The beginning of the end of rap was...

[Big 3rd]

What up, I'm here to discuss this genre of music that we all love. I am 29 and at this point in my life, rap still has me captivated. But.... and there is a but..... this genre has taken such a fall that I think the only thing that can save it is the public's outcry that demands for true talent to bleed through the cracks, at least more often.

But what has put this genre in this critical position? Many people have touched on this subject but very few have gone deep enough to reach the true root of it all.

THY ANSWER:

NO LIMIT RECORDS

I know some of you are either laughing and thinking this is about to be some conspiracy theory or some form of hatin' session. Nall brah! Hear me out.

Think back when the rap game was at its peak. ...........are you there yet? ....Ok, now.... if you are where I am, the faces that pop up immediately would be DRE, PAC, Biggie, the beginnings of Jay Z, Oukast, Eightball and MJG, Face, and a host of underground champs like Spice 1, Yuk, UGK, Brotha Lynch, C-BO, Big Mike, etc, etc, so we are talking around 1995-96. Now mind you I was so much into rap that I would blindly buy albums just because of its presentation and who might've been featured on it. In doing so, I had bought Master P's "99 Way to Die" 2 years before the country knew about him. And at the time, I liked it. Of course this was before he started that Uhhhhhhhhhnn crap.

Now don't get me wrong, P was an absolute genius as far as the business was concerned, but he killed the art.
What he did was.... he started putting the pics of all the upcoming albums of his label in the inside cover of his current album. Don't forget this was a time where artist would spend about a year to 2 years between albums. I'd like to think it was because of the quality time that was put into the music. But, I'm sure there was business issues involved also.
Ironically, right after Pac was killed, P was open for business. He would just throw ablums together and push the hell out of them. It seemed like there was a No Limit album out every week. To me, that's cool...... that is if the sh#t was quality rap. Master P single handedly let every person know that they can rap and become rich without knowing how to rap. Master P also, single handedly made the industry force feed the public any artist that made a hit. Meaning if your first album dropped today and it sold well, then you better had dropped another in 6 months. No more spending time on making an album of quality. Unless you were Dre or some other already well established artist/producer, you had to drop and drop quick. The word "hit" means something totally different now. It really means "the song that gets regular rotation on the radio and the video shows via the dinero", it no longer means "the song that is so sweet that it is undeniably something most will like."

Now this opened the door to

Cash Money, Nelly, Lil Jon,

and many, many, many, MANY OTHERS.

All of which, would have never survived before the Master P era.
Why? Because the game was too competitive, talent-wise. There was no room for it. That in itself, tell you how much of a genuis P was as a businessman.

Oh yeah, let's not forget the lack of originality in today's music. He made it cool to steal other artists' punch lines, phrases (Only God Can Judge Me), names (Ice Cream Man aka Yukmouth), looks (look at the inside cover of Silk "the wackest rapper of all time" Shocker's second album.... look kinda lika the All Eyes on Me album cover, don't it? ) and of course music. The crutch of sampling previous hits would never exist as strong as it does now if there was no Master P. He took the hard work of writing and producing quality music and put it in the business and some catchy yet terrible hooks (Uhhhnn, Na Na Na Na!). And now this is where the rap industry is. Go ahead scan through the No Limit albums... you will see how many beats, phrases, and etc that look and sound familiar to you. It's a shame and many of you fell for it. I remember when P was at his peak and many would defend his lack of skills with a good "He makin' money 'tho" statement, which still said nothing about why it was worthy of being purchased.

I could talk about this subject all day but I'm eager to hear your opinions and thoughts.
Holla at me.

[jlotto]

P was doing it for his fans in New orleans and the rest of the country just got on board.

P is not the reason every new york rapper has 'hustla on the corner" persona from 1999 and couldnt tell a story to save their lives on a cd.

down south artists u mentioned are trying to get to a different place with thier music than your favorite rapper. It's never been about the lyrics. they just wanna party and people like to have a good time. music dont have to be angry all the time like it is in NY.

