on sclick...?

[Alxi]

MGthefutur.

You seem to have a good understanding of how the online business is going.

Where i'm from the good beatmakers are doing like a few undreeds a month or so. For 500 a week i would quit my day job any time lol.

I don't sell that much... i know i dont have the sound that people are looking for ( or i'm just not going to the right people with it ) but i don't want to be another wanna be timbo and if it makes me less popular then so be it plus i have a lot of things left to learn about creating, mixing and etc

I don't mean to take the focus away from the original subject

but i was always wondering what was the set of mind of someone who is mostly after money and succes. I'm in it for the music.. that's it.. if potential money comes along with minor succes, i'll take it but at the end of the day it's not what drives me.

It's been asked here a lot of times... but maybe you could start a new thread about selling online and give tips, sites and etc to the less business oriented of us

-------------------------

About the original subject.

I usually use an eq going into a multiband going into a stereo tool going into a limiter.

Sometimes i'll just use a limiter if it sounds good enough without having to do all that pseudo-mastering.

Songs on myspace are with limiters only.. you can see that they don't sound all at the same volume plus these are just rough mixes.

-Alxi-