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Getting that gritty NYC 1994 sound without hardware
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Zarathunkya
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#31
5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
  #31
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Thanks for all the wisdom people (I'm the original poster)

I've spotted an Ensoniq EPS16 for sale and I'm going to try it first. Apparently RZA used this to make 36 Chambers (as well as Bring the Pain), and EL-P still uses it to this day (amongst other things of course).

I haven't used hardware at all before, but I look at a computer screen enough at work during my work hours. Im going hardware!

So I can't just plug cords in and have the sounds 'running through' the EPS. That's cool.

FYI my set up will soon be:

Macbook
Logic 8 Express
Ensoniq EPS16
MPC1000
Microkorg

(I haven't got the last 3 items yet. Reason being I'd like my set up to be relatively portable for when I go overseas. Will keep the EPS here in NZ until I get back.)

Thanks again for your help

Peace
#32
5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr-one View Post
Speaking of cassette... I was wondering if anyone ever used those 8-track cassette decks from around the early 90's?

My first recorder ever was the Yamaha MT8X. It had a wonderful, dark, small and grainy sound to it. I kinda miss it. The eq was not remotely flexible but it could alter the tone of the sound radically, especially the mid band.

Personally, I can't say enough good things about composing music in an 8-track environment. You really gotta make choices, nothing extraneous gets by. It either adds to the track in a big way, or it's gotta go.

I use 8-track open reel these days and a couple of small, 8-channel 70's mixers. The tone of it kicks the ass of any daw I've ever used. But mostly it's the creative aspects of working within limitations... awesome.


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#33
5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
My first recorder ever was the Yamaha MT8X. It had a wonderful, dark, small and grainy sound to it. I kinda miss it. The eq was not remotely flexible but it could alter the tone of the sound radically, especially the mid band.

Personally, I can't say enough good things about composing music in an 8-track environment. You really gotta make choices, nothing extraneous gets by. It either adds to the track in a big way, or it's gotta go.

I use 8-track open reel these days and a couple of small, 8-channel 70's mixers. The tone of it kicks the ass of any daw I've ever used. But mostly it's the creative aspects of working within limitations... awesome.


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Actually, I was talking about one of these The Tascam 238 FAQ . I had a lot of fun using those porta-studio type machines, but was never completely happy with the sound. One of my close friends had a Tascam console, already. A brand new reel-to-reel at the time was too expensive, though. I thoughtthe 238/238S would've been a decent way to go... though memories of making pause tapes and trying to DJ with cassettes had me thinking syncing two decks would be a nightmare. I was young, though.
#34
5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
There is no short cut to that sound.

90's era samplers

samples from vinyl

Cut to 2"

mixed in pro studio by real engineers.


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#35
5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinceflow View Post
Which albums or engineers are you referring to with "NYC boom bap" hip hop.. just out of curiosity.

vincent
yeah, if somebody cares to drop some names that'd be useful for some of us lurkers, thanks!
Zarathunkya
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#36
5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossal View Post
yeah, if somebody cares to drop some names that'd be useful for some of us lurkers, thanks!
Here's some album names which have the sound I was speaking of. All are from 1994 give or take a year -

The Sun Rises in the East
Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
Midnight Marauders
Hard To Earn
Enta Da Stage
Stress: The Extinction Agenda
Da Shinin
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Liquid Swords
Blowout Comb
Illmatic
Living Proof
Return to the 36 Chambers


Peace
#37
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
  #37
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you got a new fan Jae, this is all hella good.
#38
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
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A huge part of this sound is the turntable/preamp/mixer that use to cull your samples, and the condition of the vinyl.

Two words: Salvation Army.


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#39
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo View Post
But I wanted to step up to a reel to reel and was looking at Revox. Damn...What about the good Akai reel to reels or actually f*&^k it I'll get a Studer A-something.

The better the open reel deck, the less color and grit it's gonna give you. I've got a Studer A810 here, and it'll cream out and de-digitize anything you run thru it but it is the farthest thing I can imagine from the kind of character o.p. is chasin'. Revox B67 is great for some munge. Any old home hi-fi deal is gonna help a lot.


