Hip-hop is dead?

[j-uk]

Hi fellas,
First off: This is not meant as a diss against hip hop or anything I'm just curious
what you guys think.
The only hip hop album I've heard in the past 2 years that I found interesting was
Foreign Exchange. When it comes to the likes of Missy, Jay c & Co ehr recycling...
Kanye's done some really good stuff on his own but he seems pretty alone in todays music climate trying to do something different.
I can't see hip hop surviving for the next decade unless something happens?
Again I'm not trying to attack someone's personal taste here.

Peace /jay

[jlotto]

u are stuck on northeastern hip hop. dirty south hip hop is in a renaissance period and have pretty much taken over the airwaves in the usa. the sell alot of units, rock da clubs and colleges, and do alot of shows. People who aren't from down there don't tend to like it but it is what it is. Midwest is killing them as well. kanye, twista, eminem, obie trice, etc. r doing real well. Game from LA did very well also.

NY hip hop is at a stand still right now. no new good talent. besides g-unit, dipset, mobb deep, d-block, jay-z when he comes out of "retirement"- there's nothing new and exciting. all the rappers seem to be stuck on some 1999 "im a street corner hustla" persona tahts long since been played out.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by jlotto

NY hip hop is at a stand still right now. no new good talent. besides g-unit, dipset, mobb deep, d-block, jay-z when he comes out of "retirement"- there's nothing new and exciting. all the rappers seem to be stuck on some 1999 "im a street corner hustla" persona tahts long since been played out.

so screaming "yeeeaaahhhhh" and whispering on tracks and not being able to pernounce words clearly is the answer
I'd also argue that the brand of rap Game, Kanye, & Common bring to the table pretty much sounds like an East Coast/New York Emcee.(well kanye has his shy-town accent though )

any way listen to Mos Def's first CD first song. Hip Hop being 'dead' is your choice. Me personally I'm content. There is definitly more wack sh!t then before especially on the commercial airwaves. But good music can still be found if you keep your 'ear' to the street.

[jlotto]

u need to watch the DVD "Dirty States". It's the history of down south music. They are trying to get to a different place than say a Kanye West or a Mos Def with their music. It shows the origins in miami, new orleans, atlanta, houston, memphis, et all and why it is the way it is. Sure a Nas or Saigon can "spit" much more complex and "better" than a down south rapper but the people down south dont care to hear that and dont care to support.

alot of elitest hip hop types are real snobs when it comes to discussing dirty south music and that attitude has allowed the south to take over. The south along w/ the midwest buy 80% of all the rap/hip hop in the usa. They have the buying power now and dont need the ny market anymore.

Dirty south stuff is some real grass roots, party, down home stuff and alot of up north folks that dont have them roots dont understand it so they try and insult it or say it's not music.

Brand of rap and "where u from" are 2 different things. Game is not overly west coast with his lyrical style but his content is straight Compton. Overly west coast artist like an e40 or WC have a hard time crossing over to other markets. Plus cali buy less records than ny. Midwest style common and kanye from chicago is chicago and not ny. they dont have the country accent but the rhyming style and content is different than NYC by a long shot. The content usually reflects where u r from.

[ELI-173]

I used to be a rap record fanatik. I have pretty much every 12" single from 1983-1996. I hate new radio hip hop. There is an occasional cool track. But it's all micky mouse music to me now. Useless, throw away songs. One after the next. It's not the same, and the soul is not there. I almost never hear anything interesting being said. Gimme some Eric B and Rakim and I'm happy.


Rappers like Rakim would make you think a lot about what they were saying. The message being sent to kids in the hood now is: You should have this car, and these diamonds. Thats what life is all about. It's so sad I don't even know where to start.

[jlotto]

it's the same as my dad who hates anything that ain't al green or sam cooke or james brown. Music in the late 70's to now is not music to him and we had some great artists since 1978. we tend to get stuck in the era of our youth with music.

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by ELI-173

Rappers like Rakim would make you think a lot about what they were saying. The message being sent to kids in the hood now is: You should have this car, and these diamonds. Thats what life is all about. It's so sad I don't even know where to start.

