Mixing dry......

[deuc647]

What up slutz, lately ive been finding that mi y mixes are becoming more dry. I dont mean stale, but im using less reverb and less efx when im doing a mixdown. not to say i dont use any efx, but im really using very lil compression, reverb and delay. Im liking it because its sounding more natural, but im wondering if anyone else is mixing like this or are a lot of you guys really efx heavy?

BTW, i do use efx on vocals.

[ddp]

Originally Posted by deuc647

What up slutz, lately ive been finding that mi y mixes are becoming more dry. I dont mean stale, but im using less reverb and less efx when im doing a mixdown. not to say i dont use any efx, but im really using very lil compression, reverb and delay. Im liking it because its sounding more natural, but im wondering if anyone else is mixing like this or are a lot of you guys really efx heavy?

BTW, i do use efx on vocals.

I've been mixing more dryly lately too! I agree it can sound more natural.
I always start with lots of subtractive eq to scoop out space in the mix.

[ryst]

I rarely us reverb in hip hop unless for an effect. I use a lot of compression though. But IMO, an mix that's keeps the listener interested is one that has effects throughout the song, but done with taste and not too predictable and a few surprises in there too.

[deuc647]

Originally Posted by ryst

I rarely us reverb in hip hop unless for an effect. I use a lot of compression though. But IMO, an mix that's keeps the listener interested is one that has effects throughout the song, but done with taste and not too predictable and a few surprises in there too.

I can see what your sayin, but wouldnt that have more to do with the instrumentation of the song rather than efx? Not arguing with you, just want to know a lil more from your side

[ryst]

Originally Posted by deuc647

I can see what your sayin, but wouldnt that have more to do with the instrumentation of the song rather than efx? Not arguing with you, just want to know a lil more from your side

Of course. It all depends on the song. And my mixes are pretty dry too. My point is that things should be done to keep the listener interested. Ear candy that doesn't repeat too much or just happens once can get the listener to say "i love this part". And that goes with the arrangement of the song too, which I consider a big part in mixing.

But sometimes I won't do much at all to a song because it doesn't need much. But for things like artificial reverb, they are rare for me. Even in a lot of rock that I mix. I do love me some delays though!

[deuc647]

I can relate to the " i love this part", very true. Another thing i tend to stay away from is compression, i dont know why, i just use it when it is extremely necessary. I find that sometimes i can mix using a verb, delay, eq and pan, but then again, im not mixing 100 tracks either. Im talkin instrumentation, not vocals here.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by deuc647

I can relate to the " i love this part", very true. Another thing i tend to stay away from is compression, i dont know why, i just use it when it is extremely necessary. I find that sometimes i can mix using a verb, delay, eq and pan, but then again, im not mixing 100 tracks either. Im talkin instrumentation, not vocals here.

Oh, now I know what you are talking about. I was thinking this thread was about mixing a whole song, not your "productions".

In that case, I don't do much of anything to my own tracks! I usually wait till the song finished tracking because that gives me a better idea of what might be needed.

[Magic Theatre]

I usually like the contrast of having a lot of elements dry and then giving different reverbs to certain parts. It gives in more dimension. I like reverbs in hip hop, some tracks are too dry for me.

[phillysoulman]

I usually have 3 or 4 reverbs ,two delays,a chorus and an extra aux for miscellaneous efx in my initial setup..
A REAL engineer knows his efx pallette and uses it wisely and musically.

[Chris Lago]

I mix dry for the most part, I add analog delay or chorus/distortion, that's it.

[Led]

A lot of what you hear as 'dry' mixes but still with depth often has reverb, just not at a high level. You don't hear it up front, but if you switched it off you would notice the track suddenly become flat and the depth would disappear. Reverb is not a bad thing when it is used well and layered correctly. You would also be surprised how much eq on the reverb returns that can sometimes take. You need to give each one it's own space, just like you need to with the instruments. Nothing you hear in the actual world is dry...

