I mixed a punk rock EP this weekend.

[bgrotto]

I've mixed nothing but hip hop for the past month or two, and so (not surprisingly) on this punk rock thingy I just wrapped up the bottom end is HUUUGE. Nice!

It's kinda neat the way one style informs another. I think Ken Lewis has the right idea in keeping things diverse.

Anyway, that's all. Just wanted to share.

[Stitch333]

nice!

[ryst]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

I've mixed nothing but hip hop for the past month or two, and so (not surprisingly) on this punk rock thingy I just wrapped up the bottom end is HUUUGE. Nice!

It's kinda neat the way one style informs another. I think Ken Lewis has the right idea in keeping things diverse.

Anyway, that's all. Just wanted to share.

I agree. My rock mixes seem to get more kick, snare and bass than they used to before I started mixing hip hop.

We have a singer/songwriter from Nashville coming down to do about 5 songs.....I hope she likes 808's.....

BTW. Benny, I got your message but I have been slammed. Glad you got the package. I will call you tomorrow.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by ryst

I agree. My rock mixes seem to get more kick, snare and bass than they used to before I started mixing hip hop.

We have a singer/songwriter from Nashville coming down to do about 5 songs.....I hope she likes 808's.....

BTW. Benny, I got your message but I have been slammed. Glad you got the package. I will call you tomorrow.

Heh...I sent the mixes to the band this morning, and the first sentence from the first response from them was "Holy crap the bottom end is huuuge!".

Awesome.

Another interesting side-effect of mixing all this hip hop is my decreasing reliance on reverb. I just keep mixing drier and drier, or with more delays and less reverbs. And I'm finding more ways to crank the vocals up louder without detaching them from the mix. I wonder what other sorts of adjustments I'm making...?

In any event, it's a very interesting study. My schedule for the next two months is pretty much all rock...October is a grungy, hard-rock thing, and November is a super-slick power pop/punk thing. And of course the usual Aerosmith gig...in other words, not a lotta hip hop. I may hafta re-think some of my drum micing techniques to exploit some of these new aesthetics I'm finding myself leaning towards.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Heh...I sent the mixes to the band this morning, and the first sentence from the first response from them was "Holy crap the bottom end is huuuge!".

Awesome.

Another interesting side-effect of mixing all this hip hop is my decreasing reliance on reverb. I just keep mixing drier and drier, or with more delays and less reverbs. And I'm finding more ways to crank the vocals up louder without detaching them from the mix. I wonder what other sorts of adjustments I'm making...?

Nice.

I agree about the delay vs reverb too. I like delays way more than reverb. I rarely use reverb anymore. If I do use it, it's natural room verb from the drum mics. I get all my early reflections from delays. Although EMT Plate verb in Altiverb still is king and gets used on the softer rock stuff.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by ryst

Nice.

I agree about the delay vs reverb too. I like delays way more than reverb. I rarely use reverb anymore. If I do use it, it's natural room verb from the drum mics. I get all my early reflections from delays. Although EMT Plate verb in Altiverb still is king and gets used on the softer rock stuff.

Right on...although I still can't tear myself away from my trusty PCM60 for snare ambience (didn't use it on this particularly mix, though; I had lotsa room mics to choose from).

Funny thing is, I started to use those PCM 60s on rap stuff, too, though. I guess my worlds really are colliding.

I haven't started using RBass or somesuch on my rock mixes yet, though (although it's not really out of the question)...

[ryst]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Right on...although I still can't tear myself away from my trusty PCM60 for snare ambience (didn't use it on this particularly mix, though; I had lotsa room mics to choose from).

Funny thing is, I started to use those PCM 60s on rap stuff, too, though. I guess my worlds really are colliding.

I haven't started using RBass or somesuch on my rock mixes yet, though (although it's not really out of the question)...

I have yet to find a good artificial reverb I like for rock snare. If all i have is the basic mics to mix with no room mic, I will use the SSD room samples and tune them to the snare. It works really well 99% of the time. Maybe I should check out that PCM 60. Actually, can you email me a track that you used the PCM 60(snare) on? I would like to hear it in a mix if possible.

I do wish there were more 808's in rock. Cephalic Carnage used them a lot. So did Canderia. And even a lot of John Feldman's mixes have them. But I haven't heard much lately...... although they will be sprinkled a little bit throughout my rock EP. Does your band use them at all?

