Vocal Comping with Ken Lewis

[ISayItLikeItIs]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Dude. Please. I didnt start this thread. But i think i speak for the majority of people here when i say we hear you loud and clear. We understood your point the first, second, third, and tenth time that you said the same thing. I acknowledge that there is validity to your point of view. You've stated it. You havent said anything new. Your pissing everyone off. Just stop. please. I'm asking as a personal favor. stop posting on this thread. Just stop. not even a response to this post. nothing. Please. stop.

And I hear you loud and clear..

I'll post if I want to. Why is it that only the multi-platinum engineers and producers should be allowed to state their opinions, and the rest of us can't even comment on it?
You're far from a legend or pioneer in my book. If you ever reach that status and make something great, I'll let you know. And then I'll shut up instantly and apologize.

I don't care how many records you have sold. A lot of the music that's selling these days sucks anyways. I just checked your discography and non of it is on my reference list. You can't tell me nothing man. I'll comment, debate, and discuss if I feel like it. I respect your knowledge, experience, and professionalism. You do things your way, and I do things my way. Don't tell me when to stop posting! Respect that!

Most of my posts weren't even written for you (Ken Lewis) or Ryan West. I know you know how to produce vocals and records. They were for the newbies and upcomers out there.

This is my advice to you newbies and upcomers:
Learn how to comp a vocal (and other instruments for that matter). I said this in post #63. There are many different ways of working with comping, and Ken Lewis' advice and knowledge is very usable indeed.
However, once you've learned how to comp vocals. And it'll take years of experience. Then think about what music you are making and the artists that you are helping. If you're getting paid, I can't blame you. But if you want to change anything in the world of music today, start working with artists and musicians that just deliver straight up great performances. Now, even with them, you might want to comp certain things in a track. I mean if an artist had a great take but a few phrases were off, why not just punch in those few phrases. There is no need to make things harder than they are. But some of the vocal production I've seen going on today is ridiculous. And the artist doesn't deserve to be in the studio, the radio, or on a stage (yet).
So just think about the music you're making. And this is still for the newbies and upcomers. If you're chasing money in the music industry, you'll be supporting the music industry's way of working with music, which relies on whether something sells or not. What sells is not always good music.
I want to hear great music and great artists. Artists and bands that sound live the way they do on their cd. Classics.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by ISayItLikeItIs

And I hear you loud and clear..

I'll post if I want to. Why is it that only the multi-platinum engineers and producers should be allowed to state their opinions, and the rest of us can't even comment on it?
You're far from a legend or pioneer in my book. If you ever reach that status and make something great, I'll let you know. And then I'll shut up instantly and apologize.

I don't care how many records you have sold. A lot of the music that's selling these days sucks anyways. I just checked your discography and non of it is on my reference list. You can't tell me nothing man. I'll comment, debate, and discuss if I feel like it. I respect your knowledge, experience, and professionalism. You do things your way, and I do things my way. Don't tell me when to stop posting! Respect that!

Most of my posts weren't even written for you (Ken Lewis) or Ryan West. I know you know how to produce vocals and records. They were for the newbies and upcomers out there.

This is my advice to you newbies and upcomers:
Learn how to comp a vocal (and other instruments for that matter). I said this in post #63. There are many different ways of working with comping, and Ken Lewis' advice and knowledge is very usable indeed.
However, once you've learned how to comp vocals. And it'll take years of experience. Then think about what music you are making and the artists that you are helping. If you're getting paid, I can't blame you. But if you want to change anything in the world of music today, start working with artists and musicians that just deliver straight up great performances. Now, even with them, you might want to comp certain things in a track. I mean if an artist had a great take but a few phrases were off, why not just punch in those few phrases. There is no need to make things harder than they are. But some of the vocal production I've seen going on today is ridiculous. And the artist doesn't deserve to be in the studio, the radio, or on a stage (yet).
So just think about the music you're making. And this is still for the newbies and upcomers. If you're chasing money in the music industry, you'll be supporting the music industry's way of working with music, which relies on whether something sells or not. What sells is not always good music.
I want to hear great music and great artists. Artists and bands that sound live the way they do on their cd. Classics.

Nobody AFAIK is saying that what you are saying isn't gold, they're just saying it's for another thread. Why don't you/didn't you make another thread, begin with this last post (it's end is gold too) and leave out reference to this thread until appropriate.
In fact, I'd go back and delete your posts yourself and start the new thread. You have a valid point, but, it's not the focus of this thread.
Another thing to remember on GS is that when you make an out post and people bandwagon in on jumping on you, ignore them an leave the thread, see if your point is more valid for it's own thread and ifso, make a new one.
It doesn't have to be all the drama that happened here.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by ISayItLikeItIs

I'll post if I want to. Why is it that only the multi-platinum engineers and producers should be allowed to state their opinions, and the rest of us can't even comment on it? You're far from a legend or pioneer in my book.

