here's my secret for super loud and transparent mixes

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by Id Ridden

Snare clipping? And this is okay?

This may sound as a surprise to you, but sometimes clipping the snare softly as an effect actually sounds very good, it adds a nice snap or click although in my experience it only worked for me with snare thou, i will sometimes duplicate the snare and ill make it clip by adding maybe an eq and raising the output till it mildly clips or maybe ill compress it, and clip the output of the compressor softly, then ill add that signal to the original, its something like a cheap transient designer. I know this sounds crazy, but just try it!

[lerone]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I'll tell you the real answer to your question, the secret is to hire a Mastering Engineer and to never, ever put a limiter on the master bus!

+1 Mista Lago! This is a very bad idea indeed. You need to concentrate on hitting around -12dbfs and then leave the rest for the ME.

[Igotsoul4u]

proop. I like the idea. Makes sense to me.

[rhodesp04]

i just watched tony shepperd's 2nd dvd (focused on R&B) and he uses a limiter and compression on his master along with some other things from the get (i won't reveal it all because you gotta watch the dvd) then mixes into that.

i've been trying that approach for the past week (he also mentions it in his first dvd which is centered around a rock song) or so and i've been very pleased. mind you, i'm no engineer by any means, but if a simple musician/producer like me can make things sound better before a submission everyone's happier.

i'll preface this by saying if anything of mine goes to a mastering pro i'll still send it how i like it because i'm not very trusting haha so if they can improve on it then by all means do so but you're not messing with my engineer's mix because i approved it hahahahahaha

[Joemamma]

Originally Posted by dualflip

I like it when ppl think outside the box, instead of using the same typical "mix magazine" replies like "hire a good mastering engineer", "the importance is in the room", "always cut, never boost". Not saying those things are not true but come on ppl its just boring to hear that over and over again, sometimes from ppl that dont even have a clue of what they are saying.

[Chris Lago]

The answer is boring but it's the only answer that will give you the most optimal results. Why would we waste our time repeating? Maybe it's because someday someone will listen and then say... WOW, why didn't I do that earlier?

[Lipps]

Originally Posted by chrislago

The answer is boring but it's the only answer that will give you the most optimal results. Why would we waste our time repeating? Maybe it's because someday someone will listen and then say... WOW, why didn't I do that earlier?

That answer coming from you?

[proop]

Originally Posted by bakerman

yeah I couldn't follow the timing either. Is it Seggae?

I make beats in the vein of artists like Erykah Badu, J Dilla, Madlib, Battlecat, Dj Quick. All these artists don't use quantization on their instruments. It's definately not a new style.

I removed my beats because i didn't want to create the impression, that the timing results from my technique. The limiters i use are latency free, so there's no influence on the timing.

Of course my techique is not the key to ultimate transparency. It's just better than anything i achieved with a limiter on the master channel.

I'm sorry if i offended anyone by sharing my methods. I didn't want to declare it as a "fact", just something that works for me.

@Methlab, i use the initial setting of the oxford limiter but with auto gain turned off.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by chrislago

The answer is boring but it's the only answer that will give you the most optimal results. Why would we waste our time repeating? Maybe it's because someday someone will listen and then say... WOW, why didn't I do that earlier?

I think that a lot better engineers wasted their times repeating that a long time ago but thanks for letting us know something "new", maybe ppl should just read "the mixing/mastering engineer's handbook" instead of posting anything here, right?

Originally Posted by chrislago

I'll tell you the real answer to your question, the secret is to hire a Mastering Engineer and to never, ever put a limiter on the master bus!

Anyway, maybe you are the experienced mastering engineer you are talking about as your signature implies :

"Carlos Barbosa's latest release, mastered by Chris Lago will be available on beatport in August."

[space2012]

Originally Posted by proop

the main problem with mixing down a track usually is, that even the best limiter makes your sound muddy at some point, and using no limiter, your basses can distort very easily.

Crysoniq SpectraPhy ,
in hard & digital modes, its the most transparent limiter.
no need for complex routings.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Anyway, maybe you are the experienced mastering engineer you are talking about as your signature implies :

"Carlos Barbosa's latest release, mastered by Chris Lago will be available on beatport in August."

Assuming makes both people look stupid, the person who assumes, and the person who is affected by the person who assumes.

Don't ever assume things; make sure you know the real facts to the situation, and the answer is: NO.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I'll tell you the real answer to your question, the secret is to hire a Mastering Engineer and to never, ever put a limiter on the master bus!

By the way, i took the liberty of going to your webpage, and i noticed that all of the albums you mixed, were also mastered by you, weird..., i thought you had to repeat things so ppl could understand the idea of sending their stuff to a mastering engineer and go WOW?

[Methlab]

Lots of pro mixers use limiters on busses in their mixes.

DAW mixing has changed the game so much. There are no rules anymore..do what you want. Anyone who stays conservative now is either a n00b or will be left behind in a few years.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by dualflip

By the way, i took the liberty of going to your webpage, and i noticed that all of the albums you mixed, were also mastered by you, weird..., i thought you had to repeat things so ppl could understand the idea of sending their stuff to a mastering engineer and go WOW?

