Upgrading my converters, Mbox wont cut it, suggestions?

[ginsuthaironchef]

From what I currently understand I cannot bipass the Mbox2 using SPDIF. I want to upgrade to something like the Lavry DA10 or UA2192, but I wanna stick with PTLE because I don't want to spend the time to learn a new program.

Both units I'm considering only have 2 channels, and I wont be using the new PT compattible interface for any AD conversion, so I dont think I need to go high end at all right? Something simple should work. Can someone also help me further understand the latency issue that will not allow me to use my Mbox2 in conjuntion with these better quality converters?

Thanks.

[ginsuthaironchef]

20 views? Throw me a fricken bone here.

[jikky]

Sh1t idk, but I'll give u a bump.

[irthwirm]

wrong. I know a engineer that uses mbox 2 pro with rosetta 2oo and big ben and works in 96 if needed

[irthwirm]

so you would use the pre amps from the mbox but use another converter. Seems like it should be the otherway around then upgrade your converters.

[TheMIXIMAL]

Originally Posted by ginsuthaironchef

From what I currently understand I cannot bipass the Mbox2 using SPDIF. I want to upgrade to something like the Lavry DA10 or UA2192, but I wanna stick with PTLE because I don't want to spend the time to learn a new program.

Both units I'm considering only have 2 channels, and I wont be using the new PT compattible interface for any AD conversion, so I dont think I need to go high end at all right? Something simple should work. Can someone also help me further understand the latency issue that will not allow me to use my Mbox2 in conjuntion with these better quality converters?

Thanks.

Hi.
Depends on the sound you are looking for and the number of channels you need and the price you are willing to spend.

If you need 2 channels only: Benchmark, Apogee, Lavry, Mytek, 2192. I would go with the 2192, personally.

8 or more channels: Lynx Auroras are cool for the price, SSLs are nice, Apogees are velvety.



Latency has to do with MBox, not necessarily external converters themselves.

[dhiltonlittle]

a friend of mine uses the UA 2192 and mbox 2 with bae 1073's in front of it.

connect the outs of the pre's to the ins of your converter and spdif out to the spdif in on the mbox two.

now in protools the spdif l/r should be available as an input.

[irthwirm]

basically what im saying is high end converters for low end pre amps just doesn't make sense. i could be wrong but i think if you trying to upgrade your recording chain i would start first with a good solid pre. mbox pro 2 will be fine for converting till you take the next step to hi end converters which will cost you at least a grand just for the a/d. You'll hear a better upgrade in sound if you start with your pre's first.

[Docmattic]

i havnt had any issues with my black lion audio 'sparrow.' decent for the money.

depending on how much you want to spend you could go with that or put in a bit extra for a mytek

if you want to go low check out echos range of products.

[ginsuthaironchef]

Thanks for all the input fellas.

basically what im saying is high end converters for low end pre amps just doesn't make sense. i could be wrong but i think if you trying to upgrade your recording chain i would start first with a good solid pre.

I actually just picked up an Avedis MA5, and I'm still using a SM7b. I'm now realizing that the Mbox2 converters will basically kidnap the color and quality I've spent on the MA5. So I thoght, "ohh ok, I need to upgrade my converters." So I looked into the UA2192 and Lavry AD10. Then a few people informed me that I can't connect the AD10 and Mbox via SPDIF due to latency?

a friend of mine uses the UA 2192 and mbox 2 with bae 1073's in front of it.
connect the outs of the pre's to the ins of your converter and spdif out to the spdif in on the mbox two.
now in protools the spdif l/r should be available as an input.

I was planning on doing the exact same thingbut then some one told me that I could not connect the AD -Mbox via SPDIF? Am I misinformed?

Hi.
Depends on the sound you are looking for and the number of channels you need and the price you are willing to spend.
If you need 2 channels only: Benchmark, Apogee, Lavry, Mytek, 2192. I would go with the 2192, personally.
8 or more channels: Lynx Auroras are cool for the price, SSLs are nice, Apogees are velvety.

I would like 8 channels because I make beats using an S950 and MPC60. The Mbox converters suck the life out of my S950, and the sound is really harsh on the high end. Tonight I will try tracking my beats thru the MA5 first. Maybe that will help. It sucks plugging and pulling every 2 tracks, and I dont want to ruin the in's and out's this way. But all the quality stuff I've seen with 8 channels is way out of my budget. So I guess I'm cool with 2 channels. It seems that 12-1500 is a reasonable amount to spend on 2 channels of quality AD conversion.

So what is the consensus? Can I run a high quality AD converter like the 2192 or AD10 thru SPDIF on the Mbox2 (not pro)? Or do I need another PT interface?

Thanks again.

