The rules!

[skiroy]

Okay so I know there are no rules and this is a stupid question.But when making beats how many chords do you end up using? My homiemade a hot beat and when I analyzed the chords he was using only 2. Obviously your not going to use as many chords as a R&B reack unless your going for that sound and I know you can do what ever you want, but do you usually stay around 4 different chords for beats? picture the first time you ever put your hands on a keyboard.Was it over whelming?Thats where im at. Im learning scales and progressions but its overwhelming to try and make music.

[psycho_monkey]

hoever said there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers obviously never logged on here.....

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by skiroy

Okay so I know there are no rules and this is a stupid question.But when making beats how many chords do you end up using? My homiemade a hot beat and when I analyzed the chords he was using only 2. Obviously your not going to use as many chords as a R&B reack unless your going for that sound and I know you can do what ever you want, but do you usually stay around 4 different chords for beats? picture the first time you ever put your hands on a keyboard.Was it over whelming?Thats where im at. Im learning scales and progressions but its overwhelming to try and make music.

IMO, it depends on the vibe you're looking for... I usually stay around the 4 chord mark... If you play TOO many chords, it's starts to sound like an R&B track... Sometimes, you can use more chords in the bridge just to change up the monotony...

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by skiroy

Okay so I know there are no rules and this is a stupid question.But when making beats how many chords do you end up using? My homiemade a hot beat and when I analyzed the chords he was using only 2. Obviously your not going to use as many chords as a R&B reack unless your going for that sound and I know you can do what ever you want, but do you usually stay around 4 different chords for beats? picture the first time you ever put your hands on a keyboard.Was it over whelming?Thats where im at. Im learning scales and progressions but its overwhelming to try and make music.

it depends. Some Beatles songs or old Funk records aren't more than 4 chords either, but Hip-Hop is usually loop-based so it's not very "hip-hop" to have an arrangement which uses a lot of chords or different chord-progressions. Nonetheless, I'm sure there are exceptions out there.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by skiroy

Okay so I know there are no rules and this is a stupid question.But when making beats how many chords do you end up using? My homiemade a hot beat and when I analyzed the chords he was using only 2. Obviously your not going to use as many chords as a R&B reack unless your going for that sound and I know you can do what ever you want, but do you usually stay around 4 different chords for beats? picture the first time you ever put your hands on a keyboard.Was it over whelming?Thats where im at. Im learning scales and progressions but its overwhelming to try and make music.

Creativity has no boundaries,so its all up to you my friend.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by The Dutch Master

it depends. Some Beatles songs or old Funk records aren't more than 4 chords either, but Hip-Hop is usually loop-based so it's not very "hip-hop" to have an arrangement which uses a lot of chords or different chord-progressions. Nonetheless, I'm sure there are exceptions out there.

Yep..thats why most of it is SO boring from a musical perspective.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by skiroy

Im learning scales and progressions but its overwhelming to try and make music.

That's you're problem right there. I know you ask a lot of more questions on the technical side but when you are talking about creating music, you need not over-think things. I have been playing music since I was 5 years old. Never have I once thought about how many chords I need to make a song. Just make a fukking song! Don't ask questions like this. Don't let your brain try and make it way more complicated than it is.

Just do it. If you"don't get it" or are having trouble, stop for a while and just listen to music that you like and also music that you normally don't listen to.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by skiroy

Okay so I know there are no rules and this is a stupid question.But when making beats how many chords do you end up using? My homiemade a hot beat and when I analyzed the chords he was using only 2. Obviously your not going to use as many chords as a R&B reack unless your going for that sound and I know you can do what ever you want, but do you usually stay around 4 different chords for beats? picture the first time you ever put your hands on a keyboard.Was it over whelming?Thats where im at. Im learning scales and progressions but its overwhelming to try and make music.

Are you a VIRGO??

[MPC DON]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Yep..thats why most of it is SO boring from a musical perspective.

says the guy who lives in the rap/hip hop forum on gearslutz.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by MPC DON

says the guy who lives in the rap/hip hop forum on gearslutz.

