How to Master?

[smccarthy945]

Guys, I am using Ableton and record my tracks and use mainly VSTS to create the tracks. When I am done, the track is very clear and I then try to get all the tracks even and render them out of Ableton as even and loud as possible without clipping.

I then take the WAV and bring it into Sound Forge and then apply Waves L2 CD Rendering pre setting to get the track as loud as possible. This method works OK but doesn't sound as good as I want it to.

Can I do anything else to bring the track out? I know some people run them through maximizers and is there a VST or method that is similar to a maximizer?

I am missing something here and I just don't know what to do to get it louder and have more impact.

[DSD_Mastering]

How do you mix?

A: Use your ears...


Regards,

[DROPKICK]

There is really no simple solution!!! I would say take it to a mastering engineer just one time and you would learn alot!!!

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

Guys, I am using Ableton and record my tracks and use mainly VSTS to create the tracks. When I am done, the track is very clear and I then try to get all the tracks even and render them out of Ableton as even and loud as possible without clipping.

I then take the WAV and bring it into Sound Forge and then apply Waves L2 CD Rendering pre setting to get the track as loud as possible. This method works OK but doesn't sound as good as I want it to.

Can I do anything else to bring the track out? I know some people run them through maximizers and is there a VST or method that is similar to a maximizer?

I am missing something here and I just don't know what to do to get it louder and have more impact.

Get a pro to master your stuff...done deal.

[smccarthy945]

I will have to do my best. I can't afford an engineer and I am just trying to put out the best quality I can on my own.

[Traxx]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

Guys, I am using Ableton and record my tracks and use mainly VSTS to create the tracks. When I am done, the track is very clear and I then try to get all the tracks even and render them out of Ableton as even and loud as possible without clipping.

I then take the WAV and bring it into Sound Forge and then apply Waves L2 CD Rendering pre setting to get the track as loud as possible. This method works OK but doesn't sound as good as I want it to.

Can I do anything else to bring the track out? I know some people run them through maximizers and is there a VST or method that is similar to a maximizer?

I am missing something here and I just don't know what to do to get it louder and have more impact.

Honestly you shouldn't master your own music...First rule of thumb, and if you think just making the track sound louder is mastering then you clearly have no clue what the craft entitles. And limiting your music to death and pushing the gain up is a sure fire way to destroy the dynamics of your song. Your question is simple yet complicated. If you are like most indie artist that have the D.I.Y mentality i would recommend just buy a plugin like ozone. That will "enhance" your music if you know what you are doing with eq and compression. But to truely get the sound you are looking for requires, (A) a good mix and recording from the start (B) a combination of good analog hardware and good digital plugins and (C) The experience of knowing what you are doing. Not to mention an accurate listening environment with a very good monitoring system. I do master myself and i'm not trying to advertise myself i'm just tryin to offer you some help to achieve your goals. Pm me if you are interested my rates are very affordable. If you insist on doing it yourself, I would recommend the steps i mentioned. Good luck...

[Traxx]

Btw...you can acquire a lot of information on mastering in the mastering forum, its a good tool and I would use that instead of the hip hop forum...

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

Can I do anything else to bring the track out?

I am missing something here and I just don't know what to do to get it louder and have more impact.

There's two ways to guarantee a great-sounding (clear, loud, punchy, etc) track:

1. Hire a great mixing engineer.

2. Hire a great mastering engineer.

Problem solved.

[smoke]

Well, I don't use the word Master per se (and I aint no pro so you can ignore if you want) but to get my songs loud, I do this.

-have a good dynamic mix, with all frequencies represented and no frequencies dominating.

-open audio in a new Cubase Project and create a chain of:

Compressor for 2 db GR, and 1-2 db extra make-up gain.
EQ to make up for any lows loss from compression or overall sweetener*
Tube Saturation with 1-2 db gain*
Color EQ of choice with 1-2 db gain*
Maximizer (musical harmonic distortion) very subtle effect + 1db gain*
Limiter to reduce any stray peaks, usually 1-2 GR. Gain if needed.
*optional

-I cross check this between 3 sources (headphones, mains, and cheap computer speakers) and a pro ref.

-It doesn't work if the mix isn't done properly, but since you are working on your own stuff, you can alays go back. Don't try to fix anything in this "loudness processing stage" Just close it and open up the original mix and keep refining.

