Tracking real drums...Ohio Players, Parliament

[SoulSpace]

Don't know if this is right forum, but what the heck. Any old-school (or knowledgable new-school) folks know what was used to track the REAL drums on Parliament or Ohio Players? Pre's, EQ, and compressors?

On my new project I am getting away from drum machines, synth drums, samples, etc. and looking to track some super-funky drummers and this is the sound I am looking for.

My MAIN example: "I Want To Be Free" by the Ohio Players.

Someone on another thread said Parliament was tracked through "Flickenger" (sp) consoles, which I can't find too much info on. Never heard much on the Players.

[cajonezzz]

Shitty drums, tapped down, tight rooms ( dead )

KICK ASS PLAYERS.

not really sure what the scoop was on gear... I know there was a fair amount of gating going on in those days.

[SoulSpace]

Yeah cajonezz,

I hear what you're saying about tight rooms. The f'ing drums on the Player's tracks especially are IN YOUR FACE. I mean, I think the only thing going on with verb/delay is the ambience of the room which is...almost non-existent....That's what I am going for!

I really don't thing they were shitty drums though, especially on the Player's stufff. Parliament...well it's definitely the drummer.

I have the drummers, old-school guys who know what they are doing. I just need to find the right gear.

What kind of gates were you referring to?

[cajonezzz]

well, i remember seeing a lot of "kepex" ? I was a very young guy just starting to record- but that was right smack in that era...

i LOVE the old EWF studio albums, and the drum sounds on the stuff you mentioned.

I think as a general rule, drums didn't have the "note" or resonance in those days that we here today as a "great tuned drum". I think the double ply heads, hydrualics, and that guys weren't as anal contributed to the dead drumsounds.

i know that some of the rooms in those days were SUPER dead. I recorded in a few ( the village, and a couple others I can't remember.. this was mid- late 70's early 80's )

check old AWB and METERS too if your digging that stuff.... Early TOP even...
I'd love to hear from some of the guys that recorded that stuff ( above) and hear the real scoop.

did i hear somewhere that George Massenburg did early EWF? I dunno.

really tho, the player, the player , the player..... throw up some mics and the player will make 90% of the diff. well, maybe 80% with mic placement and beer/smoke choice the next 10 % .

[Igotsoul4u]

Tracking to tape had a huge part in the sound of those drums.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

did i hear somewhere that George Massenburg did early EWF?

yes.

--jon

[themaidsroom]

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

Tracking to tape had a huge part in the sound of those drums.

absolutely - bigger difference in this application than the mic and pre, imo, assuming that
the mics and pres are all good.....



be well



- jack

[SoulSpace]

OK, assuming mics are all good (suggestions would be appreciated), pres are API and Portico, compressors/gates (?). All going to Nuendo via lavry/yamaha.

You know, I agree. It's really all the drummer. But I am SO SICK of the digital sound. Especially when it comes to high hat, snare and kick. It's almost like I need a high frequency attentuation. And a low-mid beef-o-increaser.

So am I looking at some sort of tape emulation device? Portico range, Cranesong, etc? I haven't really tried these devices out.

Not that any of this is really commercially oriented anyway...lol.

[7rojo7]

You hit tape pretty hard to get that sound for the kik sn and toms. limiter, there's a lot of bass in all the sounds, but tight, not wobbly.
Drummer first, but the tuning of the kit is real important
you may end up tuning the kik way higher than anyone does today and really stopping the batter head with cement block resting against a moving blanket, no front head or lugs, throw a blanket or something over the front.
also real tight snares and no ring on the drum element of the sound, probably tuned lower than most snares today, bottom mic not to get the snares but to get the umph.
between the kik and snare you should feel your gutcrunch on the kik and the chestpound on the snare.
mind you that these sounds are like this to leave the real bottom (lift you off your feet) for the Bass gtr.
mic on the HH and cymbal mics instead of OHs (hypercardioids), it interferes with the dryness.
toms tuned higher than normal and well muffled (I even dampen the resonant skin)
coated Emperor on the kik with a kevlar disk and coated Ambassadors on the other drums. I put a strip or 2 of newspaper in the drum to rest on the resonant skin and zero rings on top, you can make your own from old skins.
don't just deaden your room, fill it up the extra space with tube traps or something, anything, even coats hung on chairs.
there are some trigger tricks too. splits. Dolby A HHs.

[HDGuru]

All batter heads with lots of tape, or dead ringers. Take the front head off the kick drum. Never use grapples to mount mic's, use boom stands. Use coles ribbon mic's for overheads, and record in an extremely dead room- instant 70's sound.

[grahluk]

nothin' says 70's drums like shag carpeting in the room. Get yo self some, maybe alot. White is best.