WOOOORD!

[ELI-173]

I'm always the first to say to my friends who still do parties that I am "the grumpy old rap fan"

But I do listen to all kinds of new records. For some reason, it is so so rare that a new rap album really catches my ear.

I guess I'm a fan of sample based rap records from producers like Primo, Large Pro, Pete Rock, etc.

The 'Triton' based synth beats just don't give me the same feeling. Presets don't exactly get my cojones cranking. But then again, I use synths from the old days.

Making beats back in the days was about knowing records, knowing breaks, knowing music. Ask some cat blasting 50 out of his escalade who epmd is, and chances are you'll get a blank response.

Hey, whatever. That's the way it goes!

E

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by jlotto

it's the same as my dad who hates anything that ain't al green or sam cooke or james brown. Music in the late 70's to now is not music to him and we had some great artists since 1978. we tend to get stuck in the era of our youth with music.

Besides that, I think that hip hop used to have a more idealistic core, it was more of a subculture, now it´s more like any kind of fashion that can be traded.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by jlotto

Brand of rap and "where u from" are 2 different things. Game is not overly west coast with his lyrical style but his content is straight Compton. Overly west coast artist like an e40 or WC have a hard time crossing over to other markets. Plus cali buy less records than ny. Midwest style common and kanye from chicago is chicago and not ny. they dont have the country accent but the rhyming style and content is different than NYC by a long shot. The content usually reflects where u r from.

I'm just talkin style. But the content of Common and Kanye are very similar to the likes of Mos Def or Talib kweli or the people on rawkus or even Nas. Each "Coast" has a style flow, delivery etc. and there style is definitly East Coast. Fast Spitting or really slow 'bouncy' flows is midwest/southern. West is a combo of both but sorta east coasty with a west coast accent(more so the underground scene).

[Fredrik]

I definetly feel that the core of hiphop should be sample based, it is after all a DJ´s music. Wonder if it´s legal aspects of sampling that has made the scene move towards keyboard sounds?

There´s some new more experimental type stuff comming out aswell, but it wont most probably show on MTV.

I think DJ krush and the ninja tune label for example are trying to pushing the evnelope as far as sampling goes..

[ELI-173]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Besides that, I think that hip hop used to have a more idealistic core, it was more of a subculture, now it´s more like any kind of fashion that can be traded.

Completely. You had to earn cred back then it seemed. Now you could have "American Rap Star" no question to find the next 'big rapper.'

Booorrrriiiingg

When it comes to new stuff, I'll always check out a new Common record, and I like Kanye's beats a lot. Kanye's rhymes... boooorriiiinggg
He's such an insecure egomaniac too, that he won't put out instrumentals cause he doesn't want people mixing other accapellas (Better verses) on his beats. I hear from many many studio assistant friends that he is absolutely without a doubt the worst person to work with ever.

I love Mos Def's first record. Talib... next.

[Stoneface]

I think it's just plain silly that in 2005 there are still people that actually BELIEVE that Hip-Hop could die. They once said that about rock-n-roll. It's still here. They said that about blues and jazz...they too are still here.

Most of you...at this point in life, should be old enough to hate whats on the radio. That's all part of maturity. There are garbage musicians and artists in all forms of music, equally. Why don't people say, Country's gonna die? Alternative is gonna die? Does the lack of questioning these other musical forms suggest that all alternative and country acts are great? I sure hope not...

Just to educate some of you, Hip-Hop is not a form of music...it is a living and breathing culture that CAN'T die as long as poverty, oppression and racisim still exist in this country. To assume anything else only proves your ignorance and hatred toward ideas you can't relate to or understand.

My opinion...I think this thread should die.

I think the clouding of Hip-Hop with Rap will kill it.
It will lose its message and become the empty well-marketed rap that is being mentioned in this thread.
This thread is a perfect example.
More talk about rappers than Hip-Hop artist.

I do agree that as long as we have strife in our society some form of music will exist to oppose it. Will it be Hip-Hop? I doubt.
Many forms of music have spoke for change, and there will be new ones.

