Vocal Chain Upgrade- Thoughts needed

[unfadeable]

Whatsup sluts? I finally feel like i saved up enough money (5k) to step up my modest home studio vocal chain and need some advice. My current vocal chain is an akg c414/re-27>Symetrix 528>Digi 002>Alesis Monitors. So obviously there is alot of room for improvement all over the place... My goal is to have a setup primarly for vocal tracking that can produce a product potentially radio ready after a good mix. I only do hip-hop/rap/r&B. A studio i work out of is upgrading gear so i am going to be getting a pair of NS-10's and a bryston amp for real cheap which covers the monitoring. After months of research, testing gear and reading posts on here i am seriously considering the following but am torn between...

1. API A2D - Would obviously give me new pres and better converters then the 002 and seems like a no brainer but my question is whats the solution for the D/A playback????

2.Apogee Rosetta 200- I've always been luke warm on how they sounded but i don't need any more then 2 channels at home so this would be fine and would be a big upgrade from the 002 converters. Plus you can snag a used one pretty cheap on ebay.
- If i went with this option the best pre's i have personaly heard for the money IMO i would say are the A Designs Pacificia, api 512c or a Martech. I would love me some neve 10xx pres but there too damn expensive right now...

For the comp i think the distressor is a soild first step.

Let me know what you guys think! Regards

[NesNeedsGear]

try RME ad/da (I use it all the time) solid drivers, good sound.

compressor...distressor or fatso. I use both successfully. I also like the UA 1176LN released version.

pre's

API, GR, daking, avalon 737 (*gasp!) so many different applications man. you're on your own with this one.

[Docmattic]

what type of sound do you want.

[unfadeable]

Going for a professional up front sound that requires little to make it fit in the mix. In terms of pres i work with an Avalon or neve in studio b of my go to spot. Evertime i get good results with the Avalon and have recorded lots of big name industry heads on it. But if i am personally buying something and am shelling out some decent money for it i want something better which is why i was thinking api or the pacificia or maybe even the martech- all of those IMO sound better then the Avalon...

[ChaosCreation]

apogee symphony? or rossetta? for ad DA?
why not get a five hundred series preamp, and compressor? eq?
api? pacifica? a designs ? with room to grow?
maybe ad a telefunken ak47?

[SmileOnImpact]

I can vouch for the Apogee Rosetta.
It's such a pimp little box.
The 20db of Soft Limit means that I use Very little compression on my Vocal tracks.
I don't even have a compressor in my outboard chain, now.
I just stopped using it.
And the sound..... awesome.

[ucanhatemenow]

For the playback go with the Benchmark DAC1 it by most opinions sound slightly better and is cheaper( $1,800 vs. $1,000 ) than the Rosetta n' will complement the API A2D; I'm gonna get one to go with my RME Fireface 400 it's really considered to compare with DAC's that cost much more. The RME A/D converters do sound nice for the price point: I actually want to upgrade n' go real high end but other sluts seem to think I won't notice much improvement unless I jump for a UA 2192 so I'm gonna save n' go for the Burl B2 all the sluts been ravin' about.

[ninjasoards]

Im pretty happy with my A2D to Mbox Pro to Lavry DA10 setup.

[mistaD]

MA5 ($775) for the neve sound, U47 style mic (Arabella, Pearlman TM-1 or Peluso 2247LE) all those mics are less then $2k, distressor for flexibility or a used summit tla, or a used CL1B, and used apogee rosetta 200 $1200 or used UA 2192 if ur budget can handle it would be killer.

[darkman2]

i have a mbox2 API a2d hook up along with a neve 5043 comp ..

i was going to get the benchmark dac but i upgraded my monitors

and got the jbl lsr4328p im using the spdif to both monitors..

and works and sounds good to me ...

[BB3]

I'm throwing in another recommendation for 500 series.