[d.dot]

Yup, Shag carpeting on the walls. When I was first making my bones in the biz, I got to hang around Philly International Studios. (Kenny Gamble, Leon Huff) The place hadn't changed much since the days when they had cut all of the big hits. I remember the drum section had the shag carpet treatment.

I wish BFD (or somebody) would come out with a proffesional collection of dry, dead-assed drums that are usable. I would pay dearly for a library like that. I've been sampling drum hits off of old blaxplotation movies to fill the void.

[claymorestudios]

Toontrack has a funk pack which is friken awesome!

[sleeper1400]

i had the awesome privlidge to work at the detroit studio where most of funkadelic albums were done. (united sound)

there were three rooms.

a "drum room built with 2ft of mineral wool and burlap on all the walls and ceiling. the floor was linoleum tile.

this drum room shared a wall with 2 vocal booths.

all these booths were built inside a HUGE live room. it was so big the had a half court in there. (seriously)

if they wanted a bigger sound, the moved the drums from the small room out side to the large room.
there was one hard wall, that was slightly curved. with an option for a THICK brown pull curtian to cover it.

from what i heard from the old timers. the control room had a neve 8088 and they used DBX160's like a mofo.

that was studio A
--
in studio B the room was smaller, but about the size you'd expect at a normal studio.
there were cedar boards, mirrors, and thick velvet drapes used to adjust the room tone.

aretha's whos zoomin who vocals were cut there ( heresay) as well as anita bakers rapture album. (fact)

the board in there was a neve 4088 ( i think, one again heresay)

with all that equipment and killer room space. it was difficult to get a bad take.

hope that helps.

[ncoak]

Originally Posted by sleeper1400

drum room built with 2ft of mineral wool and burlap on all the walls and ceiling. the floor was linoleum tile.

crazy

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by d.dot

I wish BFD (or somebody) would come out with a proffesional collection of dry, dead-assed drums that are usable. I would pay dearly for a library like that.

There are some very dry drums recorded in a small room coming soon from Toontrack.
My sample set called: Custom & Vintage
Announcement due this Fall/Autumn.

(I love the funky drums on Parliament, Ohio Players and E,W&F albums)

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by SoulSpace

Yeah cajonezz,

I hear what you're saying about tight rooms. The f'ing drums on the Player's tracks especially are IN YOUR FACE. I mean, I think the only thing going on with verb/delay is the ambience of the room which is...almost non-existent....That's what I am going for!

I really don't thing they were shitty drums though, especially on the Player's stufff. Parliament...well it's definitely the drummer.

I have the drummers, old-school guys who know what they are doing. I just need to find the right gear.

What kind of gates were you referring to?

The Ohio Players stuff was recorded at Paragon Studios in Chicago.
It was amedium size room not totally dead but not live-ish.

The monitors were old JBL L 200's.
I recorded some stuff there around the same time period.
The place no longer exists at that location.

Pfunk recorded at a number of places.
United Sound in Detroit,the A room was like an airplane hanger.

Hollywood Sound in LA,studio A was a small very dead room.
Ive recorded at both places and was recording and producing the first Atlantic Starr album at Hollywood sound at the same time.
EWF were also in and out of there.
I was mostly in studio b whch was more up my alley,although I did use a on occasion but I didnt like it.
Recording real drums is an art and if you dont know your shit,dont **** with it.
You COULD come to my studio in Philly and I can school you.

Good luck

[abtech]

Originally Posted by sleeper1400

i had the awesome privlidge to work at the detroit studio where most of funkadelic albums were done. (united sound)

there were three rooms.

a "drum room built with 2ft of mineral wool and burlap on all the walls and ceiling. the floor was linoleum tile.

this drum room shared a wall with 2 vocal booths.

all these booths were built inside a HUGE live room. it was so big the had a half court in there. (seriously)

if they wanted a bigger sound, the moved the drums from the small room out side to the large room.
there was one hard wall, that was slightly curved. with an option for a THICK brown pull curtian to cover it.

from what i heard from the old timers. the control room had a neve 8088 and they used DBX160's like a mofo.

that was studio A
--
in studio B the room was smaller, but about the size you'd expect at a normal studio.
there were cedar boards, mirrors, and thick velvet drapes used to adjust the room tone.

aretha's whos zoomin who vocals were cut there ( heresay) as well as anita bakers rapture album. (fact)

the board in there was a neve 4088 ( i think, one again heresay)

with all that equipment and killer room space. it was difficult to get a bad take.

hope that helps.

The last few times I worked at United, they had a POS Flickinger in A (I was told it was never completely operational). I never saw a Neve console there, but I was not a frequent visitor.