People wanted to be down w/ no limit the same way they wanted to be down w/ cash money, ruff ryders, rocafella, swishahouse, g-unit, d-block, shady, dipset, etc. Fans like to be part of movements like the one's mentioned. You have to give them that for them to be attached. All the down south artists have local followings that buy their indy projects and still support when they are signed to majors. I live in NY and this is hater central. they dont even support their own artists here.

Rap went bad up north when BIG and Pac died. Those guys gave u albums that ran the gamut of emotions, they put u places, u saw visuals, and the albums had themes. NY rappers got stuck in 1999 jayz persona. Jay stopped doin that 5 years ago and he moved on. "On the block, moving weight, i'll shoot you, etc." is the up north rapper story and it's been boring since 1999.

Just becuase P had a "get paid on quantity shipped" deal w/ priority is the reason he threw out mad artists. But it's not the reason for the rest of the rappers stopped advancing their craft. Listen to the albums from the past 5 years. P is far from the reason we have so many below average rappers.

DMX was actually the first big rapper to put out 2 albums in 1 year. Then Jay-z set it off and did it and the rst is history.

[Eemo1]

oh come on, you don't have to listen to that crap what they show on mtv. hiphop didn't make a fall, hitpop just surfaced and white boys started wearing do-rags.

there's plenty of good artists out there: rhymesayers, living legends...

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by jlotto

P was doing it for his fans in New orleans and the rest of the country just got on board.

P is not the reason every new york rapper has 'hustla on the corner" persona from 1999 and couldnt tell a story to save their lives on a cd.

down south artists u mentioned are trying to get to a different place with thier music than your favorite rapper. It's never been about the lyrics. they just wanna party and people like to have a good time. music dont have to be angry all the time like it is in NY.

People wanted to be down w/ no limit the same way they wanted to be down w/ cash money, ruff ryders, rocafella, swishahouse, g-unit, d-block, shady, dipset, etc. Fans like to be part of movements like the one's mentioned. You have to give them that for them to be attached. All the down south artists have local followings that buy their indy projects and still support when they are signed to majors. I live in NY and this is hater central. they dont even support their own artists here.

Rap went bad up north when BIG and Pac died. Those guys gave u albums that ran the gamut of emotions, they put u places, u saw visuals, and the albums had themes. NY rappers got stuck in 1999 jayz persona. Jay stopped doin that 5 years ago and he moved on. "On the block, moving weight, i'll shoot you, etc." is the up north rapper story and it's been boring since 1999.

Just becuase P had a "get paid on quantity shipped" deal w/ priority is the reason he threw out mad artists. But it's not the reason for the rest of the rappers stopped advancing their craft. Listen to the albums from the past 5 years. P is far from the reason we have so many below average rappers.

DMX was actually the first big rapper to put out 2 albums in 1 year. Then Jay-z set it off and did it and the rst is history.

I feel what you sayin.....HOWEVER.... don't get it twisted. P DID NOT PUT THE SOUTH ON THE MAP. Don't forget about Rap a Lot, Oukast, and Eightball and MJG. These are the pioneers that put the south on the map. P just so happened to be from the south and started the "mass production/quantity over quality" era. Don't loose focus off the ball man, the public is 80% followers and 20% leaders. The public is stupid. He knew this and any business savvy mind knows this. If you stay in the publics eyes and ears long enough.... THEY WILL FOLLOW. THEY WILL FOLLOW WHAT YOU SAY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING, especially if it is making money OR at least APPEARS so. Know the power of the airways! Before it took some big wig to listen to the music, see the potential of it being a hit and giving that artist a shot on the radio. Now... you could be the wackest rapper in the world but for the right price, you will be on the radio, BET, and MTV, that is ....AS LONG AS YOU SOUND LIKE EVERYONELSE. And if you don't and you made it, it is because there is someone that's currently hot backing you. All thanks to the honorable Perry. Once again, remember, don't underestimate how stupid people are. If you every seen footage of Master P after having been asked about the actual music, then you would see that he let it be known that IT WAS STRICTLY ABOUT THE MONEY. There was no love of the art involved.
Now of course before Biggie and Pac died, there was wack music here and there. There was sampling here and there. Hell, rap is made up of many different styles of music. But the sampling that took place before master p was, at least, respectable. Now.... they just put on a record, press record with original lyrics and all, cut, paste, trim, add a kick, a snare, and call it producing. BULLSH#T!!!
This type of production would not be tolerate at the level it is right now, if Master P didn't open the gates to the "much less than stellar artist." You know the "I bangs in my white tee, I slangs in my white tee" type of so-called-artists.

