Putting out your music on Vinyl??

[illacov]

I'm really considering releasing copies of our next album on vinyl (Full Length, as well as Singles). It would be a limited run but I noticed that Vinyl is still alive in the US but really big overseas.

What's everybody's thoughts on good ole Vinyl??

Food for thought: What's your experiences as far as mixing a project thats going to Vinyl nowadays? Is it different compared to back in the days?

Peace
Illumination

[JaeOne3345]

Do it man. Music collectors and dj's will def appreciate it.

[illacov]

That's my primary thing too. Alot of DJs still use Vinyl and give acts credit for even releasing on vinyl. Sometimes it gets you a better shot at airplay on mixtapes and radio.

Now mind you, this varies from scene to scene. The US has alot of that Clearchannel closed door business going on, so for an independent it can be harder to get on the air even with Vinyl. But overseas, them cats will cut up cats screwing with drum and bass from Homeboy records without even thinking twice about it on BBC radio and Radio 1.

So my hope is that a limited run on Vinyl (under 1000) would serve well to get the attention of the international crowd a little better (as well as the club djs and underground scene over there) and maybe soften the hearts of the stoics who remain here in the States.

I wouldn't say that airplay is the ONLY reason for doing it but, I keep meeting more and more people who are in the Vinyl club. They hate CDs. I miss my vinyls to this day, I had almost 1000 records of stuff when I used to sample. I'm talking like the Enter the Dragon Soundtrack in Mint Condition, not the rarest but cool shit.


Anyhoo thanks for chiming in.

Peace
Illumination

[MixHitz]

Vinyl is ok for collectors, but almost every modern DJ, even a good percentage of technology hating DJ's have switched over to some sort of vinyl emulation program (Serato, Traktor, Final Scratch) I have a syndicated mixshow and am now at the point where I won't even open the cd's or vinyl that I'm sent. And yes, I have a great appreciation for the art and the sound of vinyl. I've been mixing on the radio making my living since the early 90's. Yes I have a storage space full of vinyl that I don't use and am too lazy to even convert to mp3. You might be better served to press a very limited edition for select fans. Trust me, any working DJ will want the mp3 for whatever system they are playing on

[MixHitz]

by the way... I enjoyed the music on your page. Very entertaining

[cynic one]

do it, and offer free mp3 download of the album for anyone who buys the vinyl.

i plan to do something similar with my next release.

[Darwin James]

Originally Posted by MixHitz

I won't even open the cd's or vinyl that I'm sent.

bah.

[The Beatsmith]

we've done it... one the one hand it's worth it for the sake of 'art' and making a great product, on the other hand i'm not sure it was worth it as:

1) you'll make a loss...
2) different mastering (and remixing) fees (or at least time)
3) you'll make a loss...
4) headaches with test pressings, errors, repressing etc
5) you'll make a loss... your profits will be hit hard at least.

it's not an economically sensible option, you have to do it for the purists, for the collectors, and because you really love vinyl. if it's worth it to you to be able to hold your album in your hand and be proud to have it in 12" vinyl, then go for it... otherwise don't bother.

[bgrotto]

My band (not hip hop, mind you) just released a 7"; played a release last night. Each 7" comes with a coupon for a digital download of all the songs on the record, plus a bonus track. And we're working on a full length that we're gonna release as a 12" LP-plus-digital download only (no CDs!).

Sold more 7"s last night than we sold CDs at our last record's release show...interesting stuff...

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

we've done it... one the one hand it's worth it for the sake of 'art' and making a great product, on the other hand i'm not sure it was worth it as:

1) you'll make a loss...
2) different mastering (and remixing) fees (or at least time)
3) you'll make a loss...
4) headaches with test pressings, errors, repressing etc
5) you'll make a loss... your profits will be hit hard at least.

it's not an economically sensible option, you have to do it for the purists, for the collectors, and because you really love vinyl. if it's worth it to you to be able to hold your album in your hand and be proud to have it in 12" vinyl, then go for it... otherwise don't bother.

To be fair, these days, when you release an album on a CD, you'll likely end up taking a loss as well. At least vinyl gives a tangible, physical product that fans can for whatever reason more easily assign a monetary value to (maybe it's the fancy big nice-lookin' artwork...?), while at the same time making you and your product, er, art, stand out from the crowd.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

To be fair, these days, when you release an album on a CD, you'll likely end up taking a loss as well. At least vinyl gives a tangible, physical product that fans can for whatever reason more easily assign a monetary value to (maybe it's the fancy big nice-lookin' artwork...?), while at the same time making you and your product, er, art, stand out from the crowd.