You get flexability to mix and match and grow. And most mic pre modules are under $800 bucks. Once you have few pres, a comp or two, and an eq, you can set up various vocal chains/channel strips and have alot of colors to choose from.

I must agree with mistaD. I'm digging the MA5 to Distressor combo with a tube condenser for most vocals lately.

Good Luck
Bob from New Hampshire

[badhorsie777]

I'd say for the money you absolutely have to try the Black Lion Audio Auteur preamp. I've been putting it through its paces and it excells at everything I throw at it - transformerless input (fast FAST transients and very quiet) and a larger-than-life tranny output. The designer has been wicked helpful and it's amazing to reach the designer and owner of the product by email in less than a day.

Killer for vocals with my AT 4050 and if you find yourself needing to do any acoustic instruments, it's the stuff. $475 for two channels is an absolute steal. Leaves room for a fat d/a, a/d (they have an a/d that I will have in a few days to try out), monitors, treatment (I'm learning with better gear you hear the problems in your room more!), and dynamics.

I will say that the 500 idea sounds killer, but you can't beat the price on these pres - I'm thinking rap vocals would really benefit from the bigger than life sound (but somehow still natural... wierd) throw the extra cash at a high-end converter, or go 500-series and load the box with comps (like the anamod everyone loves or the buzz ones or the komit or... or...) and some eq's and have a crazy flexible amount of choices.

Can't say too many good things about the Auteur. Check the BLA website.

-Matt

[Spy!]

Just out of interest, where are you currently recording your vocals (as in which room and where in that room)? Is your recording space acoustically treated? Similarly, is your monitoring space (i.e. where you playback/mix your tracks) treated either?

Five grand can buy a professional solution and probably still leave change for some extra goodies. If you go the DIY route you'll spend even less (how much less depends on how dirty you want your hands to get and the availability of materials in your area) leaving even more money left over for new gear.

$ - 98c

[unfadeable]

Thanks for all the input- the api lunchbox i think is a go because of the flexibility to add different comps/eq's/ different pres for fair prices. I guess im leaning away from the A2d because i have no way of hearing it and it doesnt have D/A so i feel like the rosetta or a lynx would just be more flexable. Ive made the mistake over the years of buying cheapish gear which ive just ended up being dissatisfied with and eventully selling. So on this trip if i think its looking like the api lunchbox/brent averill 1073 and a rosetta 200 or a Lynx Aurora 8... Im really in no rush so ill save up some more and get a new neumann ish mic and a comp and i should hopefully be content.

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by unfadeable

Thanks for all the input- the api lunchbox i think is a go because of the flexibility to add different comps/eq's/ different pres for fair prices. I guess im leaning away from the A2d because i have no way of hearing it and it doesnt have D/A so i feel like the rosetta or a lynx would just be more flexable. Ive made the mistake over the years of buying cheapish gear which ive just ended up being dissatisfied with and eventully selling. So on this trip if i think its looking like the api lunchbox/brent averill 1073 and a rosetta 200 or a Lynx Aurora 8... Im really in no rush so ill save up some more and get a new neumann ish mic and a comp and i should hopefully be content.

The Lynx Aurora is certainly a great option but you mention a 500 series rack with a BAE 1073. The 1073 module is not a 500 series module and either comes in a 1U rack or as a standalone module that you can fit into either an 8-way BAE Neve rack or the 2-way BAE Neve rack.

Also remember that you'll need a monitor controller to go along with the Aurora so you can properly adjust the volume and mute (as well as potentially use multiple pairs of monitors).

[solidstate]

Well Rosetta 200 is a very good box for the $$. I did noticed a BIG improvement when i hooked up to the DAX-16 clock(same as BB). Are you going to use a mac? Apogee's symphony system is a no brainer. If i were you i'd stay away from this clones/copy cat like BAE.. Sure they sound good.. But they ain't no NEVE. Only the offcial neve reissues sound like a real 10xx. Personally i'm not an API fan, but the 512 seem to be pretty standard in world class studios. On the clean side, Marantz Nss10 get my vote followed by the Avalon 737. Lastly the best tracking compressor i've come across is the TT Cl1b. Very smooth, silky yet invisible.. Distressor work on a lot of things, but not on vocals. My 2 cents.