Hey, thanks for noticing. I think if i was legend status i'd be posting on my own special forum like Tony Maserati, Russ Elevado, Butch Vig, etc... I am far from them, so i post like regular folk right here in the hip hop forum and the other forums.

Originally Posted by ISayItLikeItIs

Most of my posts weren't even written for you (Ken Lewis) or Ryan West. I know you know how to produce vocals and records. They were for the newbies and upcomers out there.

This is my advice to you newbies and upcomers:
Learn how to comp a vocal (and other instruments for that matter). I said this in post #63. There are many different ways of working with comping, and Ken Lewis' advice and knowledge is very usable indeed.
However, once you've learned how to comp vocals. And it'll take years of experience. Then think about what music you are making and the artists that you are helping. If you're getting paid, I can't blame you. But if you want to change anything in the world of music today, start working with artists and musicians that just deliver straight up great performances. Now, even with them, you might want to comp certain things in a track. I mean if an artist had a great take but a few phrases were off, why not just punch in those few phrases. There is no need to make things harder than they are. But some of the vocal production I've seen going on today is ridiculous. And the artist doesn't deserve to be in the studio, the radio, or on a stage (yet).
So just think about the music you're making. And this is still for the newbies and upcomers. If you're chasing money in the music industry, you'll be supporting the music industry's way of working with music, which relies on whether something sells or not. What sells is not always good music.
I want to hear great music and great artists. Artists and bands that sound live the way they do on their cd. Classics.

Best most insightful, concise thing you've said all thread. would have been great to read this ten posts ago. And seriously, it would have been great to hear something you did that you thought was done well without comping. Its not a challenge, its a point of reference. When i posted my original blog 4 years ago that started this whole thread, i sighted records and examples for people to hear. That makes what your saying a whole lot more valuable, and would have to you because you are offering a complete counterpoint but without anything at all to back it up. My blog post, which somehow i dont think you even read before posting on a thread specifically about it, sighted example after example, scenario after scenario.

Nobody anywhere on this forum would ever dispute that "ideally" you find the most amazingly talented artists who dont need this type of treatment. and put an artist in rehearsals until they are ready to truly perform. Most of the time this is an unrealistic scenario or out of your control and you've got to deal with the reality of the situation in front of you. There are few artists, even the great ones, i've ever worked with in my life who couldnt benefit from vocal comping (aside from a few MC's who might have taken ten takes until they got it right but who didnt need or want to be comp'd).

i've pretty much said anything this thread needs to say in the original blog post. this is all pretty much just complete noise by now and the only two people left reading are me and ISILII. so i'll leave it to you. This thread has long since run its course.

PS. 5StarProject - So glad you got something out of this and that it really helped you. Keep up the great work and keep that confidence up, even fake confidence. When i walk into a studio for a session, i know that i am the best person in the world to be in that room doing that session with that artist on that day. Nobody else that day could do a better job than me. Thats not arrogance, its self confidence, and if you dont have it in spades around someone like Usher or Mary J, its gonna be a bad day for you. believe in yourself and make people believe in you and you'll get the results you need. second guess and look timid and everyone will second guess you. Sounds like your on your way 5SP. keep grindin.

[Storyville]

Boy, I am glad I just jumped to the end of this thread! I bet there's all sorts of crap floating around in this one.

I don't know the history of Ken Lewis, only bits and pieces. But I have listened to the beats he has for sale on his page, and they're pretty damn friggin' good. So, famous, pioneer, or not, whatever. The man makes some noise - and I generally HATE beats. It's really hard to impress me with an instrumental track.

But aside from that, "the music industry" is a vast ocean of content... not just the clear channel stuff. So to say that "excessive" vocal comping is a problem in the music industry is a strange statement. Believe it or not, much of the "under produced" sounding music, is extra produced to sound under produced. Just like some things are mixed to sound "less mixed."

There is no such thing as excessive vocal comping. Vocal comping is a technique for getting the very best sounding performance you can. Listening for continuity is part of the process. You can't over comp something. You either take the best and least contingent pieces, or you don't. And honestly, I've heard a lot of "one takes" that sound more like comps than comp'd vocals.

Lastly, I have to say that in the sphere of "main stream" music, while I do feel that song value has generally declined - I often find myself impressed by the production value. I mean painstakingly rigorous production. Hundreds and hundreds of tracks that sound cohesive and spontaneous. Trust me, even some of the simplest sounding songs have some INTENSE production that we as listeners never realize is happening.