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by ryst

I have yet to find a good artificial reverb I like for rock snare. If all i have is the basic mics to mix with no room mic, I will use the SSD room samples and tune them to the snare. It works really well 99% of the time. Maybe I should check out that PCM 60. Actually, can you email me a track that you used the PCM 60(snare) on? I would like to hear it in a mix if possible.

I do wish there were more 808's in rock. Cephalic Carnage used them a lot. So did Canderia. And even a lot of John Feldman's mixes have them. But I haven't heard much lately...... although they will be sprinkled a little bit throughout my rock EP. Does your band use them at all?

There was a trend to use 808s in a lotta grind core (such as Cephalic Carnage). After that, a lotta newer-school hardcore bands started getting into them, too. As for those Candiria records, yeah, the bottom end of "300% Density" is pretty huge. That's a great example of a mix where you can really hear the hip hop influence.

As for the PCM 60 stuff, yeah, I'll send you some stuff. I love that box because it's EXTREMELY limited in its flexibility, which means it either works or it doesn't. It's not like patching in the ol' 480 and ****ing around for 20 minutes trying to get that Medium Ambience preset to work when it just ain't the right setting. With the PCM 60, you plug it in, and it either rocks, or it sucks. Job done.

Anyway, it's great for giving you that "stereo snare" vibe, without necessarily making a wet, verb-y snare. I'll email you something soon (do I have your email? PM me with that...). I gotta couple cool examples, one that just got mastered and sounds GREAT (thanks Jeff Lipton at Peerless!).

[Storyville]

Artificial reverb on snares sounds like 1984. I went the other direction. I've been doing this acoustic rock project thing - now I'm using more reverb, less low end, and focusing on interesting textures up in the high mids. Definitely using less compression - sometimes, my God, I'm not even using a compressor. I used MaxxBass on vocals recently. Don't know where I pulled that from, but it worked really well.

Here's one, I mixed acapella singing and beatboxing. Then went back to another session with a singer who was kind of not singing and was able to eq her voice to sound more like it was singing - and that was on a two-track wav file. I feel pretty proud of myself.

Has anybody done so much mixing in two weeks they've actually started losing it a bit? I think that's happening. I'm not even sure my post has anything to do with the original subject anymore....

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Storyville

Artificial reverb on snares sounds like 1984. I went the other direction. I've been doing this acoustic rock project thing - now I'm using more reverb, less low end, and focusing on interesting textures up in the high mids. Definitely using less compression - sometimes, my God, I'm not even using a compressor. I used MaxxBass on vocals recently. Don't know where I pulled that from, but it worked really well.

Here's one, I mixed acapella singing and beatboxing. Then went back to another session with a singer who was kind of not singing and was able to eq her voice to sound more like it was singing - and that was on a two-track wav file. I feel pretty proud of myself.

Has anybody done so much mixing in two weeks they've actually started losing it a bit? I think that's happening. I'm not even sure my post has anything to do with the original subject anymore....

Artificial reverb does not have to sound like 1984. Using early reflections, ambience settings, or even a (gasp!) plate can add sustain and body without dating your record. Just, uh...don't gate that shit.

Anyway, yeah, too much mixing can really make you lose perspective. For me, it generally takes more than two weeks, but I hear ya. The best way to maintain perspective (IME) is to mix different styles. Mix hip hop for a minute, then rock. Etc, etc.

[H-Rezz]

I do both as well , it's amazing what one style brings to the other in terms of sonics and how it can open up new avenues .....

This also happens from a production perspective as well, especially when organizing Rock backing vocals , most Rockers have their bag of standard parts but as an RnB producer(as well) the suggestions i make are very interesting for the Rockers , they just don't think that way .....

Great thread btw ......

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by H-Rezz

I do both as well , it's amazing what one style brings to the other in terms of sonics and how it can open up new avenues .....

This also happens from a production perspective as well, especially when organizing Rock backing vocals , most Rockers have their bag of standard parts but as an RnB producer(as well) the suggestions i make are very interesting for the Rockers , they just don't think that way .....

Great thread btw ......

This particular record had no (as in, ZERO) backing vox. If we'd of had time, I woulda thrown in some harmonies for sure, but the budget is the budget, so no dice. The harmony ideas do get pretty zany, though, when you're used to working with R&B cats.