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#40
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
The better the open reel deck, the less color and grit it's gonna give you. I've got a Studer A810 here, and it'll cream out and de-digitize anything you run thru it but it is the farthest thing I can imagine from the kind of character o.p. is chasin'. Revox B67 is great for some munge. Any old home hi-fi deal is gonna help a lot.


Gregory Scott - ubk
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Thanks for the insight. Maybe you could tell me which machine this is? This is from the Gang Starr video Full Clip. If this is what Premo used then I want something similar but two track. I'm looking just for a mastering deck and was looking at the Revox's, anything with balanced connectors and 15ips. Basically anything just really really 'good' sounding.
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#41
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
  #41
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Chung King House of Metal 1989-1992, I worked with these guys
Jason Meisel (Jam Master Jay), Marly Marl, Sam Sever, Eddie F, Soul Convention, Devante Swing, Sid Reynolds, Shane Faber, Mike Mangini, TrackMasterz, SD50, Frank Heller, Darroll Gustamachio, David Kennedy, John King, Steve Ett, Greg Gordon, Warren Shaw, Mike Fronda, Kevin Reynolds, John Pace, Tony Maserati
For these artists
Brand Nubian, Cypress Hill, Run DMC, The Real Roxanne, Heavy D and the Boys, KMD, The Afros, L.O.N.S., Art of Origin, Young Black Teenagers, Father MC, CC Penniston, Jasmine Guy, Mary J Blidge, Vanessa Williams, Allison Williams, Slick Rick, Jodeci, Red Head, Groove Bee Chill, Powerule

the gear was basically new to everyone at the time, but the studio was more or less the same as what you'd find now. The adventure is in creating, the sound comes from this, it was new groundbreaking and exciting for a while
make your own sounds, if you can't do it alone hire some guys like those mentioned above
I learned from guys who started with other music, the samples really sounded like crap before we got our hands on them, passed through the desk on to tape and back through the desk and then to mastering
years and years of experience and millions of dollars in gear, 14 hour days, 7 days awwek until you dropped
that's how they got the sound
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#42
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
A bit crusher is not gonna do it.

They can be cool for effect but it's not like having a real 12 bit machine.

You can hear a lot of 12 bit beats on my webpage in my sig.

"Snippet" is an example of the s950/sp-1200 combo in full effect. Drums chopped from vinyl, old loop chopped from a vinyl record, s950 filter used on the "verse", cuts/skratches. It's straight throw back and that's how I intended it to be.
man, i checked your page out. Great music! Hitting you up right now.....
#43
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
  #43
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Thanks for the positive feedback, everyone.
#44
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post

Personally, I can't say enough good things about composing music in an 8-track environment. You really gotta make choices, nothing extraneous gets by. It either adds to the track in a big way, or it's gotta go.
That sounds like a good thing to me. No nonsense, just elements that really improve the track. One of the reasons music is so bad these days is because a 8-year old kid can have a 100 tracks on his dad's computer, so producers of today don't learn the importance of concentrating on the important bits, they just layer tons of sounds until all the frequencies are filled. Even if they had good material to begin with, it's all buried under a sea of turd.
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#45
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathunkya View Post
Here's some album names which have the sound I was speaking of. All are from 1994 give or take a year -

The Sun Rises in the East
Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
Midnight Marauders
Hard To Earn
Enta Da Stage
Stress: The Extinction Agenda
Da Shinin
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Liquid Swords
Blowout Comb
Illmatic
Living Proof
Return to the 36 Chambers


Peace
okay thanks, i was on the right track, nyc doesn't really narrow things down much for most brits.
#46
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
Thanks for the positive feedback, everyone.
Hey Jaeone.

i really dig your music.

Style and Grace is often the kind of sound i'm going for, reminds me of Pete Rock-Take you time off the soul survivor record. It sounds Punchy and Open yet lofi and kinda vintage

Care to elaborate a bit on the production and mixing of this one ??

Thanks

Alxi
#47
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alxi View Post
Hey Jaeone.

i really dig your music.

Style and Grace is often the kind of sound i'm going for, reminds me of Pete Rock-Take you time off the soul survivor record. It sounds Punchy and Open yet lofi and kinda vintage

Care to elaborate a bit on the production and mixing of this one ??

Thanks

Alxi
Wow I am surprised anyone on GS feels my music, honestly. Thanks for the feed back again.

