big phat kicks

[doug_hti]

What are you guys doing to get your big bumpin/thumpkin kicks.
I'm really referring more to programmed kicks...

what are you layering?

are you using different samples to achieve thump/thud/attack/click?

what are your sources (samples/synths)?

how do you treat them in mix down(if you mix)?

are you bussing them together and/or through a final comp for gel?

what are you using to tighten it up (expander or gate), so it's not flubby?

are you using anything for width/dimension/depth or are you just up the middle?

how much do you cater to the smaller playback systems?

are you using any gentle or aggressive high pass filters?

anything to share????

thanks

[stealthbalance]

hey doug hti -

for me i just use samples and layer about 3 or 4 bass drums. you could also use diff channels of the same samples and use compression and eq to bring out the diff charteristics you need , like attack , impact, subs, etc. i use a bit of all of this stuff , but for the most part just blend in a couple of bass drums along with the source bass drum you are trying to fatten and balls out. ive used both combining them to a subgroup and or just keeping them on discrete channels. pichshifting can be cool too , just mult and pitch down. you could also go older than old school and blend in a oscillator doing a 50 or 60 hz tone and key gate that and blend in. also if you are hammering all the drums into a compressor for that slammed sound , maybe keep your bd's out of that drum subgroup so it wont be made small and sound neutered.
good luck.

s

[TonyBelmont]

Kick drum + DBX 120 = big phat kicks that will blow up speakers!!!!

[doug_hti]

Originally Posted by stealthbalance

hey doug hti -

for me i just use samples and layer about 3 or 4 bass drums. you could also use diff channels of the same samples and use compression and eq to bring out the diff charteristics you need , like attack , impact, subs, etc. i use a bit of all of this stuff , but for the most part just blend in a couple of bass drums along with the source bass drum you are trying to fatten and balls out. ive used both combining them to a subgroup and or just keeping them on discrete channels. pichshifting can be cool too , just mult and pitch down. you could also go older than old school and blend in a oscillator doing a 50 or 60 hz tone and key gate that and blend in. also if you are hammering all the drums into a compressor for that slammed sound , maybe keep your bd's out of that drum subgroup so it wont be made small and sound neutered.
good luck.

s

thanks Stealth,
I guess I share a lot of the same methods as you already describe.
I can get it to poke through on all the right frequencies and heard on all the right systems and balanced, but sometimes, it still isn't the "sound" or "feel" that I'm looking for. I hit gold sometimes, but not always. I also don't always do the "programmed" kick thing, but is always a challenge when I do.

Also with sound replacer, are you lining up peaks, beginings, or moving things around til it sounds tight? (obviously someone in the peanut gallery will say "til it sounds good")

I'm not too disappointed with results, just feel I can and will do better.

I used to do the gated sine wave thing, but have pretty good source sub stuff now and don't bother with that.

and it's always good to see if anyone has any additional tricks up their sleeves or what the mpc folks are layering.

[ttauri]

Pretty much the same as Stealthbalance here.

Usually not bus compressing the kick layers (style thing--I tend to arrange with different layers coming in and out at different points in the song, so the feel of the compression would change at different points), though if I am, likely I'm also sending duplicates of at least one or two out uncompressed.

One thing I don't hear of much that I do sometimes--though I'm not sure that it'd be useful for you--is to have a layer with a resonant filter on it. Just a touch of it in the kick mix. Not really a tight, controlled addition though. For me, it adds a bit of haze to the kick... Works for me when I want things to sound a little stoned/trippy: makes you want a listen deeper, like squinting through a fog to see something.

Never sent the kick anywhere but up the middle. Though I heard a song yesterday with panned kicks that sounded pretty cool for it.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[Ijustmake-Beats]

I agree with all the layering etc. I generally keep a bunch of proven kick's with healthy sub presence to put under stuff, from 808's to grittier samples. I filter most of the top end and high-mids out of these when layering.

Then I use well recorded real drum sounds over the top to give me a wide variety of tones, all they generally need is some reinforcement on the bottom end to sound good.

During the mix I focus mainly on compressing the drum bus for a tight, nicely congealed drum sound, but I also run some uncompressed kick to the main outputs to keep it full sounding, as sometimes kicks can lose something during bus compression.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

Soo is there a favorite comp/limiter for hip HOP kick..
plugs/outboard...

BigBangBOOM
that sort of thing.....

[Fajita]

DISTRESSOR

IMPACT (plug)

SSL (outboard)

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by r0ck1r0ck2

Soo is there a favorite comp/limiter for hip HOP kick..
plugs/outboard...

BigBangBOOM
that sort of thing.....

DBX 160XT....
The SSL 4000 series channel compressor....
Distressor...