[tonymission]

What exactly does "punk rock" even sound like nowadays? I grew up on a healthy dose of NWA and Corruption of Conformity so my interests are all over the place.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

This particular record had no (as in, ZERO) backing vox. If we'd of had time, I woulda thrown in some harmonies for sure, but the budget is the budget, so no dice. The harmony ideas do get pretty zany, though, when you're used to working with R&B cats.

Did you find yourself using small reflection rooms after moving to punk from hip hop to create ambience around certain elements ? i often find this is what happens to me , i also find i start using more psuedo-stereo effects especially on single line gtrs that were recorded with a couple mics and summed to one track ....

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by tonymission

What exactly does "punk rock" even sound like nowadays? I grew up on a healthy dose of NWA and Corruption of Conformity so my interests are all over the place.

I've stopped thinking what's what in terms of where they would be placed in a record rack in a store , no matter the style i ask myself a basic question 'Does It Speak To Me', if it does i take it on board and archive it in my brain .........

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by tonymission

What exactly does "punk rock" even sound like nowadays? I grew up on a healthy dose of NWA and Corruption of Conformity so my interests are all over the place.

Man...that's a good question. This particular band has a sort of NOFX-meets-Uncle Tupelo vibe (weird, huh?), with a girl singer. Fast and kinda twangy. One guitar player is from Scissorfight; he provides the twang. The drummer played with the Queers and some other bands of that ilk (Mr. T experience, I think?), so that sorta sums up their style, assuming you're familiar with that stuff.

Anyway, "punk" is such a broadly-used term now, I just sorta call a band punk if the band themselves call it punk. I've given up on my (self-)righteous crusade to belabor the point of the "true" meaning of punk. I'm getting too old to give a damn.

Originally Posted by H-Rezz

I've stopped thinking what's what in terms of where they would be placed in a record rack in a store , no matter the style i ask myself a basic question 'Does It Speak To Me', if it does i take it on board and archive it in my brain .........

Originally Posted by H-Rezz

Did you find yourself using small reflection rooms after moving to punk from hip hop to create ambience around certain elements ? i often find this is what happens to me , i also find i start using more psuedo-stereo effects especially on single line gtrs that were recorded with a couple mics and summed to one track ....

Definitely with ya on the ambience/small room/early reflections thing.

I haven't gotten into too much of the psuedo-stereo effects in rock music (though I use them all the time in hip hop mixes), probably because I mostly mix records I've tracked and/or produced, and have simply doubled any part I thought might need a double or stereo interest. Occasionally I'll use that sorta stuff on vocals, though, especially harmonies. It sorta helps smear them and sink them into the mix.

[Methlab]

There is an 808 drop in the Shinedown single "Devour". A lot of metal records use the drop now and then.

[sevendaysoff]

bgrotto , rap/hiphop/pop has also steered me away from reverb (as much as possible).

I came up recording punk, rock, ska, etc. Used to use too much reverb, finally found the sweet spot though.

After working in rap/pop for the majority of the last 3 years i am finding that delay helps to keep the space of elements as where reverb kind of pulls everything in together and creates its own space. basically my mixes sound much bigger using multiple delays over a reverb bus.

i still use a touch of reverb here and there though. plate 140 mostly (emu). unless im going for some kind of fx.

[Storyville]

Yeah, I should switch back and forth between projects more frequently. I sort of fixate on one thing at one time which isn't good for my ear, especially after hour nine at the desk.

Definition in sonic terms is always an interesting question to ask. It's ambiguous - what makes something "punk rock?" or "hip hop" for that matter.

I use Delay and Reverb in equal amounts. I find that sometimes the use of Delay creates confused ambiance and clutters the track, even when used delicately. Sometimes I find that reverb is just over powering and sounds out of place. My thing as of late has been to use reverb on main instruments/vocals/backups in proportion to how far they are back in the stereo field. For main vocals which are right up front, just a drop. For back up vocals, a little bit more. I also find that delays work better on tracks that come in with losts of space between sounds. Backup vocals usually come in once every measure or two, so delay works for me there. Sometimes I'll delay one particular drum hit, like the snare on the 4 beat.

I think I only used delay on the main vocal as ambiance once on the last four tracks I worked on (all of which were the same artist).