How much you selling the LPs for??

I would think an LP or EP on vinyl should fetch more dough than a CD. Right? So maybe you take a loss.

We sell out of our CDs at shows all the time and we sell em for 10 bucks.

Vinyl should easily go for 15 bucks or more. People understand.

Now I just have to buy a used Technics 1200 so I can actually listen to test presses! LOL.

Peace
Illumination

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by illacov

How much you selling the LPs for??

I would think an LP or EP on vinyl should fetch more dough than a CD. Right? So maybe you take a loss.

We sell out of our CDs at shows all the time and we sell em for 10 bucks.

Vinyl should easily go for 15 bucks or more. People understand.

Now I just have to buy a used Technics 1200 so I can actually listen to test presses! LOL.

Peace
Illumination

We haven't priced out the LPs yet, because we haven't figured out artwork, vinyl color, etc. Plus, um, we're still recording the damn thing

The 7"s are $7 each; cost per-unit ended up being about $3.50. However, that includes a few "niceties" we decided to spring for, including:

- three different colors of vinyl (black, clear, and orange, the latter two of which are sold at live shows only)
- cover jackets/artwork that was screen-printed locally by hand (looks ****ing AWESOME!!)
- a thousand digital download coupons, which end up costing $.20 each. We had 500 records made, so we have 500 extra download coupons to give away with t-shirts, our first CD, etc.

It's also worth noting that this was a split 7"; two of our songs on side A, two of our friends' band's songs on side B, and the cost was split 50/50. For my band to break even, we need to sell 125 7"s, which is very realistic. We'll most likely end up selling all 250, actually, at which point we'd get another couple hundred reprinted. Reprinting costs less because the master disc is already made, which is a fairly hefty initial cost, however it's only a one-time cost. That'll drop our per-unit cost on the second run, which will be very nice.

Re: the Technics 1200 - you can find a better turntable rig for your listening pleasure. PM me and I'll make some recommendations

[bgrotto]

Oh, I guess I should mention, we're planning on selling the LP for between $10 - $15...prolly closer to $15.

We're also gonna be printing up T-shirts that have the album artwork on the front and back, which will include a download coupon, for those fans uninterested in buying vinyl. Those'll probably sell for $10 (same as what we'd charge for a CD).

[cynic one]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

- a thousand digital download coupons, which end up costing $.20 each. We had 500 records made, so we have 500 extra download coupons to give away with t-shirts, our first CD, etc.

how'd you end up producing those coupons? by hand or have someone do it for you? i have a scheme in mind to get mine done, but would like to know how others are making it work.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by cynic

how'd you end up producing those coupons? by hand or have someone do it for you? i have a scheme in mind to get mine done, but would like to know how others are making it work.

We used a company called URP to press the vinyl, and the download coupons is a feature they offer.

There's also a guy here in Boston (well, technically, Cambridge) who does it; his company is called Wonderdrug.

[Storyville]

Vinyl is a medium on which music is played. Marketing has very little to do with this. Identify your niche: People who own record players, ie, old school djs, purist djs, or djs who truly love the art and sound of cutting up vinyls, hipsters, old people, beat makers, and maybe a few college kids here and there.

Does your music appeal to any of these? Is your music hard-core traditonalist enough for the old heads and the purists? Is it awkward and experimental enough for the hipsters and college kids with over-inflated ideas about aesthetic? Probably leaves the remaining down to those few djs who truly love the art and sound of cutting up vinyls, who will respect a vinyl because it's a vinyl. I know a few. But a good sales pitch can generally win them over.

Cutting to vinyl is unfortunately not an economically sound route, even for promotional purposes. However, Benny seems to have found some success with it, so it essentially comes down to how well you formulate your marketing tactic based on your product.

[E.rOk.stA]

I split a 12" single with another producer friend in Philly. We got 1000 pressed, I still have 400+. We felt it would be cool to "officially" get down in the rap/hip hop game. It was nice to be able to spin my own stuff. Not worth the $$ if we're talkin' profit. We're talkin' Christian Rap though, so my market is pidgeon-holed from the get.

[terrytee]

Originally Posted by illacov

I'm really considering releasing copies of our next album on vinyl (Full Length, as well as Singles). It would be a limited run but I noticed that Vinyl is still alive in the US but really big overseas.

What's everybody's thoughts on good ole Vinyl??

Food for thought: What's your experiences as far as mixing a project thats going to Vinyl nowadays? Is it different compared to back in the days?