-When you're done, take it to the car, the iPod, the CD, etc.... rinse and repeat until it stands up with your reference.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Get a pro to master your stuff...done deal.

whootwhoot +1

[E-Irizarry]

Or do what I did and spend three years learning the hard way how to get a decent master through self-instruction and trial-and-error.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by smccarthy945

I will have to do my best. I can't afford an engineer and I am just trying to put out the best quality I can on my own.

Why not just focus on what you do (producer/rapper I presume correct me if Im wrong)- and get the point where you can afford an engineer. Its pointless messing around with plug-ins you dont know how to use.

To get a nice loud mix which I am assuming you are trying to acheive is not easy and is a job for a professional engineer.

[dcwave]

So here is a question for you self-mastering guys...

If I am reading correctly you mix the song in one application then export it to a stereo file, load it into a new application like Sound Forge and then proceed to EQ, compress and limit it too.

Why?!?

It's the same room, the same speakers; why not do the EQ, compression and limiting while mixing it? It seems like you are making unnessesary work for yourself and doing things that should be addressed in the mix anyway.

I can understand using something like WaveLab to assemble a redbook CD and making very minor eq or level changes to create a cohesive sonic signature across the whole collection of songs.

[smoke]

Originally Posted by dcwave

Why?!?

It's the same room, the same speakers; why not do the EQ, compression and limiting while mixing it? It seems like you are making unnessesary work for yourself and doing things that should be addressed in the mix anyway.

Personally, I do it for psychological separation from mixing to "mastering", lets call it "loudness processing". I don't like the idea of doing all that at the same time. When mixing, I want to focus only on the mix and the beat.

Then I usually take a few days to a week between processes.

(oh, I should mention.... plug-in loads too, no more memory to load my UAD set-up )

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by E-Irizarry

Or do what I did and spend three years learning the hard way how to get a decent master through self-instruction and trial-and-error.

Wow...only took ya three years huh?

The MEs I use have spent their lives learning the craft.

[Traxx]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

There's two ways to guarantee a great-sounding (clear, loud, punchy, etc) track:

1. Hire a great mixing engineer.

2. Hire a great mastering engineer.

Problem solved.

Thats still not a "gauranteed" way to achieve that sound, if it does not sound good from the start no engineer can change that....and as for picking up on a craft quickly..why is it that theres children of 6 yrs of age that can play keys or guitar like a pro thats been doing it for yrs but its not possible for someone to pick up on a craft like mixing and mastering in a short time as well? I agree that for the most part, most crafts do require a good amount of experience but its not far fetched that a person can become a "pro" in 3yrs..Besides who decides who's a pro? A professional is anyone who is being paid to do something, that does not mean they are good at what they do...

[phillysoulman]

I had some bozo ask me if we "masterize"
I should have asked him if he "beaterized"

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Traxx

Thats still not a "gauranteed" way to achieve that sound, if it does not sound good from the start no engineer can change that....and as for picking up on a craft quickly..why is it that theres children of 6 yrs of age that can play keys or guitar like a pro thats been doing it for yrs but its not possible for someone to pick up on a craft like mixing and mastering in a short time as well? I agree that for the most part, most crafts do require a good amount of experience but its not far fetched that a person can become a "pro" in 3yrs..Besides who decides who's a pro? A professional is anyone who is being paid to do something, that does not mean they are good at what they do...

First off, yes, a great mix engineer CAN polish a turd into something listenable, or something even pretty damn good. Hell, even a pretty damn good one can do it; in fact, I do it all the time. It's not gonna be the record of the century, and it may not win any Grammys, but the thing is gonna bang. It can often be as easy as supplementing the existing drums, or replaying/layering a part with a better sound (this happens all the time, although it's not often advertised, as I'm sure you can imagine). We can and will do things to mediocre tracks that would blow your mind (and freak out the egomaniac in you..all of us musicians have one, so don't take it personal). And there are scores of dudes out there doing shit that blows my mind (and work!!) away, too. In other words, there are many levels of kicking ass, and the best of the best will churn out a great mix whether the source tracks sucked or not. It just may drift a little bit from the beatmaker's original vision.

As for prodigy mixers, yes, they're out there too. The thing is, learning to mix requires a degree of technical study; it's not just "sit down at a desk and get to work". Not to mention there aren't a lotta six year olds that get access to that kind of equipment. It's one thing to let a kid play with your old $100 beater acoustic guitar, or the family piano. But do you really wanna let a child **** around with a half-million dollar room, or even your $1000 PT rig? Probably not...

