EQ Is your best friend!

[optikstrange]

Ive been studying EQ's for the past month or so and i cant believe it took me this long to finally figure it out.I was always compressing everything hoping it would fix my problem and i would only Eq vocals a little bit but not my beats.So after learning some basics i was able to take out unwanted freqs and make my drums more punchier and open.I was also able to take out low end of a sample to make room for bass and drums.I was always wondering why my MPC 1000 beats didnt sound the way i wanted them CAUSE THERE NOT EQ'ED.I think im gonna start doin a little eq before my samples hit the MPC and then add or remove later EQ in pro tools.Correct me if im wrong but once u take out all your unwated freqs u will be able to make the overall mix louder right?? i forgot where i heard that from,Besides that i got a whole new world to explore PEACE YALL!

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by optikstrange

i got a whole new world to explore PEACE YALL!

you can say that again. EQ really is a whole world unto itself. so simple, yet so complicated

[alyricalmind]

Originally Posted by optikstrange

Correct me if im wrong but once u take out all your unwated freqs u will be able to make the overall mix louder right??

No, you can't make the mix louder by taking out frequencies... you can give it depth and better dynamics though. You can also make it sound a lot cleaner. Still need to compress to make the overall mix louder.

[optikstrange]

Originally Posted by alyricalmind

Still need to compress to make the overall mix louder.

I know that,I mean it wont get louder by itself.Ive compress and limited raw songs and instrumentals (No EQ) and the low end just drowned out everything,I still cant think where i heard this from.I guess ill have to find out for myself.

[ds-ds]

Originally Posted by alyricalmind

No, you can't make the mix louder by taking out frequencies... .

How about using hi pass filter? I read it somewhere at mastering forum.
And it happened to me also...not sure what I did. I think I just used the hi pass filter and the track that wasn't clipping before, started to clip.

EDIT.
OK, I used low cut FFT Filter...but I can't find the thread right now.../I didn't start it and wasn't posting in it/.
I think they wrote about the energy and so on...hmm...can't find it.

[Jake Gilla]

Originally Posted by alyricalmind

No, you can't make the mix louder by taking out frequencies... you can give it depth and better dynamics though. You can also make it sound a lot cleaner. Still need to compress to make the overall mix louder.

I'm sorry but this is not completely true. You should do some research on masking and audio perception.

[alyricalmind]

Originally Posted by Jake Gilla

I'm sorry but this is not completely true. You should do some research on masking and audio perception.

EQ's goal is to put everything within a limited frequency range into its own best sounding frequency so that a track can sound bigger, more clear, and with minimal masking... giving everything its own space. Compression is to moderate dynamics so that a track be turned up louder without the dynamics clipping. Though good EQing allows us to hear a track clearer at lower volumes, it is not a substitute for louder volume... more volume on a well EQd song has a much bigger impact on audio perception than just great EQing and low volume. All I'm saying is that EQ shouldn't be used to try to subsititute for compression as that's not its purpose and neither is it very effective. That's my opinion though and I would love to hear yours instead of a blunt insult.

[James Meeker]

Compression and limiting is far more important than EQ for getting a professional sound. However, you're going to need to know how to do both.

[FROG-BROSIVE]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Compression and limiting is far more important than EQ for getting a professional sound. However, you're going to need to know how to do both.

I do not agree, for a song to sound profesional it must be mixed and eq'd all at well balanced levels than copressed to fit the song. To say that copression is more important is rediculous, the better your song is mixed and eq'd the less you will have to compress. compression is not the ansewer to poorly mixed song. I can consitanly shape my drums to pound or not by eqing them. If you dont belive me reply to the post and i will repost a list of drums and how to eq them. Im not trying to shoot anybody down with this, the point im trying to make is that both eqing and compressing are equally as important and you should never over use one unless its in your intentions.

[tonyscarbones]

after it's eq'd and mixed, when you just end up with the 2stereo track, if ur gonna master it to make it louder and eq, should you eq first and then compress or the other way around

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Compression and limiting is far more important than EQ for getting a professional sound. However, you're going to need to know how to do both.

Generally speaking that's not true.

However, IF your base recordings are really good, then compression and limiting may be the more important factor.

[Jake Gilla]

Originally Posted by alyricalmind

EQ's goal is to put everything within a limited frequency range into its own best sounding frequency so that a track can sound bigger, more clear, and with minimal masking... giving everything its own space. Compression is to moderate dynamics so that a track be turned up louder without the dynamics clipping. Though good EQing allows us to hear a track clearer at lower volumes, it is not a substitute for louder volume... more volume on a well EQd song has a much bigger impact on audio perception than just great EQing and low volume. All I'm saying is that EQ shouldn't be used to try to subsititute for compression as that's not its purpose and neither is it very effective. That's my opinion though and I would love to hear yours instead of a blunt insult.

