Unofficial remixes with "official" quality -- the limiting stage

[coyotekells]

So you splice the instrumental into the song, and record your own vocals onto it.

You mix your vocals to sound like a perfect match with the existing vocals (from the original song).

Last step after the "mix" is mastering.

However, the song has already been mastered -- so you don't want to change anything.

What you do want to do is put a limiter on master bus so that the there's no limiting occurring during the original song, but when it hits your new parts, it limits them to bring the overall volume level at the same overall RMS as the original song.

Do you recommend I limit the vocal bus (without the inst) first, and then have another limiter on the master bus to just do the tiniest bit of trimming (in order to maintain the same volume of the original)?

Any tips?

I don't want the limiter to be affecting the song except where I've added vocals. Everything else shouldn't hit the threshold, and therefore be unchanged from the original master.

Thoughts?

I've bought the Sony Oxford Limiter, so that'll be my weapon.
I've done this before with good results, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to open the discussion in case there's some logic I've missed.

[jikky]

I put the limiter on the vocal bus to touch it a tad bit. Use the enhance slider on the vox bus. On the master bus put the limiter and set the output to .0008 to prevent overs. Input at 0. Leave the other sliders at default. On the master you're just preventing overs coming from the mix of the instrumental and vox bus. You're really just mixing the vocals so mix them as normal and send em to their own bus to be limited and use the master bus to prevent overs. Goodluck

[computa]

same answer as here

Limiting Causing Low-end Issues on Mixtape Tracks..

[coyotekells]

Originally Posted by jikkyboy11

I put the limiter on the vocal bus to touch it a tad bit. Use the enhance slider on the vox bus. On the master bus put the limiter and set the output to .0008 to prevent overs. Input at 0. Leave the other sliders at default. On the master you're just preventing overs coming from the mix of the instrumental and vox bus. You're really just mixing the vocals so mix them as normal and send em to their own bus to be limited and use the master bus to prevent overs. Goodluck

Thanks, but you missed an important point. I need to set the input until it's hitting the limiter during the original portions of the song, and then back off so it's not. Then when it hits my new vocals, it will limit those areas and the whole song will peak at .008

I was thinking more a long the lines of -- is there things I should consider doing differently in the attack/release section, since i'm essentially just squashing the vocals flat onto the already slammed instrumental.

[coyotekells]

Originally Posted by computa

same answer as here

Limiting Causing Low-end Issues on Mixtape Tracks..

I'll check out your settings next time I do this.. see how they treat me

As explained in my response to jikky, my logic is to bring the limiter so it's just about to hit the song, but no reduction.. then when my new vocals come, it will squash those parts to the same peak as the original song.. thus giving me the full amplitude of the original release (and no more!).

I don't have a problem with mud or things sounding squashed.

I just thought I'd post to see what the other opinions are on this, as I'm not a pro.

Btw, Sonnox really is working nicer than my previous limiter for this sort of thing!!

[jikky]

Originally Posted by coyotekells

Thanks, but you missed an important point. I need to set the input until it's hitting the limiter during the original portions of the song, and then back off so it's not. Then when it hits my new vocals, it will limit those areas and the whole song will peak at .008

I was thinking more a long the lines of -- is there things I should consider doing differently in the attack/release section, since i'm essentially just squashing the vocals flat onto the already slammed instrumental.

I see where your going. The enhance slider has features of the sonnox inflator which increases the percieved volume. My process is to add my URS CSP on the inserts to comp there. Send it to the vocal group and use the enhance on the sonnox limiter or actually use the sonnox inflator to bring up the volume, but yea I guess I got that all wrong. Limit the vocal bus and not the master so u dont squash the track with the vocals since the instrumental track is already squashed.

[coyotekells]

Originally Posted by jikkyboy11

I see where your going. The enhance slider has features of the sonnox inflator which increases the percieved volume. My process is to add my URS CSP on the inserts to comp there. Send it to the vocal group and use the enhance on the sonnox limiter or actually use the sonnox inflator to bring up the volume, but yea I guess I got that all wrong. Limit the vocal bus and not the master so u dont squash the track with the vocals since the instrumental track is already squashed.

If you play the instrumental track and bring it so it's hitting -0.1 or so on the master, then the limiter isn't hitting the instrumental at all (if you're using Sonnox, then technically, it is still affecting the instrumental if you have Safe Mode engaged or if you're using Enhance). As soon as your vocals come on, the limiter will start gain reduction, probably hitting anywhere from 1 - 3db.

Btw, I know the manual says that, but the Enhance section in the Limiter is NOT at all the same as the Inflator.
There has been a lot of discussion about these plugs on GS, and the original author is really annoyed about this error in the manual because he's had to clarify so many times. They are NOT the same. Just thought I'd let you know, cause I was happy to learn the truth about that (even tho the details are hard for someone like me to decipher)

[coyotekells]

Of course, it's all speculation, but:

Listening to this remix, what do you suspect makes the greatest impact on the difference in our vocal mix (including aspects like room and mic proximity)? Or do you think it's the mix of the vocals (including the fact mine are added to the already limited instrumental, rather than mixed as "part of the song").

Paula DeAnda - Easy (Feat. Lil' Wayne & St. Kelly) - zshare.net

Wayne was no doubt recorded in a good room, through some typical pop chain like 800g -> CL1B -> 1073.

Mine was $200 mic -> Pacifica (with no hardware comp). So there's some short comings there, and the room is much less than desirable :/
Is that the bigger of my problems, or is it the mixing stage that requires the more immediate improvement?

Thanks for the critique/suggestions...

[Nahuel]

Why bother? It's jus mixtape stuff... you'll never be able to make your vocals sound like the original artist for a lot of obvious reasons. Btw Jikky technique aint that bad: the limiter on the 2buss can kinda glue your vocals with the original track.

[coyotekells]

Originally Posted by lpuma

Why bother? It's jus mixtape stuff... you'll never be able to make your vocals sound like the original artist for a lot of obvious reasons. Btw Jikky technique aint that bad: the limiter on the 2buss can kinda glue your vocals with the original track.

Thanks. Btw, the limiter on the 2 buss is an obvious move.. that's why that "technique" is outlined in the original post

[jikky]

Here's a screenshot of what you could possibly make it look like. I have inflator on the vocal bus and the limiter on the master bus. And the input on the limiter is at 0. So basically on the 2bus I'm only catching the peaks. No real limiting but I did use the enhance function and that did something I liked.