All you have to do is sit and really think back how and when it all went, literally, down.

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by Eemo1

oh come on, you don't have to listen to that crap what they show on mtv. hiphop didn't make a fall, hitpop just surfaced and white boys started wearing do-rags.

there's plenty of good artists out there: rhymesayers, living legends...

Yes, there are plenty out there. They are just not on the radio or the shelfs at best buy. You know where they are? They are on the streets, standing outside the party store, trying to sell you their album or they are #31 on the top fifty.

And Em is a great MC, regardless of his skin color. But do you honestly think Nelly and Lil John would be as big as they are if they were out at the same time the Chronic, All Eyes on Me, Ready to Die, Doggystyle, and etc was bangin?

[Eemo1]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

Yes, there are plenty out there. They are just not on the radio or the shelfs at best buy. You know where they are? They are on the streets, standing outside the party store, trying to sell you their album or they are #31 on the top fifty.

And Em is a great MC, regardless of his skin color. But do you honestly think Nelly and Lil John would be as big as they are if they were out at the same time the Chronic, All Eyes on Me, Ready to Die, Doggystyle, and etc was bangin?

i agree on em, but i don't like his music. im into battles, freestyle, the things that makes hiphop interesting. i don't see nelly doing that, seems like all he (and many many others) does is make songs for girls. im not a girl so...

i like more pure stuff where i hear that the artist speaks from his heart. i personally don't need to be "big" or make a ton of money.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

And Em is a great MC, regardless of his skin color. But do you honestly think Nelly and Lil John would be as big as they are if they were out at the same time the Chronic, All Eyes on Me, Ready to Die, Doggystyle, and etc was bangin?

MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were.....

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by Teacher

MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were.....

You know at first I thought you had me but.....and there is a but...

I will give you several reasons why those are bad examples and I hope you write back, whether you agree or disagree.

MC Hammer
1. was not a great rapper but he was a phenominal dancer and even better an original one.

2. His career was not at the top when the Chronic, Doggystyle, All Eyes on Me, and etc were out. He peaked slightly earlier than those albums. That was back when rap was changing or better yet, advancing. New styles were popping up all the time. Ex. From Bone to Snoop to E40. Not now buddy.

Vanilla Ice

He fell in the perfect era. Like I said, rap was giving birth to all types of new styles. It was time to have a white rapper that couldn't rap. That was the time to pull that off.

Understand that my point in this whole thread is to show how rap has stop growing. Hammer and Vanilla Ice were prime examples of how far rap has come. They were supposed to be considered wack by todays standards. But, todays rap is NOT supposed to be considered wack by yesterdays standards. Look at it this way, in progression of rap itself, Run DMC, Cool Moe Dee, and Kurtis Blow was great but not greater than Big Daddy Kane and Scarface . BDK and Face are great but not greater than Nas, Em, Andre, Jay Z, and Biggie. But Lil Jon, Nelly, Jim Jones, Ying Yang Twins, and blah blah blah couldn't hold BDK or Faces jock strap.
Do you see where I'm coming from? We are going down. The creativity has come to a complete halt. Now?..... " Let's just sample everything and make up a catchy hook, f#ck the verses or doing something that's never been done before. I wanna get paid."

But don't worry, that Big 3rd album will be out to change things. At least just a little.