[unfadeable]

Just out of interest, where are you currently recording your vocals (as in which room and where in that room)? Is your recording space acoustically treated? Similarly, is your monitoring space (i.e. where you playback/mix your tracks) treated either?

As far as my control room goes its just a fairly large spare bedroom. The vocal booth is really its own room its so big but is technically a huge walk in closet that i treated years ago. It's as dead as its ever going to get and is fine for vox.

Kittonian- sorry i wasn't clear- i meant that i am still considering getting a lunchbox with a 512 and some other pieces OR a rack mount BAE 1073 among some other pres i want to demo. I am aware they are not compatible I checked out your online store and you have alot of great stuff so i will be giving you a call soon to discuss. BTW anybody have an idea of how the BAE 1073 compares to the Aurora Audio GTQ2mkIII?? My friend has a GTQ2mkIII and i think it sounds pretty damn good on vox but i have never heard the BAE. I've seen some neve clone comparisons on here but i have never heard how these two stack up to each other...

Also remember that you'll need a monitor controller to go along with the Aurora so you can properly adjust the volume and mute (as well as potentially use multiple pairs of monitors).

Hmm i overlooked that detail i guess... maybe i will just settle for the Rosetta 200 for now so i can get a more serious pre because my chain needs to be the strongest comming in. I have some NS-10's and some crappy alesis monitors so im not too concerned with amazing playback as i will mainly just be doing rough mixes and moving the work to a mix engineer.

If i were you i'd stay away from this clones/copy cat like BAE.. Sure they sound good.. But they ain't no NEVE. Only the offcial neve reissues sound like a real 10xx. Personally i'm not an API fan, but the 512 seem to be pretty standard in world class studios. On the clean side, Marantz Nss10 get my vote followed by the Avalon 737. Lastly the best tracking compressor i've come across is the TT Cl1b. Very smooth, silky yet invisible.. Distressor work on a lot of things, but not on vocals. My 2 cents.

I see your point but im on a budget here! If i had more money of course i would spring for the original Neve's but i don't so i have to make a compromise. As for the API pres it's all a matter of opinion because i really think they sound good and i like the idea of having a lunchbox that i can get alot of different sounds out of. Again, if i had more money to drop of course i would spring for a saucy comp like the Tube Tech, UA LA-2A, 1176 or dbx 160 but i don't on this trip. I figured the distressor would get a solid first step and can get me by for a few months untill i can get one of those. Everyone on here seems to hate the Avalon and i understand why to an extent but i have gotten some good results out of it. It is used still to some extent on at least a few songs on most rap/rnb albums that come out. If i could get one for dirt cheap sure i would take one but i just don't really have the desire to buy one for my personal home studio because i feel like i can get something IMO that sounds better for the money. BTW what is the Marantz Nss10?? Curious about that one..

[DIGI ENT]

unfadeable wuts good? since you already have a nice practice setup and now your ready to get on that pro level, you gotta realize that acoustics play the most vital role in getting your vocals sounding right. i dont know the size of your booth (or vocal recording space) but if its roomy enough to treat properly, DO IT! GIK Acoustics is a good place to start. High quality, great prices. As far as equipment goes......

my chain=AK47-->MA5-->BMD Komit-->Rosetta 200-->Coleman TB4MKII-->Dynaudios....mogami cables......

Use to own a P1 and a Purlpe action...... the P1 is real nice...might end up buying another. out...