Peace
Illumination

Music sales in general keep reducing but the sales of second hand vinyl has shot up. Now there could be 2 reasons for this maybe its just all those DJ's digitizing there collection and selling on old wax or maybe it's listeners wanting to hear pre digital age recordings, the fact still remains the figures are way higher than previous years. But with all this said the figures of new vinyl haven't shot up.

After listening to the music on your myspace, & although it's good, i can't see many of your fans or target audience wanting to own a vinyl record of your work. In fact i wouldn't be surprised if most of them didn't own a record player. As far as DJs benefiting from a 12" nearly all of them are using serato so a MP3 or CD won't be a problem for them as most there new recordings will have started life in that format.

My advice is don't bother unless your making a product that is traditional caught up in the sound & feel of vinyl, i.e. traditional hip-hop or indie/guitar music. If your market isn't there for vinyl your just gonna make a loss.

BTW postage on vinyl's a bitch.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by illacov

I'm really considering releasing copies of our next album on vinyl (Full Length, as well as Singles). It would be a limited run but I noticed that Vinyl is still alive in the US but really big overseas.

What's everybody's thoughts on good ole Vinyl??

Food for thought: What's your experiences as far as mixing a project thats going to Vinyl nowadays? Is it different compared to back in the days?

Peace
Illumination

We (Soultronics) are set to release the new song by Double Exposure,"Soul Recession" as a limited edtion 12 inch vinyl release, a cd sngle and all of the usual download sites.

[phillysoulman]

The home of Archer Record Pressing specializing in Record Pressing, Record Mastering, Record Plating and more.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by terrytee

Music sales in general keep reducing but the sales of second hand vinyl has shot up. Now there could be 2 reasons for this maybe its just all those DJ's digitizing there collection and selling on old wax or maybe it's listeners wanting to hear pre digital age recordings, the fact still remains the figures are way higher than previous years. But with all this said the figures of new vinyl haven't shot up.

After listening to the music on your myspace, & although it's good, i can't see many of your fans or target audience wanting to own a vinyl record of your work. In fact i wouldn't be surprised if most of them didn't own a record player. As far as DJs benefiting from a 12" nearly all of them are using serato so a MP3 or CD won't be a problem for them as most there new recordings will have started life in that format.

My advice is don't bother unless your making a product that is traditional caught up in the sound & feel of vinyl, i.e. traditional hip-hop or indie/guitar music. If your market isn't there for vinyl your just gonna make a loss.

BTW postage on vinyl's a bitch.

While I agree with you as far as type of music etc....I'm not completely throwing marshmellows into clouds. I continuously get requests from DJs asking for vinyl of our stuff (2 copies) because they want to cut it up. Sounds old school right?


So considering we have a little thing going in Europe right now and Europe is still pretty big on Vinyl I figure having a couple hundred copies on wax would be more of a thang than a thing lol.

As Bgrotto mentioned, free digi download of the album if you buy it on wax? While the margin of profit is considerably lower, its still buzz and any buzz that an indie act can get is worth its weight in gold.

Once we finish our next record (mid July), we can see where we stand with getting the album on vinyl.

Keep the responses coming. I'm enjoying this conversation more than Mikos and 808s. Lol

Peace
Illumination

[phillysoulman]

FYI..March 31st was the 60th anniversary of the 45 rpm single.

[terrytee]

Originally Posted by illacov

So considering we have a little thing going in Europe right now and Europe is still pretty big on Vinyl I figure having a couple hundred copies on wax would be more of a thang than a thing lol.

I would be hard stretched to find a pressing plant to do just 200 vinyl at a good price, minimum runs are generally 500 or 1000. I am not gonna swear by it but i think that a run of 200 would be very costly. Over here in europe there seems to be many vinyl shops shutting there doors and calling it a day. I don't wanna discourage you but just make sure you do the figures well enough as postage of small packets to the the EU is very costly and all that wax quickly adds up to some serious weight. Although with all that said if its gonna give your crew a bit more of a buzz it maybe worth the expense.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by terrytee

I would be hard stretched to find a pressing plant to do just 200 vinyl at a good price, minimum runs are generally 500 or 1000. I am not gonna swear by it but i think that a run of 200 would be very costly. Over here in europe there seems to be many vinyl shops shutting there doors and calling it a day. I don't wanna discourage you but just make sure you do the figures well enough as postage of small packets to the the EU is very costly and all that wax quickly adds up to some serious weight. Although with all that said if its gonna give your crew a bit more of a buzz it maybe worth the expense.

When are we gonna get a word up smiley??

Close enough LOL



Peace
Illumination

[terrytee]

Originally Posted by illacov

When are we gonna get a word up smiley??