[Kestral]

This is like listening to women talk about shoes

[nukmusic]

LOL....... this is a funny topic but, cat is right in a few ways. P did change the game. His actions redefined the meaning of "Independent Record Label" hands down. It opened a lots of eyes, AND HANDS. Major labels really wanted a piece the rap. And many cats now thought they could make it big by starting a "get-rich-quick" record label But most just didnt understand how he did it. What he did wasn't really anything new to the industry. He just did it DID IT. Record labels have been force feeding its listenings, but most had good quality music. P just dropped an "ok" artist or 2 every month, that got 1 or 2 radio singles, a month or so of street promotions, and that's it. Sell a few units and move to the next artists. He did have a few talented artists though. It was basic business promotions.....reach as many customers as you can. and he did that with radio play. An artist can distribute promo cds, posters, post cards, mp3s on a website, perform live.............but nothing gets you more promotion that consistant radio play, so that's where P put most of has money . Some things folks don't know and some folks will never know. But for the ones that do, know it was nothing new. But it was never done on a scale of that he did it.
I heard all kinds of stuff dealing with record labels, radio stations, Sound Scan staff, cd distributers, record stores..............man the list goes on and on.

also..... the south has always had a few brand name rappers. But now made more cake than No Limit Records.

Man P is to blame for alot of it. But let me clarify a few things. P did not sell his records in New Orleans. Hell most of us didnt like the shit.. Also we dont group Cash Money and No limit together. AT cash money the first Juvenile album (which did 5 mil) was a dayum good album. So were some of the others. Right now Lil wayne has the Al green vibe on the radio and it's pretty good


Now what P did cause is records from Baby and Mannie fresh. Which began as joke records and ended up selling so they went with it.

P only sold because of the Death of Big and Pac. But lets face it when Big and Pac were alive they were the ONLY cats selling really. So why is it that 2 guys were able to sew up an entire industry???? AT their death P flooded the market (I personally know most of the artists and dont like alot of the music.) But the behind the scenes story is that some of the Artists were pretty good before getting with P, but getting money made all of them IMO doubt their artistry "I've been doing it my way forever and not making a dime. But maybe this dude is on to something because he is making dough"

Plus artists like mystical were content with being the best at NO LIMIT. He didnt care what the world thought because he was making dough. I've known him since he started. he was pretty good. But NO limit was his artistic demise.

Now 2 things I disagree on is No limit being the reason people take from old songs. LOL if the sample web site was still up you'd realize not many New York artists made a record with no samples

The second is NELLY. I'm not a huge fan as I prefer more hardcore hip hop, but I cauhght Nelly at Jazzfest. Truth is Dude is talented. I always look at an artist to see what he has to offer artistically. I try to figure why he has a niche. With P Believe me I couldnt tell you the entire world thinks he sold somewhere else. (we in New Orleans werent crazy about it) but with Nelly "It's getting hot in Here" WAS a HIT REcord as was "pimp juice" and some others. DUDE has a niche and I understand how he serves it.

The world has seen an inaccurate picture of New orleans Rap. If you wanna hear the real I'm the one 2 give it to ya but dayum no limit had EVERYBODY feeling like if P can sell then I'm a rapper

I say this If you wouldnt want a doctor operating on you if he wasnt good, then why accept it from rappers that arent rappers.

Truth is Truth

Ok honestly I hated No LIMIT and never bought a record because I knew the artists when they had more talent in their records and I didnt like how they all "dumbed down at no limit" Part of the reason was because P had control of EVERYTHING your record hhad to be approved by HIM or no record which equals NO check

I look at Nelly records as like Salt and Peppa, Sweet T, Whodini. All valid good entertaining records hell even LL is in that category. Now P, Man he fooled the world into thinking he was sellin in New ORleans.

But when Big sampled the Isley's Between the sheets you didnt complain because you liked it. Ready to die is full of samples. Dont blame the sampling. Just say YOU DONT LIKE P (I aint his biggest fan either.)