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

I usually have 3 or 4 reverbs ,two delays,a chorus and an extra aux for miscellaneous efx in my initial setup..
A REAL engineer knows his efx pallette and uses it wisely and musically.

question...

was it common back then to have different types of verbs on one song?
or do you mean one type of verb with 3 or 4 different settings?

i mean, 3 or 4 different types of verbs, wouldn't that result in something unnatural? or was a natural sound not even an objective.

thanks.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by beat you down

question...

was it common back then to have different types of verbs on one song?
or do you mean one type of verb with 3 or 4 different settings?

i mean, 3 or 4 different types of verbs, wouldn't that result in something unnatural? or was a natural sound not even an objective.

thanks.

3 or 4 DIFFERENT reverbs ...maybe 2 stereo plates, a stereo chamber and a stereo hall, usually with a Lexicon 480 L.

A lot of times 2 verbs are used on one source.
Its all in the application.
Experimentation is fun and verb is your friend if used in a musical way.

I have no idea why the hip hop community is so afraid of reverb as its a GOOD thing.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

...I have no idea why the hip hop community is so afraid of reverb as its a GOOD thing.

i abandoned it for a while cause i never could get my verbs to sound right.
now i'm experimenting with it again.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by beat you down

i abandoned it for a while cause i never could get my verbs to sound right.
now i'm experimenting with it again.

What verbs are you using?

I can steer you in the right direction if you tellme what plugs you use and like.

First,you should place your verbs on a stereo aux return and use a bus send.

For most rap based stuff depending on the artist, start with short,bright plate maybe at 1 second with maybe a 50ms pre delay and roll of any lower mids from the verb if they are obtrusive.

You can also try a small,bright room with a short pre delay.

For r&b vocals,I like a 2 second bright plate with a 120 ms pre delay.

I hope this helps.

[gorillainthemix]

What Philly said.
My initial setup has a bunch of Aux returns where I place different reverbs (Altiverb: I love the EMT and 80s high-end reverbs) and delay/chorus fx (Echoboy, Waves Doubler).

I'm a reverb junkie. Especially when I'm doing Electro tracks.

[phillysoulman]

I forgot to mention that I love the Altiverb AMS 16 st at 0.5-1.5 seconds for my snare and toms.
I also like the Altiverb "Cello Studio" rooms on my drum buss sometimes depending on the song and the degree of liveness I want.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

I usually have 3 or 4 reverbs ,two delays,a chorus and an extra aux for miscellaneous efx in my initial setup..

That's about the same way I choose to approach effects. It's always good to have some basic effects ready to go before you start mixing so you can test things out on the fly during the mix, and if necessary tweak or change the settings of each effect later.

Depending on the song I may mix completely dry and add in what ever effects last, but most times especially when I'm working in Pro Tools, I will have a whole palette of effects setup and ready to go.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

I forgot to mention that I love the Altiverb AMS 16 st at 0.5-1.5 seconds for my snare and toms.
I also like the Altiverb "Cello Studio" rooms on my drum buss sometimes depending on the song and the degree of liveness I want.

My favorite go-to plugin verb in the past has been Wizooverb. I like Altiverb's plate on vocals a lot though.

[T. Gundersen]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

What verbs are you using?

I can steer you in the right direction if you tellme what plugs you use and like.

First,you should place your verbs on a stereo aux return and use a bus send.

For most rap based stuff depending on the artist, start with short,bright plate maybe at 1 second with maybe a 50ms pre delay and roll of any lower mids from the verb if they are obtrusive.

You can also try a small,bright room with a short pre delay.

For r&b vocals,I like a 2 second bright plate with a 120 ms pre delay.

I hope this helps.

Good info! I usually go for 50-80 ms predelay on the plate verb but the idea is pretty much the same. Using BREVERB or IK Multimedia CSR Plate atm but working on getting an actual EMT 140 Plate to the studio too.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by T. Gundersen

Good info! I usually go for 50-80 ms predelay on the plate verb but the idea is pretty much the same. Using BREVERB or IK Multimedia CSR Plate atm but working on getting an actual EMT 140 Plate to the studio too.

for the real plate!!

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by PettyCash

My favorite go-to plugin verb in the past has been Wizooverb. I like Altiverb's plate on vocals a lot though.

I really like Wizoo verb as well.
I dont hear too many peeps talking aboutit but it really has a classy vibe about it.

I really like the "default setting" for alot of apps.