Your question about who's a pro is a good one, especially around these parts. A lotta folks begin working professionally in under three years, but worked for years before that as hobbyists or day-dreamers. Those people, in my opinion, are pros as long as they've got a consistent clientele and are making money, while providing a consistently high level of workmanship (this last part, of course, is highly subjective, but if the clients are happy then the level of workmanship is good, IMO). You may not think someone's work is good, and I may not think it is either, but if their clients are happy, who gives a ****? Any petty critiques or bitching comes across as jealousy, and is, if you ask me, highly unprofessional.

Anyway, that's my long-winded rant for the day. I gotta get to work. I've gotta turd to polish.

[Gbrown]

Can anyone give a generalized breakdown of said "Mastering" Fees for say a 12 track cd ?

Are we looking at $200-$500 a track? more or less? or set to 'ludicrous speed' more?

since there has been some mention of sending your work to a professional in this thread. I'm definitely interested in the information.

If there was already a post about this I apologize in advance before I get mowed down.

[Reborn]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

I had some bozo ask me if we "masterize"
I should have asked him if he "beaterized"

Damn you havebeen doing this too long. You have no tolerence for anyone that knows less than you. Surely this is part of the reason so many people have very much to learn. So many people looking down on there lack of knowlege and often misinformation. The way to save a dying guild like professional musicians writers and producers is not by talking about how bad it is. Or how great it used to be. Lighten up Philly. Maybe read over your posts for the last couple of months and realize you notice far more wrong with anything than anything positive!

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Reborn

Damn you havebeen doing this too long. You have no tolerence for anyone that knows less than you. Surely this is part of the reason so many people have very much to learn. So many people looking down on there lack of knowlege and often misinformation. The way to save a dying guild like professional musicians writers and producers is not by talking about how bad it is. Or how great it used to be. Lighten up Philly. Maybe read over your posts for the last couple of months and realize you notice far more wrong with anything than anything positive!

Since you mention learning, then maybe you need to LEARN how not to be so defensive.

[Traxx]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

First off, yes, a great mix engineer CAN polish a turd into something listenable, or something even pretty damn good. Hell, even a pretty damn good one can do it; in fact, I do it all the time. It's not gonna be the record of the century, and it may not win any Grammys, but the thing is gonna bang. It can often be as easy as supplementing the existing drums, or replaying/layering a part with a better sound (this happens all the time, although it's not often advertised, as I'm sure you can imagine). We can and will do things to mediocre tracks that would blow your mind (and freak out the egomaniac in you..all of us musicians have one, so don't take it personal). And there are scores of dudes out there doing shit that blows my mind (and work!!) away, too. In other words, there are many levels of kicking ass, and the best of the best will churn out a great mix whether the source tracks sucked or not. It just may drift a little bit from the beatmaker's original vision.

As for prodigy mixers, yes, they're out there too. The thing is, learning to mix requires a degree of technical study; it's not just "sit down at a desk and get to work". Not to mention there aren't a lotta six year olds that get access to that kind of equipment. It's one thing to let a kid play with your old $100 beater acoustic guitar, or the family piano. But do you really wanna let a child **** around with a half-million dollar room, or even your $1000 PT rig? Probably not...

Your question about who's a pro is a good one, especially around these parts. A lotta folks begin working professionally in under three years, but worked for years before that as hobbyists or day-dreamers. Those people, in my opinion, are pros as long as they've got a consistent clientele and are making money, while providing a consistently high level of workmanship (this last part, of course, is highly subjective, but if the clients are happy then the level of workmanship is good, IMO). You may not think someone's work is good, and I may not think it is either, but if their clients are happy, who gives a ****? Any petty critiques or bitching comes across as jealousy, and is, if you ask me, highly unprofessional.

Anyway, that's my long-winded rant for the day. I gotta get to work. I've gotta turd to polish.

I wasn't sayin to let a six yr old master i was just using that as an example on top of that i rather not polish a turd takes way too much time for what its worth but to each his own we all have our views...anyways take it easy didn't mean to offend you...

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Traxx

I wasn't sayin to let a six yr old master i was just using that as an example on top of that i rather not polish a turd takes way too much time for what its worth but to each his own we all have our views...anyways take it easy didn't mean to offend you...

No offense was taken, my man. Sorry if my rant came off otherwise.

[Reborn]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Since you mention learning, then maybe you need to LEARN how not to be so defensive.

Always here to learn my man. I didn't mean to communicate any defense. I don't know what I would be defending. I can say in retrospect, what I said could have been much better communicated by PM.



Jazztone

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

I had some bozo ask me if we "masterize"
I should have asked him if he "beaterized"

Lol, seriously, you have too much wack cats running through your space B.