But we do have to question why the world bought him more than others

Also consider he had Pac in a video released right after his death and forged people to think affiliation

What happened to ORganized noise though. You want to point to who should have taken over it was Outkast. but they got away from baseball jerseys and good music when Andre became eccentric. Man Organized was on their way. That En vogue song, THe Outkast albums, Goodie Mobb, Society of Soul

THIS was the GOOD shit. Scarface should have linked with Organized noize and outkast, the south would have shined

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Ok honestly I hated No LIMIT and never bought a record because I knew the artists when they had more talent in their records and I didnt like how they all "dumbed down at no limit" Part of the reason was because P had control of EVERYTHING your record hhad to be approved by HIM or no record which equals NO check

I look at Nelly records as like Salt and Peppa, Sweet T, Whodini. All valid good entertaining records hell even LL is in that category. Now P, Man he fooled the world into thinking he was sellin in New ORleans.

But when Big sampled the Isley's Between the sheets you didnt complain because you liked it. Ready to die is full of samples. Dont blame the sampling. Just say YOU DONT LIKE P (I aint his biggest fan either.)


But we do have to question why the world bought him more than others

Also consider he had Pac in a video released right after his death and forged people to think affiliation

What happened to ORganized noise though. You want to point to who should have taken over it was Outkast. but they got away from baseball jerseys and good music when Andre became eccentric. Man Organized was on their way. That En vogue song, THe Outkast albums, Goodie Mobb, Society of Soul

THIS was the GOOD shit. Scarface should have linked with Organized noize and outkast, the south would have shined

This is good shit. Good convo.

Now you kinda struck a nerve with me. Kast is my favorite rap group, probably of all time. Many have said that Outkast fell off from their 1st album. And since you mentioned the jerseys and what-not, I'm assuming you are saying the same thing. First off, the first album was classic. I think any hip hop head would agree. ATliens, great but not classic but great. Some would agree but some wouldn't, but, Aquemini was there best work and, I think, was probably one of the top five greatest rap albums of all time. But that's just me. That album inspired a lot of my work today. Now all albums after that had classic songs here and there, but the albums were just good to decent. However, the reinventions of Oukast is what the industry is starving for. If there was more of that very thing that you claimed what made them fall off, then the industry would not be where it is now. It would be advancing, ONCE AGAIN.

Leave Kast alone, man.

[Stoneface]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

And Em is a great MC, regardless of his skin color. But do you honestly think Nelly and Lil John would be as big as they are if they were out at the same time the Chronic, All Eyes on Me, Ready to Die, Doggystyle, and etc was bangin?

I think Nelly defiantely would have survived and probably did pretty much what he did when he did come out. BLOW UP!! I don't know why Nelly takes so much heat. He's got alot of talent for the style of Hip-Hop he does. Just because some don't like his music don't mean he ain't talented. He come on the scene with a new sound, style and reppin' the Midwest to the fullest. Just because mainstream wants to duplicate him in every other new artist coming out don't make him wack. It's makes them wack.

Lil Jon would never had survived that time period. People wouldn't have been ready for all that.

The beginning of the end of Hip-Hop??? That's just a silly statement. Maybe it's time for those reaching the 30 mark to accept that you are not 20 years old anymore. As you grow music takes on new meanings and directions. But cookie cutter rappers wern't much different 10 years ago from what they are now. You're just getting older and the pop rap doen't impress as much as it did when you were much more immature.

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by Stoneface

The beginning of the end of Hip-Hop??? That's just a silly statement. Maybe it's time for those reaching the 30 mark to accept that you are not 20 years old anymore. As you grow music takes on new meanings and directions. But cookie cutter rappers wern't much different 10 years ago from what they are now. You're just getting older and the pop rap doen't impress as much as it did when you were much more immature.