IMHO.

D

[defjamm]

hip-hop/rap isn't 'more dead' than rock, country, heavy metal whateva. just listen to the different styles ot the last 10 years, kanye's sample-use(i love high pitched voices), neptunes minimalistic distorted synths, lil johns crunk beats, timbos innovative way of mangling everything together to something new, just blaze, dre, storch. man, so many different styles and flavors just regarding the beats.

luda's crazy rhymes, jada's flow und punch-lines, necro's ill horror-styles, kanye, non phixion...no it ain't dead.

[defjamm]

Originally Posted by dpasch

I think the clouding of Hip-Hop with Rap will kill it.
It will lose its message and become the empty well-marketed rap that is being mentioned in this thread.
This thread is a perfect example.
More talk about rappers than Hip-Hop artist.

I do agree that as long as we have strife in our society some form of music will exist to oppose it. Will it be Hip-Hop? I doubt.
Many forms of music have spoke for change, and there will be new ones.

IMHO.

D

this is a music-forum, so it makes sense to talk about producers, engineers and rappers.
yeah i know people think hip-hop is music, what they mean is rap-music, just a part of this big 'thing' called hip-hop.

[nukmusic]

true Hip Hop is still alive son. Its just not marketed like other stuff.

[j-uk]

Does the lack of questioning these other musical forms suggest that all alternative and country acts are great? I sure hope not...

The obituary for country has been written and re-written I don't know how many times. The reason, in my opinion, why alternative and country manages to be progressive is cos there are act's in this genre's who are prepared to break rules and convention to come up with something new and exciting.

More talk about rappers than Hip-Hop artist.

I couldn't agree more and this thread shows it. Where are the producers that will take hip-hop to new levels? No disrespect but alltho the likes of The Alchemist, Guru, Pete Rock etc have done some amazing music in the past I don't see them being the ones tradeblazing.

I'm always the first to say to my friends who still do parties that I am "the grumpy old rap fan"

Don't disagreeing with you here just like to add that I don't know if Clive Davies is grumpy or not but he's not a youngster, still he manages to
pick acts the repeatedly strikes a chord with "younger" people. Age has nothing to do with ability to recognize quality music.

[grahluk]

Originally Posted by Stoneface

Just to educate some of you, Hip-Hop is not a form of music...it is a living and breathing culture that CAN'T die as long as poverty, oppression and racisim still exist in this country.

Please? Save it for the MTV promo. That's so far from reality that the only people pushing that are folks trying to sell you "reality" so they can enjoy the reality of an Escalade with big rims and a playstation in the back. That's the state of the "culture"

[grahluk]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

true Hip Hop is still alive son. Its just not marketed like other stuff.

It's not? What're they waiting for?

[XHipHop]

This thread almost makes me want to stop reading the forum.

How is this productive in ANY way!?!!?!?!

As producers, it's our choice wether or not we want to let a genre get stale and die.

As I pointed out in another thread, you have Lil Jon tracks, Mike Jones (pitched DOWN vocals...as opposed to last year's pitched UP vocals trend..e), and reggaeton tearing up the airwaves.

Last year you had Outcast and Kanye West.

Dead? Hardly. Every year there is something different out there, wether your ears and mind are open to it or not.

And to the people that are jaded with what's going on the mainstream level, I promise you if you look hard enough, there is some obscure artists doing something that would be your cup of tea.

I was at a party on friday night and this girl put on the following cds:

T.I.
Mike Jones
Trillville
Young Buck

In my mind I thought, "wow, so this is who actually buys these records!" We're gearheads that are looking for something that blows our minds sonically, while the (or this) average listener is looking for a dance-record, something to bounce around to, or something that just makes them feel "gansta" (admit it, you feel badass in your car listening to some records).

Let's get back to discussing how music is made and stop with these pointless arguments... I don't see how this thread could get into anything conclusive or productive...

LONG LIVE HIP-HOP AND GEARSLUTZ!