As I already said, sometimes I enjoy making throw back stuff, but lately I have been getting into live bass, and more instrumentation. You can hear this on the collabs with my boy fmajor.

But for that track (and many of the others on that page):
-Drums are from a break, sampled/programmed into the sp-1200
-Rhodes samples from a very known musician, chopped and replayed to match the tempo of the beat. Done in the s950.
-Bass line: Me on my microkorg with a patch I made myself from a saw and a tri with a 24 db 4 pole low pass filter.
-Verses: Me (yes I know I am not much of an emcee). The hook is just me stacking myself 3 times. One pass panned left, one center, one right.
-Mic: AT4040
-Pre: Rane MS1b
-Conversion: Maudio 1814 (I use a duet with Logic Pro 8 usually now)
-DAW: PT M Powered 7.4
-Plugs: The regular digi plug ins, lol

The mix? hmmm..what mix?? Haha I can't mix for shit man. I just do everything in my bedroom as best as I can and check on multiple sources.

These days my s950 collects dust. My sp-1200 is still used for drums frequently. EPS16 collects dust as a sampler but gets used a lot as a midi controller. I use my mpc 1000 a lot, bass guitars, etc.

Let me know if you got any other questions. Like I said though, I just "mix" as well as I can in my non treated bedroom. Just havin' fun.
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#48
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #48
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I use an ASR10 with the digital out because I have crappy converters.
Then I use the sample CDS from the 1990's! (Dr Drey, Jazzy Jeff, LA RIOT)

I think the old school sample CDS are better then todays modern packs.
#49
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #49
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Did no one hear what the f*ck this man said?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7rojo7 View Post
Chung King House of Metal 1989-1992, I worked with these guys
Jason Meisel (Jam Master Jay), Marly Marl, Sam Sever, Eddie F, Soul Convention, Devante Swing, Sid Reynolds, Shane Faber, Mike Mangini, TrackMasterz, SD50, Frank Heller, Darroll Gustamachio, David Kennedy, John King, Steve Ett, Greg Gordon, Warren Shaw, Mike Fronda, Kevin Reynolds, John Pace, Tony Maserati
For these artists
Brand Nubian, Cypress Hill, Run DMC, The Real Roxanne, Heavy D and the Boys, KMD, The Afros, L.O.N.S., Art of Origin, Young Black Teenagers, Father MC, CC Penniston, Jasmine Guy, Mary J Blidge, Vanessa Williams, Allison Williams, Slick Rick, Jodeci, Red Head, Groove Bee Chill, Powerule

the gear was basically new to everyone at the time, but the studio was more or less the same as what you'd find now. The adventure is in creating, the sound comes from this, it was new groundbreaking and exciting for a while
make your own sounds, if you can't do it alone hire some guys like those mentioned above
I learned from guys who started with other music, the samples really sounded like crap before we got our hands on them, passed through the desk on to tape and back through the desk and then to mastering
years and years of experience and millions of dollars in gear, 14 hour days, 7 days awwek until you dropped
that's how they got the sound
Marley Marl and everyone from the real golden era of hip hop. This dude was there when it existed.
I got many questions ha ha.
Lucky you.
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#50
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
Wow I am surprised anyone on GS feels my music, honestly. Thanks for the feed back again.

As I already said, sometimes I enjoy making throw back stuff, but lately I have been getting into live bass, and more instrumentation. You can hear this on the collabs with my boy fmajor.

But for that track (and many of the others on that page):
-Drums are from a break, sampled/programmed into the sp-1200
-Rhodes samples from a very known musician, chopped and replayed to match the tempo of the beat. Done in the s950.
-Bass line: Me on my microkorg with a patch I made myself from a saw and a tri with a 24 db 4 pole low pass filter.
-Verses: Me (yes I know I am not much of an emcee). The hook is just me stacking myself 3 times. One pass panned left, one center, one right.
-Mic: AT4040
-Pre: Rane MS1b
-Conversion: Maudio 1814 (I use a duet with Logic Pro 8 usually now)
-DAW: PT M Powered 7.4
-Plugs: The regular digi plug ins, lol

The mix? hmmm..what mix?? Haha I can't mix for shit man. I just do everything in my bedroom as best as I can and check on multiple sources.