Close enough LOL



Peace
Illumination

[asylumdigital]

Originally Posted by terrytee

I would be hard stretched to find a pressing plant to do just 200 vinyl at a good price, minimum runs are generally 500 or 1000. I am not gonna swear by it but i think that a run of 200 would be very costly. Over here in europe there seems to be many vinyl shops shutting there doors and calling it a day. I don't wanna discourage you but just make sure you do the figures well enough as postage of small packets to the the EU is very costly and all that wax quickly adds up to some serious weight. Although with all that said if its gonna give your crew a bit more of a buzz it maybe worth the expense.

At least at United Record Pressing in Tennessee, they start @ 100pcs. There does not seem to be any price difference per disc quantity either. The cost of the disc is the cost of the disc... It's really not expensive AT ALL if it is something that you can actually sell. The value of CD's seems to be diminishing.

[work2do]

Doing national tours and promotional runs with artists, I havent seen a radio dj or club dj with vinyl in the United States in almost 4 years. Even the seratos where off of cdjs. In some parts of europe and in japan I have seen vinyl in use still.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by konkaos

In some parts of europe and in japan I have seen vinyl in use still.

Exactly.

In all honesty, I used to be so focused on USA USA USA...considering sales and whatnot, I became truly humbled when my band started getting fans from France, Africa, Japan, Australia, UK, Russian, Czech Republic, Greece etc...

So while we aren't superstars in any regard or part of the major recording industry here, I'm really starting to think that we really should put some attention (I'm talking my band here lol) into the foreign demographic since the majority of our digital and mail order sales is happening overseas.

We sell physical copies at shows to people here in the US all the time, but as you've correctly pointed out, folks overseas really still have something for vinyl that's almost completely lost on the people here for some reason.

And while I understand the dynamic of djs not using vinyl here in the US, there is still that small minority of djs seeking vinyl or refusing to go completely digital.

I'm just saying you end up catering to your audience at some point if you want to stay in the business of being in business lol.


I really started the thread to see if people have been faced with the same decision recently.

I can remember not even 12 years ago, Vinyl was still THE medium to be on. Putting your stuff out only on CD was not the way to get a DJs respect. Maybe if somebody REALLY liked your stuff they might give you a spin, but even independents were saying "record songs, mix and master, put it on vinyl and CDs."

No second thoughts.

Things are different now, but it seems like Vinyl still remains to a niche audience (how big is the real question) as much as recording and mixing from analog tape appears to be.

My real curiosity is how the vinyl mastering process would sonically affect our material. I still get goosebumps about all those cool tales of records burning out the vinyl cutting equipment from the Motown days etc...

Have you guys experienced any sonic differences from pressing your stuff to vinyl vs digital or CD??

Peace
Illumination

[work2do]

Originally Posted by illacov

Have you guys experienced any sonic differences from pressing your stuff to vinyl vs digital or CD??

There is a difference besides the pops and crackles on the vinyl. While technically the dynamic range of vinyl is supposed to be as good or better than cds the reality is unless you are playing that vinyl on one of those $10,000 turntable and cartridge setups ur frequency response is gonna get shaved off at top and bottom with vinyl. Thus giving the illusion that vinyl is "warmer". The more songs you put on one side of vinly the worse it sounds adn the volume usually lowers. Me personally I would never do it in this age of belt tightening unless my market fell into that niche.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by konkaos

There is a difference besides the pops and crackles on the vinyl. While technically the dynamic range of vinyl is supposed to be as good or better than cds the reality is unless you are playing that vinyl on one of those $10,000 turntable and cartridge setups ur frequency response is gonna get shaved off at top and bottom with vinyl. Thus giving the illusion that vinyl is "warmer". The more songs you put on one side of vinly the worse it sounds adn the volume usually lowers. Me personally I would never do it in this age of belt tightening unless my market fell into that niche.

Actually, the dynamic range of vinyl (or any analog format) is much less than that of digital. Perhaps you're confusing the fact that vinyl records cannot be mastered as loudly, thus the more of the music's dynamic range is preserved.

Anyway, you don't need a $10k turntable rig to maintain full bandwidth. There are a lot of quality setups that can be had for much, MUCH shorter change. My rig cost just over a thousand dollars (not counting the speakers, mind you!), and absolutely buries my digital playback formats.

Last, the pops and cackles are only present on old, damaged records. A well-maintained or new record will run almost silently, save for some familiar surface noise, and depending on the rig you use, even that might be almost nonexistent (or at least well below the ambient noise of the room you're listening in).