[doorknocker]

Is hip-hop dead? It probably never was alive to begin with! (Just kidding)

Slightly OT: While doing a search on Brad Mehldau today, I found this:

Here are a few suggestions to make jazz appeal to a new generation.

* Give John Coltrane a cool rap name, like J Col' T or Trane Daddy.



Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[tengu]

Hip Hop isn't dead. It might be going through a lul period in some parts of the states but around the rest of the world there are some amazing underground beats happening. US is the Mecca of hip-hop but I think the commerciality of it is killing it to some degree.

But then again everything has its merrits. There is always a great commercial tune, as there is always great underground tunes. The other side of the coin is that unfortunately there is a lot more uninspired rubbish that comes out, but one mans gold can be anothers garbage.

Hip-hop is a culture and there are always those true to its roots in some form or another. When you get down to it though, it is like the bastard grandchild of Jazz/Be Bop. But Jazz is long dead in some respects cause purists wanna keep it old. That is one way that things get stale.

Check out Chicago, the Opus kill it. That is some of the freshest shit going and there roots are in the Bombsquad but they don't sound stale or processed.

The worst thing that can happen to anyone or anything is for it to become a parody of itself and become fixated on its own importance.

People graffed long before hip-hop. People breaked long before hip-hop and people MC'ed long before hip-hop. Whether people juggled or scratched before hip hop I can't 100% say but for me that is where it's origins lay and what bought it all together. Cool Herc, Bambatta, Grandmaster Flash and now cats like DJ Krush carry the flame. True originators.

What is my take on hip-hop may be totally wrong to others but who cares. The thing is that it has outgrown itself and most wouldn't know anything about its roots. As long as whatever it is, is cool and/or makes people happy and/or fulfilled, or expands peoples minds in some regard then it has merits.

The apprentice must kill the master.

"So I change it never it, never doing the same shit" :- Del the Funky Homosapien

[theblue1]

Music goes through phases. There's the early adopter/underground hipster phase. That's where things are first set in motion and it seems like anything is possible.

And then, next, there's a lull or retreat... when it seems like the new musical style/subculture, whether its hip hop or punk or rave music or whatever, is never going to get out of that hip little circle and a lot of the early prime movers (being the kind of restless, easily bored folks they are) seem to drift off or move on to other things.

Then there is what I like to call the "Walmart phase" where the industry finally discovers the new trend (or figures it's safe enough to now co-opt) and starts marketing it in every possible venue. At that point, the innovators are either burrowed down deep or have truly moved on.

Then there are typically waves of rediscovery of the origins of the subculture and often a period of "classicism" where devotees of the old school rediscover and reinvestigate what was interesting and compelling in the first place.


At over a quarter of a century old, hip hop has certainly gone through all of those phases and, I think it's safe to say, has entered the realm of the established, even 'classic' genre like blues, rock, soul, country, reggae, etc. That doesn't mean hip hop is necessarily moribund -- but it does mean that it has many or all of the encumbrances and habitual ways of thinking that those other established musical subcultures have.


You know, you can reinvent the past... or you can reinvent the future.


But, on some level, it's all been done before...

;)

[grahluk]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

As producers, it's our choice wether or not we want to let a genre get stale and die.

It's hardly our choice whether it lives or dies. If a genre died in the woods would anyone hear it? Would anyone attend the funeral? May you carry the torch. Me? I could care less about a genre's health. Just make music. If you're wrapped up in genre thinking you've already limited yourself.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

I definetly feel that the core of hiphop should be sample based, it is after all a DJ´s music. Wonder if it´s legal aspects of sampling that has made the scene move towards keyboard sounds?

It got too expensive to sample...

Hip Hop is a culture, Rap is music. Rap music is a part of hip hop culture

[Fredrik]

everybody knows that..

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by grahluk

Please? Save it for the MTV promo. That's so far from reality that the only people pushing that are folks trying to sell you "reality" so they can enjoy the reality of an Escalade with big rims and a playstation in the back. That's the state of the "culture"

its deeper than that. May i suggest reading some stuff by KRS One, i think that will explain where he's coming from.