To Dither Or Not To Dither? That Is "My" Question

[rallycapmusic]

Yes, no? And if so, why?
And what if my software doesn't have a dithering option?

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by rallycapmusic

Yes, no?

Yes.

Originally Posted by rallycapmusic

And if so, why?

Please use the search engine (either here on GS or on the internets)

Originally Posted by rallycapmusic

And what if my software doesn't have a dithering option?

It does.

[rallycapmusic]

All good! Got it, thanks!

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by rallycapmusic

Yes, no? And if so, why?
And what if my software doesn't have a dithering option?

Dithering basically converts your stereo mixdown to a 16 bit format for the purpose of creating a cd.

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

It does.

mine does not

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by xabiton

mine does not

Sonar doesn't?

I find that hard to believe.

EDIT: Just to be clear, in another post, the OP said he uses PT.

[irthwirm]

would you dither if you were going from 32 to 24? Just wondering.

And how is pro tools dithering compared to 3rd party converters???

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Sonar doesn't?

I find that hard to believe.

EDIT: Just to be clear, in another post, the OP said he uses PT.

sonar home studio 4 does not. i have never taken the time to buy the full version of sonar

[KevWest]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

would you dither if you were going from 32 to 24? Just wondering.

And how is pro tools dithering compared to 3rd party converters???

why go from 32 to 24 instead of 32 to 16

[hobson]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Dithering basically converts your stereo mixdown to a 16 bit format for the purpose of creating a cd.

oversimplified - but a "sample rate converter" converts your stereo mixdown to 16 bit (CD) - dithering smooths out the low level truncation distortion that occurs when losing those 8 bits of info via conversion.

as i understand it.




.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by hobson

oversimplified - but a "sample rate converter" converts your stereo mixdown to 16 bit (CD) - dithering smooths out the low level truncation distortion that occurs when losing those 8 bits of info via conversion.

Sample rate conversions effect sample rate, for example: converting a 48KHz recording to 44.1KHz.

Dither adds low level noise to keep the last couple bits "moving" (toggling between 1 and 0) which, as you mentioned, helps eliminate low-level distortion.

[irthwirm]

Originally Posted by xabiton

why go from 32 to 24 instead of 32 to 16

some daw's record in 32. Weird thing about FL is that it's does 16 and 32 but not 24. It can play and export as 24 but not record to it.

Anyone care to answer the PT's question about it's dithering??? How does it compare to other 3rd party converters?
This goes both ways too as far as up converting from 16 to 24 in PT?

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

Anyone care to answer the PT's question about it's dithering??? How does it compare to other 3rd party converters?

For most of us, dither is dither. Some of the Golden-Ear-type MEs I've worked with have their preferences, but I've never taken the time to do a dither shoot-out (yaaawwnnn! Count me out).

Years ago, a mentor told me to use POW-r dither, so I do. He even told me which types to use for which styles of music, but I've since forgotten. I know I've seen a Bob Katz (at least, I'm pretty sure it's Bob Katz) article about it on the innerwebs, though, if you're curious.

Anyway, I'm sure any other dither program would be fine for my purposes - since I only use it to make reference mixes, not final masters - provided I don't hear it (the Waves one is the only one I've ever been able to consistently hear, BTW). In other words, I wouldn't stress about it too much.

EDIT: One more thing - I don't think it's quite right to think of dither as a "convertor", like you mentioned above. All dither is is noise.

[irthwirm]

yeah true but what i ment was "converting" one bit rate to another. But it did sound like it was some kinda of a/d d/a type of rhetoric.

[hobson]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Sample rate conversions effect sample rate, for example: converting a 48KHz recording to 44.1KHz.

thanks bgrotto - i should generally put my brain to rest after midnight or else risk offering up phunky logic...

SRC (of course) - is sample rate conversion - bit depth is something different - and dithering is specific to bit rate reductions.

i do like the "keep the bits moving" description though.

peace.


.

[irthwirm]

so how does up bit "converting" effect the sound. 16--->24
is it like recording a 16 bit sound (mpc in some cases)? I'm assuming it's not.

[rickrock305]

yes, i use dither when bouncing something to 16 bit from 24. i also check "apply dither" to fades. this is a feature in pro tools, dunno about other DAWs.

[E-Irizarry]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Dithering basically converts your stereo mixdown to a 16 bit format for the purpose of creating a cd.

Originally Posted by hobson

oversimplified - but a "sample rate converter" converts your stereo mixdown to 16 bit (CD) - dithering smooths out the low level truncation distortion that occurs when losing those 8 bits of info via conversion.

as i understand it.




.

Correctomundo! Yeah, that "distortion" adds a low nivel of noise to make it sound professional. Dithering can make a clear sounding demo sound like a CD finished product after 4 band linear phase leveling and dithering.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by E-Irizarry

Correctomundo! Yeah, that "distortion" adds a low nivel of noise to make it sound professional. Dithering can make a clear sounding demo sound like a CD finished product after 4 band linear phase leveling and dithering.

This is a joke post, right?

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

so how does up bit "converting" effect the sound. 16--->24
.

Simple: It doesn't.

The original 16-bit files are still only using 16 bits; by converting them you're basically stacking another 8 unused bits on top.

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

This is a joke post, right?

don't think so...look at his links in his signature.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

don't think so...look at his links in his signature.

particularly his favorite youtube videos... jesus.

[irthwirm]

does it give you more flexibility while processing in a 24 88.2 poject or not really considering the original is 16 44.1. So does that extra info allow you to push plugs harder without artifacts per say?

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

does it give you more flexibility while processing in a 24 88.2 poject or not really considering the original is 16 44.1. So does that extra info allow you to push plugs harder without artifacts per say?

no, and no.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

does it give you more flexibility while processing in a 24 88.2 poject or not really considering the original is 16 44.1. So does that extra info allow you to push plugs harder without artifacts per say?

The plugins themselves will sound better at higher sampling rates (they operate at whatever bit depth they're designed to operate at, regardless of the audio you're inputting), but you can't push them any harder. That's about it.

[Switchcraft]

A friend of mine was trying a few different types of dither on his project and G Massenburg walked in and asked "Why are you adding noise to your mix?" Now, I know the scientific answer to that, but that doesn't compel me to say the answer is always to use it... or not.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Switchcraft

A friend of mine was trying a few different types of dither on his project and G Massenburg walked in and asked "Why are you adding noise to your mix?" Now, I know the scientific answer to that, but that doesn't compel me to say the answer is always to use it... or not.

Yeah, there is definitely an argument to be made against the use of dither. Do some research if you're interested (but beware: it's a really, REALLY deep topic, and you'll need to be extremely brushed-up on your digital audio theory!!). Each side makes valid points, but for most purposes, using dither makes the most sense.

[AON]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

particularly his favorite youtube videos... jesus.

And his alter egos beatmaking vids....

[bgrotto]

BTW - there's a cool discussion going on in the mastering forum about this topic:

Dithering to 24 bits for mastering?

There are a lotta people over there with a lot more experience, so you may wanna re-locate you attention to that thread.

[rallycapmusic]

So am i putting the dither plugin on the master fader when the project is in the multitrack stage?