You know it would be easy for me to be immature to your post and return a post with insults but you make an extremely good point. I think about that very thing when I'm asked for my opinion about some new rapper that came out. I don't listen to the radio at ALL anymore. I don't know who is hot or who is not anymore, really. And this is the honest to God truth. I mean... your right... I am getting older and my expectation of rap music is at an all time high. My mind is not ready to except bubble rap anymore. At this stage, I'm looking for the true MC. The Busta Rythmes', the Eminems', the Canibuses, the Andre 3000s, the Nases'. I WANT TO HEAR STYLE, DELIVERY, and most of all, CONTENT. I don't want to hear about how many keys you sold or "up in da club we do dis, we do dat", blah, blah, blah. You know? I like it when I'm cleanin the crib or washing dishes and got something bangin, and I hear something new and thought provoking. Or something that makes me want to stop what I'm doing, run to the basement to the studio, and start creating another masterpiece. Can't do that nowadays. YOU KNOW? Tell me YOU KNOW, MAN. I remember when you could literally buy a CD blindly and it have a good chance of being good.
Now I say that with the realization of me knowing that a lot of what I used to like is not as interesting to me as it once was. Like I can't listen to MC Eiht like I used to. When I listen to it now, it sound like good beats with bullsh#t content. It's like I'm more content picky. But that keeps me writing flame sh#t without getting tainted by today MCing standards, also.

Nowadays, I just do my own thang without giving a sh#t about what the competition is doing. I feel true talent always shines through Bullsh#t, especially if there is ambition with it.

[Stoneface]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

You know it would be easy for me to be immature to your post and return a post with insults but you make an extremely good point. I think about that very thing when I'm asked for my opinion about some new rapper that came out. I don't listen to the radio at ALL anymore. I don't know who is hot or who is not anymore, really. And this is the honest to God truth. I mean... your right... I am getting older and my expectation of rap music is at an all time high. My mind is not ready to except bubble rap anymore. At this stage, I'm looking for the true MC. The Busta Rythmes', the Eminems', the Canibuses, the Andre 3000s, the Nases'. I WANT TO HEAR STYLE, DELIVERY, and most of all, CONTENT. I don't want to hear about how many keys you sold or "up in da club we do dis, we do dat", blah, blah, blah. You know? I like it when I'm cleanin the crib or washing dishes and got something bangin, and I hear something new and thought provoking. Or something that makes me want to stop what I'm doing, run to the basement to the studio, and start creating another masterpiece. Can't do that nowadays. YOU KNOW? Tell me YOU KNOW, MAN. I remember when you could literally buy a CD blindly and it have a good chance of being good.
Now I say that with the realization of me knowing that a lot of what I used to like is not as interesting to me as it once was. Like I can't listen to MC Eiht like I used to. When I listen to it now, it sound like good beats with bullsh#t content. It's like I'm more content picky. But that keeps me writing flame sh#t without getting tainted by today MCing standards, also.

Nowadays, I just do my own thang without giving a sh#t about what the competition is doing. I feel true talent always shines through Bullsh#t, especially if there is ambition with it.

MC Eiht is a perfect example. I had a similar experience with MC Eiht once, digging throught the "crates". Of course, MC Eiht's career was DEAD once DJ Quik hit em with the, "You left out the "G" cuz the "G" ain't in you."

I feel you 100%. I too am 29, headed to my 30's. I had to realize that it wasne't that things were much diffenent now, then back then but that I was different back then. Back then it wasen't washing dishes and being responsible. It was doing as much as possible to stay irresponsible and avoid growing up.

Some would say those of us in this age bracket are over the hill but as I've said before, I believe it is this age bracket that has the niche to talk about things that are relevant to a more mature audience. All those that grew up in the 80's and 90's and bought the millions of records sold back then are just as frustrated with Hip-Hop as we are. So in reality, it's our fault that we haven't given the people what they want. We're the ones with passion and drive to make the music that moves the soul, so why aren't we stepping up?

If Hop-Hop is dying, it's easy to blame pop music. But if it's really dying, why are we standing by and letting it die?

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by Stoneface

MC Eiht is a perfect example. I had a similar experience with MC Eiht once, digging throught the "crates". Of course, MC Eiht's career was DEAD once DJ Quik hit em with the, "You left out the "G" cuz the "G" ain't in you."

I feel you 100%. I too am 29, headed to my 30's. I had to realize that it wasne't that things were much diffenent now, then back then but that I was different back then. Back then it wasen't washing dishes and being responsible. It was doing as much as possible to stay irresponsible and avoid growing up.