[solidstate]

Originally Posted by unfadeable

I see your point but im on a budget here! If i had more money of course i would spring for the original Neve's but i don't so i have to make a compromise. As for the API pres it's all a matter of opinion because i really think they sound good and i like the idea of having a lunchbox that i can get alot of different sounds out of. Again, if i had more money to drop of course i would spring for a saucy comp like the Tube Tech, UA LA-2A, 1176 or dbx 160 but i don't on this trip. I figured the distressor would get a solid first step and can get me by for a few months untill i can get one of those. Everyone on here seems to hate the Avalon and i understand why to an extent but i have gotten some good results out of it. It is used still to some extent on at least a few songs on most rap/rnb albums that come out. If i could get one for dirt cheap sure i would take one but i just don't really have the desire to buy one for my personal home studio because i feel like i can get something IMO that sounds better for the money. BTW what is the Marantz Nss10?? Curious about that one..

sorry.. lol.. it's martin sound Mss10

MartinSound MSS-10 Microphone Preamplifier | VintageKing.com

It's one of my favorite clean pre. I think that the ppl who are bashing the 737 so hard they probably never used one or they've never used one properly. For the $$ it's a great box with a nice pre, a good compressor and an excellent eq. It sounds really good with a u87 and c800g. Now as far you don't have enough $$ right now.. Just buy one thing at the time.. I would take a 1176/cl1b/1073/ns110 anyday over ANY Bae, avedis, purple, distressors.. I understand that the converters are very subjective. I just happen to love the apogee sound

[Exmun]

Just in case it wasn't made crystal clear, the Rosetta 200 is both A/D and D/A so you have some redundancy by getting both the Rosetta and the API A2D.

If you went the route of the A2D, you would be better served getting something like the Lavry DA10 (or DA11 for a few more dollars). Either of these are cheaper than a Rosetta and you'd only be buying D/A, which is all that you'd need with the A2D. With some of that extra money you could work on getting something more to add to your chain.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by unfadeable

Whatsup sluts? I finally feel like i saved up enough money (5k) to step up my modest home studio vocal chain and need some advice. My current vocal chain is an akg c414/re-27>Symetrix 528>Digi 002>Alesis Monitors. So obviously there is alot of room for improvement all over the place... My goal is to have a setup primarly for vocal tracking that can produce a product potentially radio ready after a good mix. I only do hip-hop/rap/r&B. A studio i work out of is upgrading gear so i am going to be getting a pair of NS-10's and a bryston amp for real cheap which covers the monitoring. After months of research, testing gear and reading posts on here i am seriously considering the following but am torn between...

1. API A2D - Would obviously give me new pres and better converters then the 002 and seems like a no brainer but my question is whats the solution for the D/A playback????

2.Apogee Rosetta 200- I've always been luke warm on how they sounded but i don't need any more then 2 channels at home so this would be fine and would be a big upgrade from the 002 converters. Plus you can snag a used one pretty cheap on ebay.
- If i went with this option the best pre's i have personaly heard for the money IMO i would say are the A Designs Pacificia, api 512c or a Martech. I would love me some neve 10xx pres but there too damn expensive right now...

For the comp i think the distressor is a soild first step.

Let me know what you guys think! Regards

You only have $5,000. Drop the hype, don't go overboard.
I would look into a Neve 8801 if I were you. You get a stellar Neve pre (which sounds really amazing), compressor, EQ + a gang of other options.
It'll save you at least $2,000. You'll thank me.

[unfadeable]

You only have $5,000. Drop the hype, don't go overboard.
I would look into a Neve 8801 if I were you. You get a stellar Neve pre (which sounds really amazing), compressor, EQ + a gang of other options.
It'll save you at least $2,000. You'll thank me.

Wow... that wasn't even on my radar! Thanks for mentioning this it really looks like a beast. They carry them at Vintage King which is close by so hopefully they can hook it up and let me demo it so i can hear how it sounds.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by unfadeable

Wow... that wasn't even on my radar! Thanks for mentioning this it really looks like a beast. They carry them at Vintage King which is close by so hopefully they can hook it up and let me demo it so i can hear how it sounds.

np
Happy hunting!