Aah..another defensive hip hop afficianado!!
Thats right....but its still boring.
Now,of course I do LOVE rap/hip hop which is NOT made for mindless idiots.

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by ryst

That's you're problem right there. I know you ask a lot of more questions on the technical side but when you are talking about creating music, you need not over-think things. I have been playing music since I was 5 years old. Never have I once thought about how many chords I need to make a song. Just make a fukking song! Don't ask questions like this. Don't let your brain try and make it way more complicated than it is.

Just do it. If you"don't get it" or are having trouble, stop for a while and just listen to music that you like and also music that you normally don't listen to.

I cant make a fukkin song yet. I get to a certain point that it goes nowhere, and the problem is I dont know enough of how music works yet.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by MPC DON

says the guy who lives in the rap/hip hop forum on gearslutz.

I'm sure he likes some of the better stuff out there....

and I can surely appreciate the craftsmanship of an MPC master who can make a super hot beat with a one-chord sample.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by skiroy

I cant make a fukkin song yet. I get to a certain point that it goes nowhere, and the problem is I dont know enough of how music works yet.

[smoke]

Originally Posted by skiroy

I cant make a fukkin song yet. I get to a certain point that it goes nowhere, and the problem is I dont know enough of how music works yet.

Maybe you should try to listen to more music. Take some time to just listen in a dark room and just enjoy.

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by ryst

Sorry homie,I cant be like you.I A NOOBIE. Remember how that was? I can chop shit fine but Im trying to PLAy and thats a whole nother world.

[PinnacleProdUK]

Originally Posted by The Dutch Master

Hip-Hop is usually loop-based so it's not very "hip-hop" to have an arrangement which uses a lot of chords or different chord-progressions.

Hahahaha... WTF!

If you want to sound like everybody else then yeah!

How many times does the same thing needed to be repeated!

THERE....ARE....NO....SET....RULES!

Be creative.. you could have ( and i do have) "hip hop" tracks that contain orchestral pieces therefore having plenty of chord's, chord changes etc... on the other hand i have tracks that are so simple that they have no more than a few chords!

again....THERE ARE NO SET RULES! it depends entirely on what you are trying to achieve.

This also applies to mixing and mastering! You add a boost at 12KHz if you need a boost at 12 KHz. You apply compression if you need to apply compression!

If you don't then then don't! YOU DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!

[smoke]

Originally Posted by skiroy

Sorry homie,I cant be like you.I A NOOBIE. Remember how that was? I can chop shit fine but Im trying to PLAy and thats a whole nother world.

You're trying to play, but do you have the sound in your head yet? I mean asking "how many chords" has nothing to do with playing. You either have an artistic vision or you don't.. If you had a master pianist at your side, what would you tell them to do? Ask them their opinion on how many chords you think you should have?

This is just my hobby, and this is a bad question even to me. Cmon man.

[qsblues]

Don't place too much emphasis on chords. The main thing to focus on is the hook, the beat itself, or the melody of the head.

The process of making music can be very frustrating. I've been working on two tracks for the past year, still trying to get them right. It's an evolution. I know that when I sit down to compose a tune, it's not going to be finished when I get up and go do something else. As I learn new techniques, I try it out if it fits within the tune.

Learning music theory should not get in the way of the creative process. It is there for guidelines. It definitely helps to learn theory in order to find out how music "works", but it's not meant to be a stumbling block. Take your time. Once you learn more about theory, you will find yourself having an "AH HA!" moment, and you'll be able to apply it.

I've gotten blasted so many times in this forum about the "theory vs. music" concept, I don't even know why I bother anymore. But if I have some knowledge that I can give out, so be it. I'm here to help.

Try this ...

When you hear different chords over a hip hop beat, they're usually not "different" chords, but rather inversions of the same chord.