These days my s950 collects dust. My sp-1200 is still used for drums frequently. EPS16 collects dust as a sampler but gets used a lot as a midi controller. I use my mpc 1000 a lot, bass guitars, etc.

Let me know if you got any other questions. Like I said though, I just "mix" as well as I can in my non treated bedroom. Just havin' fun.
Thanks for the insight
If it's not about mixing then it's about the gear u use and the way you work with you samples. You are very talented, don't let them tell you otherwise even if it's not technical perfection.

Montreal's french underground is very much about the boom-bab/mid 90's sound. As much as i like that sound.. it is just not in me it seems... i always come up with cleaner, thinner sounding music... need more experience.

Anyway.

Much succes to you

-Alxi-
#51
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #51
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jae i agree too man your shit sounds good and i'm listening through the shittest radio shack speakers haha i know your playing around having fun and say you can't mix for shit but your arrangment and mix sounds tight bro. keep up the good work shit sounds gritty to me lol.
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#52
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #52
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How about recording audio into a VCR? That may be a good idea if you have one laying around.
#53
7th September 2009
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Yo Alxi and Justin:

Thanks again for the love.

If you have any questions about what you hear, just ask. I don't have any secrets but maybe I could help you out some how some way.
#54
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
Yo Alxi and Justin:

Thanks again for the love.

If you have any questions about what you hear, just ask. I don't have any secrets but maybe I could help you out some how some way.
I would like to ask what is your AT4040 vocal technique? Do you have any "reflexion filter" or room treatment? Do you use any OTB stuff?
Or AT4040>Rane MS 1b > interface? So only the Pro Tools plugs?
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#55
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #55
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I work in an untreated bedroom but I made a structure out of steel and pvc plastic pipe that has a V on the floor and a V up in the air, and I hang a moving blanket over the upper V, so it makes it look like a Real Traps Portable Mic Booth. It all collapses and goes under my bed in one minute.

It's just at4040 into rane m1sb or directly into the apogee duet mic pre's. Snippet might be my MXL v67G. It's a great little mic too for $100.

I use a studio projects metal pop filter.

A lot of it just has to do with mic technique. I never need to use de-essing, etc.

It should be known that not all those tracks are mixed. Some are 2 tracks straight out of my machines.
#56
7th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
I work in an untreated bedroom but I made a structure out of steel and pvc plastic pipe that has a V on the floor and a V up in the air, and I hang a moving blanket over the upper V, so it makes it look like a Real Traps Portable Mic Booth. It all collapses and goes under my bed in one minute.

It's just at4040 into rane m1sb or directly into the apogee duet mic pre's. Snippet might be my MXL v67G. It's a great little mic too for $100.

I use a studio projects metal pop filter.

A lot of it just has to do with mic technique. I never need to use de-essing, etc.
Thanks. And - it does sound very good.
#57
7th September 2009
Old 7th September 2009
  #57
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I have and Emu Esi32 Sampler and an Akai S2000 Both With SCSI Cards Linked into My Pc.It really Brings All Of My Samples and wavs to life!With Wavelab I can transfer samples to nad from the sampler and edit on the pc Screen!I can even cut it up or whatever then bounce it back to the samps and get the awesome 90's Enter The 36 Chambers Sound!and to belive I got all of this For only 200!This Sound Cannot Be reproduced!Vintage Samplersare Totally The Way 2 go!And scsi makes then a whole lot Sweeter!
#58
8th September 2009
Old 8th September 2009
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wow this thread is making me want to dig out my eps rack mount w scsi out of storage. either to use it or to sell it!! Im going to go rip my jeru cd right now....
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#59
8th September 2009
Old 8th September 2009
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiz1der View Post
wow this thread is making me want to dig out my eps rack mount w scsi out of storage. either to use it or to sell it!! Im going to go rip my jeru cd right now....
AN EPS!!!!!Ive been searchin for one!but up here most are into computer based reason and fl studio only beats which i Despise!LONG LIVE GEAR!!!!!!!!!
#60
8th September 2009
Old 8th September 2009
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This thread is interesting. On one hand I agree that if you want THAT particular sound you have to get the same tools and use them the same way, but on the other hand if you just use what you got and make it dope, who really cares?
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