[Led]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

for the real plate!!

mmm...real emt plate with 1/4 inch machine as predelay..drool...dribble..

[ryst]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

3 or 4 DIFFERENT reverbs ...maybe 2 stereo plates, a stereo chamber and a stereo hall, usually with a Lexicon 480 L.

I have no idea why the hip hop community is so afraid of reverb as its a GOOD thing.

When I mix hip hop, I'm not afraid of verb at all. For early reflections and short "verb" sounds I like a stereo delay better a lot of times. Although sometimes nothing beat an EMT 140 plate.

And when their is real instruments in the hip hop track, especially on my tracks (like classical guitar), I definitely add some verb to it. But I rarely add a long verb to vox unless it's for effect or when their is a shouting chorus. I do the reverse verb effect a lot too.

Like always, "it depends".

[deuc647]

Im not scared to use reverb, i just feel that a lot of todays music is really heavily based on efx. I mean i love plate verbs, but too much verb( like you hear in todays music) is not my thing. Ive been leaning towards drier mixes myself.

Led, you made a good point. I know most things have efx already, i was mostly talking when it comes to mix time. I dont use 3 or verbs like philly does, i find that i can get a lot of things done with a good plate verb and some eq. When i was on PTHD, the eventide bundle had one of the best verbs ive ever heard hands down.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

What verbs are you using?

I can steer you in the right direction if you tellme what plugs you use and like.

First,you should place your verbs on a stereo aux return and use a bus send.

For most rap based stuff depending on the artist, start with short,bright plate maybe at 1 second with maybe a 50ms pre delay and roll of any lower mids from the verb if they are obtrusive.

You can also try a small,bright room with a short pre delay.

For r&b vocals,I like a 2 second bright plate with a 120 ms pre delay.

I hope this helps.

thanks.

i'm on sir, dverb and rverb, sir i like best.
i've tried your previously posted emt 140 settings for 70's stuff emulation.
works for me!

[FiveP]

Originally Posted by ryst

I rarely us reverb in hip hop unless for an effect. I use a lot of compression though. But IMO, an mix that's keeps the listener interested is one that has effects throughout the song, but done with taste and not too predictable and a few surprises in there too.

Im with you on a drier mix. I do a good bit of sampling so I find that most of the material is already well mixed/compressed/etc., however I like etch out the dynamics of whatever I hear in the sample in order to add it to what Im playing on violoin/piano/other samples.
Would you agree that it depends on workflow too? For instance I feel like going to dry is an obstacle to the creative process when your drums are washed out by an undercomped bass or something similar. usually i like to keep enough headroom to add a little bit of comp to everything and revisit the sculputre at the end
I ALWAYS verb my violin lol, I really like the strings to ring out and hve little decay and the best way to achieve this is with some reverb so its easier to fit into the dynamics of the beat. Once I get more outbourd gear I'm sure I will be overly into mixing at unneccesary times lol.

[Ryan West]

Try using VERY short effects for a dry but spacious sound. They can give dimension and space without sounding washed out. Short verbs....350ms or less...timed to the song....short delays at 120ms or less...timed with the song and panned a little. You can spread out a vocal of sample with a short delay to add some depth by panning the dry signal in one direction and the delayed in another. Mess around...find what works for you. I find that by keeping mixes clean initially, I can add larger, more specific verbs and delays a bit later in the mix... and make it really special! Mixing is about subtlety... so spend lots of time defining the space in your mix with the right effects. Most songs that sound "dry" on the radio actually have a series of short verbs and delays in there! Don't forget to think about EQing and compressing those effects. You might find something really cool.

[deuc647]

Thanks Ryan for coming in and giving some tips here, greatly appeciated. Would you agree that a lot of todays music is processed too much? The short verbs and delays is something imma try, thanks

[glissando]

Originally Posted by ryst

Of course. It all depends on the song. And my mixes are pretty dry too. My point is that things should be done to keep the listener interested. Ear candy that doesn't repeat too much or just happens once can get the listener to say "i love this part". And that goes with the arrangement of the song too, which I consider a big part in mixing.

But sometimes I won't do much at all to a song because it doesn't need much. But for things like artificial reverb, they are rare for me. Even in a lot of rock that I mix. I do love me some delays though!

I like the way you think.