Over a bass line that emphasizes a low "E", the chords usually stay in that tonality. For example:

E G B D

G B D E

B D E G

D E B G

Depending on if the tune is in a major or minor tonality, then the 3rd or 7th will be natural or sharp. If it's a dominant tonality, then the 3rd will be sharp, and the 7th will be natural.

But it really depends upon what type of feel you're going for. Rules are made to be broken. But don't let the rules stop you from playing what you feel or hear. Sooner or later, you'll find out how the changes relate to each other. Keep studying theory, but don't let theory stop you from making your music. The point is to have fun, and come up with something original. Just don't take the easy way out and sample something that will get you out of a corner.

Good luck.

Peace.

[camerondye]

Originally Posted by ryst

To an extent he's right though, you kind of answered you own question but I will answer it for you. Learn an instrument...learn music. Just learning about recording music is very 1-dimensional, throw 30 minutes a day to practicing piano or guitar or go take some lessons from somebody....please.

I believe that most people who are serious about the whole recording/producing thing come from a background of playing some kind of music and it's kind of frustrating to hear somebody complain about some of the basic music questions you are asking. I'm not saying it's a stupid question like somebody earlier did, but you obviously need to put more time in to playing music so you can get better at writing it. This is a biased opinion of a 17year musician though...
cam

EDIT: qsblues, he's asking about how many chords are supposed to be in a song so you might be overshooting a touch

[skiroy]

Originally Posted by qsblues

Don't place too much emphasis on chords. The main thing to focus on is the hook, the beat itself, or the melody of the head.

The process of making music can be very frustrating. I've been working on two tracks for the past year, still trying to get them right. It's an evolution. I know that when I sit down to compose a tune, it's not going to be finished when I get up and go do something else. As I learn new techniques, I try it out if it fits within the tune.

Learning music theory should not get in the way of the creative process. It is there for guidelines. It definitely helps to learn theory in order to find out how music "works", but it's not meant to be a stumbling block. Take your time. Once you learn more about theory, you will find yourself having an "AH HA!" moment, and you'll be able to apply it.

I've gotten blasted so many times in this forum about the "theory vs. music" concept, I don't even know why I bother anymore. But if I have some knowledge that I can give out, so be it. I'm here to help.

Try this ...

When you hear different chords over a hip hop beat, they're usually not "different" chords, but rather inversions of the same chord.

Over a bass line that emphasizes a low "E", the chords usually stay in that tonality. For example:

E G B D

G B D E

B D E G

D E B G

Depending on if the tune is in a major or minor tonality, then the 3rd or 7th will be natural or sharp. If it's a dominant tonality, then the 3rd will be sharp, and the 7th will be natural.

But it really depends upon what type of feel you're going for. Rules are made to be broken. But don't let the rules stop you from playing what you feel or hear. Sooner or later, you'll find out how the changes relate to each other. Keep studying theory, but don't let theory stop you from making your music. The point is to have fun, and come up with something original. Just don't take the easy way out and sample something that will get you out of a corner.

Good luck.

Peace.

AHH the gem,in the pile of shit. This is what I wait for. Thankx man.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

• Bad to the Bone by George Thorogood
• Bullet the Blue Sky by U2
• Catch a Falling Star as sung by Perry Cuomo
• Chain of Fools by Aretha Franklin
• Coconut by Harry Nillson
• Electric Avenue by Eddie Grant
• Exodus by Bob Marley
• Hey, Bo Diddley by Bo Diddley
• On the Road Again by Canned Heat
• Run Through the Jungle by Creedence Clearwater Revival
• Showbiz Kids by Steely Dan
• Tomorrow Never Knows* by The Beatles
• We Will Rock You by Queen

Above are some songs with only one chord. It's not about the chords, it's about the groove, the feel, the underlying beat, and especially, the melody. I wouldn't sweat counting chords. In fact, creating a song over a single chord is an excellent exercise within itself.

Catch a falling star has a bridge with three more chords in it.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by skiroy

I can chop shit fine but Im trying to PLAy and thats a whole nother world.