Not trying to insult anyone, just stating facts. You CAN make a mix louder by removing select frequency's on certain track. You stated otherwise, my reccomendation was purely from the perspective that you did not know this, I was trying to be helpful.

Lets not forget that compression was originally intended for tracking to tape(in audio, broadcast is a different story), not mixing. By reducing peaks and raising the overall volume, you could send a consistent volume to tape with out hearing hiss at the low points in the track. Only later did it find its way to mixing, and has probably become the most over/missused processor in audio.

Personally, my order of operations is; levels, panning, eq, saturation and if that doesn't work compression. But the beautiful thing about mixing is we can all do it however we want, as long as it sounds good who cares.

Peace.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by Jake Gilla

Not trying to insult anyone, just stating facts. You CAN make a mix louder by removing select frequency's on certain track. You stated otherwise, my reccomendation was purely from the perspective that you did not know this, I was trying to be helpful.

Lets not forget that compression was originally intended for tracking to tape(in audio, broadcast is a different story), not mixing. By reducing peaks and raising the overall volume, you could send a consistent volume to tape with out hearing hiss at the low points in the track. Only later did it find its way to mixing, and has probably become the most over/missused processor in audio.

Personally, my order of operations is; levels, panning, eq, saturation and if that doesn't work compression. But the beautiful thing about mixing is we can all do it however we want, as long as it sounds good who cares.

Peace.

I Agree.

IMO, removing select frequencies is something that should be done before reaching for a compressor as well. Compressing a shitty sound will only bring out more of that shitty quality you dont want.

For sounds with a lot of unneeded low end energy, a highpass filter can help you get more dbs of good compression out of a sound or mix before it craps out, thus in the case of a mix especially, allowing you to make it louder.

There are specific reasons why one should use eq or compression, or eq before or after compression. Once those reasons are more clearly understood, you have the power to shape your mixes any which way your imagination allows you to.

[tonyscarbones]

but if you eq before, isn't the compressor going to push that frequency that you lowered right back up to where u don't want it?

[alyricalmind]

Originally Posted by Jake Gilla

Not trying to insult anyone, just stating facts. You CAN make a mix louder by removing select frequency's on certain track. You stated otherwise, my reccomendation was purely from the perspective that you did not know this, I was trying to be helpful.

That still doesn't explain HOW removing frequencies makes a track louder? For example, I stated that by reducing dynamics through compression, we are able to turn up the volume without the highest dynamics clipping.

How does removing let's say lows from a vocal take make the vocals louder? For example, there is a faint presence of lows in a vox recording at around -20db that has an overall 10 db headroom (-10db) and we remove the lows to get out the mud. Now the excess noise in the -20db range is gone that was caused by the lows and the track is cleaner but the highest dynamics (-10db) remain untouched and there is still 10db of headroom before the track clips. Unless the lows were producing the highest dynamics, the track has the potential to be no louder than it did before the EQ... and if the lows are indeed that loud, there is obviously something very wrong with the recording and an EQ is not the answer.

Lets not forget that compression was originally intended for tracking to tape(in audio, broadcast is a different story), not mixing. By reducing peaks and raising the overall volume, you could send a consistent volume to tape with out hearing hiss at the low points in the track. Only later did it find its way to mixing, and has probably become the most over/missused processor in audio.

History of compressors has nothing to do with their proven ability to make overall tracks louder. Neither does it prove that EQs play a critical role in making tracks louder.

Personally, my order of operations is; levels, panning, eq, saturation and if that doesn't work compression. But the beautiful thing about mixing is we can all do it however we want, as long as it sounds good who cares.

Peace.

I never said anything about EQs not making things sound good. Neither did I say compression should be used excessively. All I said was compressor = better tool for making tracks louder than an EQ.

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by alyricalmind

That still doesn't explain HOW removing frequencies makes a track louder?...

don't you think that removing (unnecessary) lows from let's say a kick, which can eat up much space, could result in a louder master?

[Storyville]

Couple things you should know:

There are low and high frequencies that we cannot physically hear. The low ones tend to be unneeded for most music. This area is often called DC Rumble. I wouldn't recommend a HP Filter though, unless you have a really high quality analog one, because the subharmonics still effect the tonal quality of your mix, and a poor DC Offset will probably give your mix a papery effect.