What can I say, they are happy with my services There's nothing wrong with that at all.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by chrislago

What can I say, they are happy with my services There's nothing wrong with that at all.

Thats good to know, nothing better than a guy whos actions correspond to what he says , give us the next great tip!

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Thats good to know, nothing better than a guy whos actions correspond to what he says , give us the next great tip!

The next great tip would be to stop being on my ass all the time fuuck

[jimmydeluxe]

Originally Posted by proop

I make beats in the vein of artists like Erykah Badu, J Dilla, Madlib, Battlecat, Dj Quick. All these artists don't use quantization on their instruments. It's definately not a new style.

I removed my beats because i didn't want to create the impression, that the timing results from my technique. The limiters i use are latency free, so there's no influence on the timing.

Of course my techique is not the key to ultimate transparency. It's just better than anything i achieved with a limiter on the master channel.

I'm sorry if i offended anyone by sharing my methods. I didn't want to declare it as a "fact", just something that works for me.

@Methlab, i use the initial setting of the oxford limiter but with auto gain turned off.

I wanted to hear the beats! Can you put them back up? Sounds like an interesting technique, I'd like to hear the results, though I can tell it'll probably fatigue my ears, I'm sure it's appropriate for the genre.

Sorry some people are assholes, thanks for going out on a limb and sharing something of use to you--refreshing on this sometimes bitter and tired forum!

[Mr.Amokk]

Originally Posted by proop

the main problem with mixing down a track usually is, that even the best limiter makes your sound muddy at some point, and using no limiter, your basses can distort very easily.

so what i do is put my limiter on a new bus and route all tracks except the snare and some high content only instruments to that bus.

i suggest the stillwell eventhorizon-plus or the oxford limiter for this bus.

theres no limiter on the master channel. the snare might technically clip but most of the track will sound really loud and smooth. you wont hear any clipping.

the reason i don't route the snare to the limiter is, that the snare suffers the most from limiting. other high content only instruments like cymbals or synths don't clip notably so you can remain their dynamics by not limiting them either.

if you're going to try this technique, feel free to report about your results.

Can we hear an example?

[glissando]

Originally Posted by chrislago

The next great tip would be to stop being on my ass all the time fuuck

I can't let this go.

You can't come off as an experienced engineer if you don't record bands/ beds off the floor...

Recording one instrument at a time, recording synths, using samples, loops is all relevant but...

if you don't know how to record/mix a REAL drum kit, you ain't an engineer. You might think you are, but you aren't...and that's only for starters...now add a piano and stand up bass (all in the same room)

for every element you add, the complexity of it increases exponentially...

I've been recording and mixing (studio and live) for over twenty years (on some level or another) and I'm only just starting to think that I do a pretty good job. There are tons of guys who kick my ass as an engineer, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that you know where you are and be there and keep getting better.

I'm absolutely sure that you could be a great engineer in 15 years (maybe even 10) if you keep at it....not sure you got what it takes to stick around that long though.

You got some good skills and great hair....but you have absolutely no right passing yourself off as some kind of recording expert....and especially a MASTERing engineer.

[gorillainthemix]

I actually liked the beats.
Self-help mastering? Do whatever you feel you need to do, but don't expect it to be surgically perfect like the work an experienced mastering engineer would deliver. It's good for your own (demo) reference, or when putting an mp3 up on the net/youtube. However, if you're serious about bringing out your music, getting it PROFESSIONALLY mastered is the way to go. Definitely no offense to the OP.

You know, I actually think it's kind of an insult to the REAL professional mastering engineers to hear how some of you approach mastering in general. If you would talk about mixing engineers like that, Benny and Ken would have you for lunch...I guess the mastering guys don't visit this section much.
Have a look at how some mastering studios are designed and how much $$$'s are involved in realizing such a project. It's a specialism. Do you honestly think our home-studio mastering can compete with that?
I'm pretty happy with what I slap on my Master Fader, but if it's gonna be published all that sh*t will be bypassed. Tracks exported separately, peaks around -18 dBfs. But that's me. Some mastering engineers work analogue and they don't care if you hang around 0 dBfs.

[SubtoneAudio]

First time poster, long time lurker here. I used to do exactly this when mixing ITB. It's a very clever trick for getting a chunky sound without crushed waveform peaks because you're essentially augmenting the flattened peak with a lighter snare not passing through the limiter. It does have to be done with care though. I normally monitor at high volumes when mixing drums as distortion and pumping become more evident.

Since I started grouping all my sounds into seperate outs and mixing on a console, I very rarely run into situations where i need a limiter. I just run my drum bus through some tube compression, load in a reference track, set level, and adjust everything else relative to the drums. My mixes sound so much better doing all the details ITB and summing grouped outs in an analog console. It's the best of both worlds and I feel like I have much more control and more options/techniques at my disposal. I dont think I could ever regress back to an entirely digital system now.

[Joemamma]

Originally Posted by The Dutch Master

Have a look at how some mastering studios are designed and how much $$$'s are involved in realizing such a project. It's a specialism. Do you honestly think our home-studio mastering can compete with that?