Some would say those of us in this age bracket are over the hill but as I've said before, I believe it is this age bracket that has the niche to talk about things that are relevant to a more mature audience. All those that grew up in the 80's and 90's and bought the millions of records sold back then are just as frustrated with Hip-Hop as we are. So in reality, it's our fault that we haven't given the people what they want. We're the ones with passion and drive to make the music that moves the soul, so why aren't we stepping up?

If Hop-Hop is dying, it's easy to blame pop music. But if it's really dying, why are we standing by and letting it die?

Spoken like a true MC.

Man just wanting to hear good music has nothing to do with age. Eiht is nothin like the shit P put out.

What I meant earlier about outkast was that guys in the south could relate to 2 cats in baseball jeerzeys that could spit, but when you put one guy in a catchers mask, foot ball tugs and a birdcatcher's hat, it takes something away from it. I dont mind the growth musically it's just that THEY changed.

It's just like common dude can spit, but has no mass appeal. I think pac and big balanced the ability to spit with mass appeal and so did Jigga and Scarface. Hip Hop needs a new voice one that will kinda be what THE DOC woulda been if he hadnt been in the accident. someone who can spit but shows up in a T shirt and jeans and looks like kids can relate to him. At the same time I dont diss the Chingy's or the White T songs because these are equivalent to the past "Cabbach Patch or Do the Pee wee hermans" of the past. (NOTe the cabbache Patch song was none other than Doctor DRE) There is a place for it all, it's just that THE Balance is missing. Nobody is discussing regular life anymore, it's all like Swartzenegger in a movie killing 900 people.

Where as 2 pac had "Brenda's baby" songs to balance off "Gangsta party" type songs

[Big 3rd]

Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Man just wanting to hear good music has nothing to do with age. Eiht is nothin like the shit P put out.

What I meant earlier about outkast was that guys in the south could relate to 2 cats in baseball jeerzeys that could spit, but when you put one guy in a catchers mask, foot ball tugs and a birdcatcher's hat, it takes something away from it. I dont mind the growth musically it's just that THEY changed.

It's just like common dude can spit, but has no mass appeal. I think pac and big balanced the ability to spit with mass appeal and so did Jigga and Scarface. Hip Hop needs a new voice one that will kinda be what THE DOC woulda been if he hadnt been in the accident. someone who can spit but shows up in a T shirt and jeans and looks like kids can relate to him. At the same time I dont diss the Chingy's or the White T songs because these are equivalent to the past "Cabbach Patch or Do the Pee wee hermans" of the past. (NOTe the cabbache Patch song was none other than Doctor DRE) There is a place for it all, it's just that THE Balance is missing. Nobody is discussing regular life anymore, it's all like Swartzenegger in a movie killing 900 people.

Where as 2 pac had "Brenda's baby" songs to balance off "Gangsta party" type songs

Once again, spoken like a true MC. No argument here.

[Aztech]

It's true you are getting older and your expectations are at an all time high, you’ve heard it all before it's not a new experience.
Those records you say you could buy blindly back in the day would not excite you now if you went out and bought them tomorrow.
Now it's time for a wake up call cause if you can not recognize that if something like Missy was being laid on you as twenty year old kid for the first time you would have no idea how such a world of color was ever brought in to existence.
Oh and I forgot try out some mc’s from other county's, Because a lot of Americans have got such on particular themes like a broken record

[Eemo1]

Originally Posted by Big 3rd

I WANT TO HEAR STYLE, DELIVERY, and most of all, CONTENT. I don't want to hear about how many keys you sold or "up in da club we do dis, we do dat", blah, blah, blah. You know?

im enjoying murs, atmosphere, aesop rock and j-live stuff right now. they all got style, delivery AND content.

If Hop-Hop is dying, it's easy to blame pop music. But if it's really dying, why are we standing by and letting it die?

i don't know about the situation in the us, but... i think when the "hiphop-hitpop" stuff eventually fades away, im still here where i've always been.