[Lemonsqueezer]

Originally Posted by ginsuthaironchef

So what is the consensus? Can I run a high quality AD converter like the 2192 or AD10 thru SPDIF on the Mbox2 (not pro)? Or do I need another PT interface?

Thanks again.

I have a 002rack and want to know the same thing.

[irthwirm]

oh with the ma5 then yeah get a good converter! what's your budget? I've heard good things about the sparrow as mentioned above. Might want to contact black lion audio and see how it works with the mbox. I thought i heard something about there being an issue with even the mbox 2 pro's

you have the mbox pro 2 correct?

[TheMIXIMAL]

Originally Posted by ginsuthaironchef

I would like 8 channels

1,200-1,500: Black Lion or Apogee Rosetta 200 (Apogee may be a bit more, around $1750 from Mercenary Audio).
Black Lion Audio Micro ADC
Mercenary Audio - Apogee Rosetta 200 2 channel AD/DA converter

Latency should not be noticeably more than the MBox's analog section, unless there is something quirkly with the MBox I don't know about... (I've used Digi002 before, not Mbox).

[ginsuthaironchef]

you have the mbox pro 2 correct?

Nope. Just a regular lame ass mbox. I always planned on upgrading my converters later, it was just the cheapest way to get into pt.

1,200-1,500: Black Lion or Apogee Rosetta 200 (Apogee may be a bit more, around $1750 from Mercenary Audio).
Black Lion Audio Micro ADC
Mercenary Audio - Apogee Rosetta 200 2 channel AD/DA converter

Would you compare those units to either the Lavry AD10 (clean and transparent), or the UA2192 (colored)?

My budget is sort of up in the air. It's hard for me to tell how much money I need to spend to be satisfied. I like the description of the UA2192 but its like 3k because it has AD and DA converters. I can get a Lynx Aurora with AD and DA AAND 8 channels for $2000.

Which leads me to my next question....I never even considered needing DA conversion...wtf is that for? Where does the signal go after it has been converted back to analog? Sheeesh. Once upon a time I was a humble battle emcee(<does that exsist?). Then I decided to make beats...then I decided to start making music...then I realized that I must invest much more money than originally expected to achieve the sound I want...Am I on the path of becoming a gear slut? haha

[Leon Freeze]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

wrong. I know a engineer that uses mbox 2 pro with rosetta 2oo and big ben and works in 96 if needed

C'mon man..it's in the specs. Recording MAY be possible via SPDIF but not external clocking. Here's a 'cut and paste' excerpt directly from Digidesign's Mbox 2 Pro 'specifications' page.....

Supported Sample Rates**: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 kHz
Maximum Word Length: 24 bit
S/PDIF: RCA jacks
Word Clock: BNC jacks
Host Connection: Two IEEE-1394a (FireWire) jacks.
MIDI: Two 5-pin MIDI DIN connectors

And the fine print....
All noise and dynamic range measurements with 20 Hz to 20 kHz bandwidth at 48 kHz sample rates, unless otherwise noted.
ADC measured -60 dBFS at 1 kHz with minimum gain setting; DAC with digital playback at -60 dBFS at 1 kHz.
Frequency response measurements relative to level at 1 kHz.
* RIAA equalization and sensitivity measured at 1 kHz.
** External clock supports up to 48 kHz sample rates

And to clarify, this is not about right vs. wrong, etc. This is about providing people with accurate information so they can decide for themselves based on the inherent limitations. I invite anybody to check the specs for themselves. In any case, you have to be careful with Protools LE...Digidesign has intentionally limited certain aspects of LE's capabilities...for example with the M-Audio 'Profire' joints...no LE SMUX support...stuck with a max. of 8 digital outs for summing purposes.

I encourage cats to do the research and read the fine print, it will save you some potential headaches or disappointments down the line. If by chance the Mbox 2 series works great with SPDIF @ 96K then Digidesign has listed inaccurate information. No flame wars please, I will test an associate's Mbox 2 Pro regarding this issue as I stated in the 'Mbox 2 pro vs. 002' thread.

EDIT: On topic, to the OP I would recommend looking at M-Powered with an M-Audio interface. Lots of good options on that side of things if you want to stick with Protools LE and not spend a grip.

[joeydego]

wow, my m audio FW 410 is now basically a dongle for PT, nothing more. I have a rosetta 200 and use it as the clock and ad/da via spidf. HUGE improvement.

[dhiltonlittle]

i don't understand the confusion....spdif, hook it up and record. any le system is going to have latency.

[Lemonsqueezer]

Just to jump in I have used m-audio and now have 002rack.....quite a jump in quality to be noticed!!

[Vulf]

Hook it up via S/PDIF and change the settings on PT. S/PDIF bypasses the MBox converters.

I am currently running MPC 3000 - API A2D pres - A2D converters - S/PDIF to MBox classic. Works perfect for me. MBox is completely bypassed (convertors and pres) and does not do anything to the sound.