In some cases, yes!
In most cases I would chose the mastering facility with great gear, acoustics, and a great engineer over a home-studio mastering.
But if the engineer in the home-studio happened to be that much better than the engineer in the great big expensive mastering studio, then I'd probably use the better engineer.

[Lipps]

Originally Posted by chrislago

The next great tip would be to stop being on my ass all the time fuuck

I gotta say dude, you deserve it. I only recently started patrolling the hip hop forum ( stayed away because ignorance is bliss here) and you have posted some of the most ill informed posts i've seen.


one second you offer your mastering services, a week later you are telling people to go to a REAL ME.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Lipps

I gotta say dude, you deserve it. I only recently started patrolling the hip hop forum ( stayed away because ignorance is bliss here) and you have posted some of the most ill informed posts i've seen.


one second you offer your mastering services, a week later you are telling people to go to a REAL ME.

Thanks, I know I deserve it. I can't tell people to come to me because then I will have to start putting my flame suit on, but yes, I guess any answer I say, I'll have someone tell me that I'm wrong again.

I'll make it real clear for you dumbass... I cannot offer my mastering services because a lot of people would flame me because I'd be promoting my services, on the other hand, I try to be nice to the OP and tell them to get the song mastered by a mastering engineer and I get flammed again?!? I dunno who's more ill informed. People like you who try to flame me for trying to help or people like me, who write honest answers to honest questions. What, did you want me to tell him to get me to master his stuff? Because I could have said that too, and get totally flamed on his thread...

So in conclusion, if you're only in this thread to criticize me and not help the OP, how about you go somewhere else and flame a close peer for the unhappy life that you seem to be living... Because you seem to want to bash only to make yourself feel better, you are a sad individual. My ignore list is getting bigger and bigger.

back to the OP: Get your songs mastered by a Mastering Engineer, that's all I got to say.

[thewurlitzerlife]

I love gearslutz. Someone puts something interesting that they've been doing up and then someone always tells the OP how their ways are inferior. THEN the person who gave the first offense gets offended when someone calls them out.

Done and done!

[Chris Lago]

I know, it's a very funny place, it makes me laugh sometimes.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by Joemamma

In some cases, yes!
In most cases I would chose the mastering facility with great gear, acoustics, and a great engineer over a home-studio mastering.
But if the engineer in the home-studio happened to be that much better than the engineer in the great big expensive mastering studio, then I'd probably use the better engineer.

Well yeah...but where would you want it done? At his house or the studio? It's the whole package. If what you describe is true in your case, I'd consider looking for another mastering studio. I know what you're trying to say though, but that engineer should have no business in that great big mastering studio then
and the "home" guy should.


OT
yes it was loud. Not impressed, I mix commercials almost every day so slamming sh*t is my job. I did like the beats, you should put 'm back up

[glissando]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I know, it's a very funny place, it makes me laugh sometimes.

Uh...he's talking about you.

Anyway.... still think the OP's MIX idea is a good one...maybe just don't clip anything...but ....getting an aggressive mix without it sounding squished is a delicate art form, using limiters in this way can be very useful...not sure how this turned into Chris Lago's mastering seminar

[ryst]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I'll make it real clear for you dumbass... I cannot offer my mastering services because a lot of people would flame me because I'd be promoting my services, on the other hand, I try to be nice to the OP and tell them to get the song mastered by a mastering engineer and I get flammed again?!? I dunno who's more ill informed. People like you who try to flame me for trying to help or people like me, who write honest answers to honest questions.

Originally Posted by chrislago

So in conclusion, if you're only in this thread to criticize me and not help the OP, how about you go somewhere else and flame a close peer for the unhappy life that you seem to be living... Because you seem to want to bash only to make yourself feel better, you are a sad individual. My ignore list is getting bigger and bigger.

This guy really is a sociopath. He must have forgotten what he said in this thread:
Does Mixing ITB Still Sound Sort Of "Narrow" To You?

Originally Posted by chrislago

Dude QU, I just heard some of your beats, and me not being a rap beatmaker, I actually have better rap beats than that... Which says a lot about the beats you make.

For the money you charge, you should be really lucky you're getting that much money.

and...

Originally Posted by chrislago

Maybe not your artists, but I've had some fairly respected producers give me top dollars to do their verses/hooks, so I really could care less about not getting a couple of your gigs when I get the others. Just a thought. And if your boys don't pay top dollars, a couple of labels seem to be going on my ass lately, because they want me as their signed artist... It's only the Major labels so far, you know, not something you would know about.

On an ending statement: The Jays beat the A's Twice in the last 2 days... Makes your baseball team look bad... 5 runs in the 1st inning? lol it was funny to watch.

How was that helpful in anyway??? Chris needs some help. He thinks it's ok to talk shit to other people but when people call him out on his self absorbed BS posts, he gets defensive and acts like the world of GS hates his guts. He is a sociopath.

People like him need to go back to futureproducers. It's perfect for immature (UN)professionals like him. He would fit in much better there.

[cynic one]

this thread is a ****ing trainwreck.

interesting original topic though. i'll have to try that out and see how it sounds on my own stuff.