EQing out unnecessary frequencies will not make a track physically louder. Period. You are taking sound out of the mix. Usually, this will not make the track appear louder either. Noise and distortion often create the illusion of loudness. Taking out your unneeded frequencies is great for allowing the sound to be more open - but balancing "open" with "full" while trying not to be "thin" or "cluttered" is really the art.

Hearing is not linear. Don't forget that. We are more sensitive to frequencies in the high mid range than anywhere else in the spectrum. This can be utilized to make two interesting sonic illusions. The first is bring up the apparant size of a track my bringing up the high mids. This is often done in vocals to make them more present. The second is to create the illusion of a more open mix, by scooping the mids. We tend to hear those upper mids increase linearly with gain, while we hear lows and highs increase exponentially with gain. That means louder music effectively has a perceived scoop in the mids. By creating that illusion at lower levels of volume we give the feeling of openess.

Compression is not the loudenator. Compression effects either micro or macro dynamics. Compressors can be used to make things appear closer or farther in prominence, soften transients, increase punch, increase sustain, create pumping if it is desired, or reduce distracting dynamic shifts.

That being all said. Yeah, get rid of those unwanted frequencies. Just watch that line between open and thin. At the end of the day, an open mix can be made louder because there will be less distortion (or rather, more sonic room for distortion) when the compressors get pushed.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by tonyscarbones

but if you eq before, isn't the compressor going to push that frequency that you lowered right back up to where u don't want it?

Thinking technically, thats true.

I dont usually smash my sounds with a lot of hard compression, but if I do (most likely with drums and bass on a separate bus) I will also eq post compression to make up for it if necessary. Personally, I feel things sound better when you try to remove problem frequencies first with an eq and shape the sound, then compress THAT SOUND you hear, especially if the problem areas are those that trigger and hit the compressor the hardest. You get a different sounding compression when you eq first.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Compression and limiting is far more important than EQ for getting a professional sound. However, you're going to need to know how to do both.

I'd say the this indeed is true, in the sense that you theoretically might have a really well recorded project where you actually don't hardly need any eq, but to make it sound like a modern 'record' you are not getting past the need for compression/limiting. In reality you'll need a bit of both, but the better the recording the less eq. Still the same amount (to taste) of compression though.....

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by Storyville

...At the end of the day, an open mix can be made louder because there will be less distortion (or rather, more sonic room for distortion) when the compressors get pushed.

that's "all" i'm saying... or trying to say.
and oh... thanks for elaborating.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Jake Gilla

I'm sorry but this is not completely true. You should do some research on masking and audio perception.

don't forget phasing problems and comb-filtering...

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by alyricalmind

That still doesn't explain HOW removing frequencies makes a track louder?.

it doesn't automatically make a track louder. it allows you to turn a track up louder than you would without removing those frequencies.

the best example i can think of is an 808 kick. a lot of times i find myself needing to remove some of the low end in order to turn it up loud enough in the mix without killing all my headroom.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Compression and limiting is far more important than EQ for getting a professional sound. However, you're going to need to know how to do both.

The most important element in a professional sound is the source. Whether it's well-chosen sounds in a beat or a great tracking job in a live instrumental, the source dictates the final product more than any other factor.

With that in mind, James is absolutely correct. Well-crafted sounds won't need a lot in the way of EQ, and dynamics-shapers can be the professional "glue" that really makes a mix shine.

Originally Posted by beat you down

don't you think that removing (unnecessary) lows from let's say a kick, which can eat up much space, could result in a louder master?

Yes, this is absolutely right. Using EQ to clean up a mix can result in a louder master. Frankly, I'm surprised that there's even an argument.

[rickrock305]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Well-crafted sounds won't need a lot in the way of EQ, .

You forget you are in the RnB and Hip Hop forum?


most people i work with don't even want to take the time to get a basic proper level, let alone actually craft a sound.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by rickrock305

You forget you are in the RnB and Hip Hop forum?


most people i work with don't even want to take the time to get a basic proper level, let alone actually craft a sound.

Fair enough, but I'm actually in the process of mixing a few songs off an upcoming (hip hop) record with track counts well above 100, and the only thing making it all possible is the expertly-chosen sounds and arrangements. Am I using EQ? Of course. But the mixes are coming together because of an aggressive use of volume and panning automation, compression, and LOTS of high-pass filtering. Not a lot of non-filter EQ, and what I do use, I use minimally (ie - conservative boosts, lots of little cuts, etc).

This producer/emcee has spent a LOT of time honing his sounds and songs (yes, he's writing SONGS, not "making beats"), and has really done a great job. Plus, it's his first-ever shot at production. He's definitely in the minority with this regard, and it's been a real pleasure working on his stuff.

I wish all my hip hop gigs sounded this good coming in.