[Mario-C.]

interesting ...

to the guys layering kicks, how do you avoid phase issues ? I've tried layering kicks a couple of times and kind of hated the results, I got all kinds of phase weirdness ...

do you align the kicks in pro tools ? resample ? please share ...

[Scinx]

I craft beats on the MPC - sometimes for a heavy kick I will assign pad 1 & 2 to the same kick sound (while coupling them so that when I hit Pad 1, pad 2 also sounds). I filter the heck out of the pad 2 kick. You can do this so on and so forth. Othertimes I use differing kick sounds (filtering each, all or some to taste). Ive never run into phase issues. I layer them on each other.

[beatzz]

Yes, layering is key for me. I can't seem to get a phat low-end sounding kick without putting the work into it.

I've rarely come across any kick samples that were "ready to go" by themselves. I have a lot of sample librairies too!

[Ijustmake-Beats]

When layering drums for hip hop phasing issues do happen, I figure just not as often as you'd think. IMHO hip hop prouducers are probably somewhat less sensitive to it's effects than someone working with live drum tracks looking to maintain a 'real' drum sound. As a generalisation in hip hop it's more important to achieve certain textures such as gritty and lo-fi drums (eg Wu-Tang) all the way through to slicker and snappier stuff (eg Dre), so there's probably more leeway here.

[illynoise]

1. ASR-10/MPC: Sample in the ASR-10 (highest level you can, never sample at 44k! Go lower like 22khz), normalize, filter out tails, usually 99 99 50 50 25(asr), adjust reso(mpc trigger), layer a hi one if needed, filter that one, trigger at 90, boost volume. If it farts your speakers, great!

2. Logic: EXS Sampler, channel EQ, anylyze, put some top end cut off bassline or kick to fit, compress, soft mode, boost at 60-80 and 120-140 hi q, analyze again, turn everything down(in mixer screen), make sure your don't have a limiter on the output bus/master, get it up to below zero, turn the kick up some more (and snare), turn on the subs, turn the volume almost all the way down, listen........

My theory is if you have more controlled bass, then you can always cut it off in mastering, but its harder to add it in there. I've always been a bass-head (pre-crack era)

BTW Logic's Ultrabeat has heaviest kickdrums that I've EVER HEARD!!!

BaseJase

[r0ck1r0ck2]

the mighty BOOM
lest we forget

hey i was at the monthly 40oz night

"it Was A Good Day" got played

"i even saw the lights of the GoodYear blimp
flashing Ice Cubes a Pimp"

been keeping me warm for 24 hours

thanks Cube!

oh and say what you will, but i LOVE it when i can hear a boom car from 4 blocks away

[Big Truck]

Originally Posted by Mario-C.

interesting ...

to the guys layering kicks, how do you avoid phase issues ? I've tried layering kicks a couple of times and kind of hated the results, I got all kinds of phase weirdness ...

do you align the kicks in pro tools ? resample ? please share ...

i use battery 2 .. if your getting some weird phase problems ...you can adjust the start point of a sample .. very very fine adjustment .. it can act like an eq .. adjust one against the other .. and try the other way around ... tools hasn't got the fine adjustment that you need ...

[con?one]

i use the right kick, and sometimes some eq.

[filterayok]

i realized something relatively recently---when your going thru kik menues, and playing each one with your track till something sounds right, 90% of the time, its the kik thats in the right "pitch" thats the one that works----ive trained myself to start listening for the right TEXTURE kik, then go back and pitch it to the right note... otherwise, you could pass up the perfect kik for your song, just because it doesnt sound right cause its out of key....


and layering kiks, just to layer them, is a disaster most of the time----if your playing your track, and your like hmmm i wish this kik had a hollow sounding tail, like timbo, then fine, layer that in there----but i wouldnt go layering kiks to make it sound "bigger" or "phatter" just cause you think thats what storch does----use your ear to make it gel with the track, and ask yourself ..."does this kik REALLY NEED a sharp attack, a thump, a sub, etc. or does it already work with the track as is...."

[filterayok]

Originally Posted by Big Truck

... tools hasn't got the fine adjustment that you need ...

you can nudge things 1 millisecond, and edit by the SAMPLE---that is at the least 44.1 THOUSAND of them per second-----how exactly "fine" an adjustment are you talking....

[Sirocco]

just expiriment...what i do is different every session, but i do use Izotope Trash a fairly large amount...

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by illynoise

BTW Logic's Ultrabeat has heaviest kickdrums that I've EVER HEARD!!!

im pc, got no idea, can i hear???!

[derker]

Damn, 3-4 kicks to sound solid? Just pick a good sample to start with, trim it right, if you want a good channel strip for kick, API is one! Nice tight compression and great EQ.