[Audio Enginerd]

If it were up to me, I wouldn't get the Rosetta for D/A. They are too colored from my experience, and that is far from what I want when I am listening to playback or mixing. I got the Mytek 8x192 instead and love it! I would probably go for the D/A in the Central Station before going Rosetta. (considering the price difference) Some people may be very unhappy with that statement... You could explore getting the API with the A/D and maybe get the CS for D/A. Although, for a few hundred more you could get a 2 channel Mytek or Benchmark A/D.

[DIGI ENT]

Originally Posted by Audio Enginerd

I would probably go for the D/A in the Central Station before going Rosetta. .

[Audio Enginerd]

I know, I know... but consider the context...(considering the price difference) What I am saying is if you are going to spend that much then get something more accurate on the D/A side. Maybe the Rosetta color is something that some like for tracking, but it just isn't something I would want feeding my monitors. I'M just not a fan. I bought one and sent it back. You can pay a much smaller price for another converter just as colored and inaccurate. I have the central station, but I use my Mytek 8x192 for the D/A. This works for me just dandy.

[Rednose]

Originally Posted by unfadeable

Going for a professional up front sound that requires little to make it fit in the mix. In terms of pres i work with an Avalon or neve in studio b of my go to spot. Evertime i get good results with the Avalon and have recorded lots of big name industry heads on it. But if i am personally buying something and am shelling out some decent money for it i want something better which is why i was thinking api or the pacificia or maybe even the martech- all of those IMO sound better then the Avalon...

If you want upfront, go for the API, its a no brainer!
The 737 is a great box too, but its more sheen than the API.
The API has the upfront mids I believe you are looking for.

Save some $$$ for room treament or all your front end gear will have limited effect.
I'm talking get some 703 and learn how to build some panels.
I did it and I'm no handyman.

You can't go wrong with the Lunbox. You can add pres, eqs, and comps as your budget allows, go that route! The 512c RAWKS.

[unfadeable]

Im not spending any money to treat my control room even if it does only cost 200 bucks or whatever to make some panels and hang them up. The entire purpose of upgrading my home studio is primarly for vocal tracking so i can make some more money on the side opposed to letting the studios i work at make most of the $. I am primarly just doing rough mixes to burn on cd for an artist after a session. Then the next day or whatever i pull up the session at the real studio if theres time or have one of my friends who actually is a bonified mix engineer mix it then thats the formula. Sure i can and have gotten good results out of mixing at home but its not ideal and mixing in a great acoustic enviroment will always yeild better restuls- trust me i understand that. My vocal booth is treated and is dead. I'm really only concerned about the signal comming in. Anyways i ordered an apogee rosetta 200 which should be here Tuesday and i think im about to pull the trigger on the neve 8801 right now!

[DIGI ENT]

Originally Posted by unfadeable

Anyways i ordered an apogee rosetta 200 which should be here Tuesday and i think im about to pull the trigger on the neve 8801 right now!

P.s.

make sure your vocal booth is treated PROPERLY! not just dead

[goldenlotus]

Originally Posted by unfadeable

Im not spending any money to treat my control room even if it does only cost 200 bucks or whatever to make some panels and hang them up. The entire purpose of upgrading my home studio is primarly for vocal tracking so i can make some more money on the side opposed to letting the studios i work at make most of the $. I am primarly just doing rough mixes to burn on cd for an artist after a session. Then the next day or whatever i pull up the session at the real studio if theres time or have one of my friends who actually is a bonified mix engineer mix it then thats the formula. Sure i can and have gotten good results out of mixing at home but its not ideal and mixing in a great acoustic enviroment will always yeild better restuls- trust me i understand that. My vocal booth is treated and is dead. I'm really only concerned about the signal comming in. Anyways i ordered an apogee rosetta 200 which should be here Tuesday and i think im about to pull the trigger on the neve 8801 right now!

Yeah but you need to be able to really hear the signal coming in. Treating your listening environment will help you make better decisions during the tracking phase.