[TheMIXIMAL]

Originally Posted by ginsuthaironchef

Would you compare those units to either the Lavry AD10 (clean and transparent), or the UA2192 (colored)?

The Black Lion should sound good (I haven't heard it yet, but I know about the company and their clock). Lynx sounds very good-- very clean and accurate.

The UA2192 is in a different sonic league due to the fact its analog stages are discrete, not IC ships. This doesn't make a big difference frequency-wise, but makes a difference vibe-wise. The UA recording sound very 'alive' and 'dynamic' in comparison to opamp devices.

Sometimes, the IC vibe is better, sometimes discrete is better. It's a taste issue. I really like to hear Jazz recorded through the 2192, and I really don't like to listen to the same music recorded through ICs. But, when mixing, sometimes I prefer ICs to give a 'smoothness' and 'gloss' to the sound.

The Apogee is an IC opamp based device. The IC's are based on JFETs junction Field Effect Transistors which sound tube-like. The Apogees are very smooth and velvety-- very easy to listen-to. Can be kindof soft for certain things.

The UA2192 sounds excellent. Period. But not for everything.


If you want clean and smooth, check out the Black Lion, Lavry, or Lynx. If you want smooth and buttery, check out the Apogees. If you want live and dynamic, check out the UA.

[rhodesp04]

Originally Posted by ginsuthaironchef

Nope. Just a regular lame ass mbox. I always planned on upgrading my converters later, it was just the cheapest way to get into pt.



Would you compare those units to either the Lavry AD10 (clean and transparent), or the UA2192 (colored)?

My budget is sort of up in the air. It's hard for me to tell how much money I need to spend to be satisfied. I like the description of the UA2192 but its like 3k because it has AD and DA converters. I can get a Lynx Aurora with AD and DA AAND 8 channels for $2000.

Which leads me to my next question....I never even considered needing DA conversion...wtf is that for? Where does the signal go after it has been converted back to analog? Sheeesh. Once upon a time I was a humble battle emcee(<does that exsist?). Then I decided to make beats...then I decided to start making music...then I realized that I must invest much more money than originally expected to achieve the sound I want...Am I on the path of becoming a gear slut? haha

d->a convertors are for mixing/summing otb. You would have to have an interface that has outs and connect that to the d/a box to give the best possible signal flow to your outboard gear or summing box. after you make your signal processing choices with your outboard gear (choose to eq, compress, etc.) you feed the a/d back to get the best possible digital information back to your computer. holla at me if that doesn't make sense.

[spitfire8898]

Originally Posted by Vulf

Hook it up via S/PDIF and change the settings on PT. S/PDIF bypasses the MBox converters.

I am currently running MPC 3000 - API A2D pres - A2D converters - S/PDIF to MBox classic. Works perfect for me. MBox is completely bypassed (convertors and pres) and does not do anything to the sound.

Same setup here thumbsup
different MPC and interface, but I love the A2D

[ginsuthaironchef]

haha. Spitfire has the best Avitar on gs.

You don't have any problems slaving your mpc using the A2d converters Spit?

[ninjasoards]

API A2D > MBox 2 Pro > Lavry DA10 here. Sounds great.

[NonSpecific]

I've been considerin adding a converter to my chain but is it worth it if you are still limited by the USB connection of the Mbox? I considered going to the 002 rack for the FireWire.

[spitfire8898]

Originally Posted by ginsuthaironchef

haha. Spitfire has the best Avitar on gs.

You don't have any problems slaving your mpc using the A2d converters Spit?

No problems here, I have the a2d setup through spdif on my mbox pro and changed the hardware settings.
I usually just track through the a2d and then line it up later- no syncing...PITA i know...
been meaning to get another midi cable, but you know how that goes...

and thanks for the avatar love!

[spitfire8898]

Originally Posted by NonSpecific

I've been considerin adding a converter to my chain but is it worth it if you are still limited by the USB connection of the Mbox? I considered going to the 002 rack for the FireWire.

Firewire definitely has it's pros over USB...with how cheap 002r's are lately, I don't see any reason not to upgrade.
you could also to the exchange program and get a 003 if you choose

http://akmedia.digidesign.com/news/d...2008_54190.pdf

[Lemonsqueezer]

What are these pros of firewire? Longer cable length? marginal speed increase? apparent hot plug ability?

I have found USB to be more stable.

[Masterginxx]

apogee mini me...clean pres..two more mic/line channels...bypasses the mbox conv....and you can clock your mbox w/ the spdif

[spitfire8898]

FW reads, writes, and transfers data transfer....

Now that's not to say that USB doesn't have it's pros over FW either
There are alot more peripherals that are USB compliant...thumbsup