If you want to learn the technicalities of music, study music theory. It sound like the direction you want or are trying to go in.

If you want to write from your heart, just write.

A lot of people will probably disagree with me but that's the way I see it.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by PinnacleProdUK

Hahahaha... WTF!

If you want to sound like everybody else then yeah!

How many times does the same thing needed to be repeated!

THERE....ARE....NO....SET....RULES!

Be creative.. you could have ( and i do have) "hip hop" tracks that contain orchestral pieces therefore having plenty of chord's, chord changes etc... on the other hand i have tracks that are so simple that they have no more than a few chords!

again....THERE ARE NO SET RULES! it depends entirely on what you are trying to achieve.

This also applies to mixing and mastering! You add a boost at 12KHz if you need a boost at 12 KHz. You apply compression if you need to apply compression!

If you don't then then don't! YOU DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!

?
Dude, calm down. I said "loop-based".
IF you hadn't pulled that sentence out of its context, you would have noticed I started by saying "it depends", and finished with "there are exceptions".
I'm all down with "musical" hip-hop, but still, imo....it's the arrangement of the loops that make it hip-hop.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by ryst

If you want to learn the technicalities of music, study music theory. It sound like the direction you want or are trying to go in.

If you want to write from your heart, just write.

A lot of people will probably disagree with me but that's the way I see it.

thumbsupthumbsup

Some of the greatest songwriters of all time cant readmusic,but they really FEEL music and have great EARS.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Catch a falling star has a bridge with three more chords in it.

So does We Will Rock You. From the guitar solo to the end, there's like three chords repeated.

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

• Bad to the Bone by George Thorogood
• Bullet the Blue Sky by U2
• Catch a Falling Star as sung by Perry Cuomo
• Chain of Fools by Aretha Franklin
• Coconut by Harry Nillson
• Electric Avenue by Eddie Grant
• Exodus by Bob Marley
• Hey, Bo Diddley by Bo Diddley
• On the Road Again by Canned Heat
• Run Through the Jungle by Creedence Clearwater Revival
• Showbiz Kids by Steely Dan
• Tomorrow Never Knows* by The Beatles
• We Will Rock You by Queen

Above are some songs with only one chord. It's not about the chords, it's about the groove, the feel, the underlying beat, and especially, the melody. I wouldn't sweat counting chords. In fact, creating a song over a single chord is an excellent exercise within itself.

"Chain of Fools" has 3 chord changes in it also... When shes singing in the first verse, you can hear a rhodes in the back doing 3 chords.... VERY subtle, but you can hear them...

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

thumbsupthumbsup

Some of the greatest songwriters of all time cant readmusic,but they really FEEL music and have great EARS.

I'm one of those people...

[Methlab]

Skiroy, these questions ARE ridiculous and LAZY. Just sit there and play for months and months and figure it out like everyone else did. I am 30 and did not have message boards when I was learning to write music. So I sat my ass down and just listened to music and played along to it.

It does not happen overnight. So quit asking these questions...they are pure laziness man. How many chords in a beat? Are you serious? QUIT BEING LAZY!! The answers are right in front of you!!


EDIT : Nothing personal, but if I was a mod I would ban you for 6 months so you could just stop posting and relying on help. It would be the best musical favor you could get right now.

[nukmusic]

What rules?
the only rule I know is to "try your best to make it sound good" Sometimes your succeed, sometimes you won't. The more you try, the more you may succeed.

[Nahuel]

Originally Posted by skiroy

I cant make a fukkin song yet. I get to a certain point that it goes nowhere, and the problem is I dont know enough of how music works yet.

Hey skiroy keep learning scales and stuff.

But if you want to make music, especially hip hop, you got to be a fan first: listen to a lot of music n music styles (oldies, latest hits, everything), enjoy, find songs that you love, enjoy, know you taste in music, define "what's hot".

get inspired and then make your own.

Dont try to make a song jus for making a song. Get inspired.