Anyone checked Snoops new album?

[goldphinga]

Hi all. Just got a copy of Snoops new album and the Neptunes trax in particular sound great. Lofi but very hifi at the same time. Just wondered what you other slutz thought about the general sound of the album. Ive noticed when listening to the Neptunes trax in particular that all the vocals seem to have some crazy stereo image
/wideness going on.Almost like the vox are coming from outside the stereo image , especially if you close your eyes when listening. Anyone else checked it?

[Dor]

I checked out a bunch of songs off of his latest album a little while back. Amazing production, sub par lyrics. I guess that's another topic. haha. I swear/hope snoop freestyled that whole album. His team is definitely doing it up big on the production/engineering side. Top shelf...

D

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by Dor

I checked out a bunch of songs off of his latest album a little while back. Amazing production, sub par lyrics. I guess that's another topic. haha. I swear/hope snoop freestyled that whole album. His team is definitely doing it up big on the production/engineering side. Top shelf...

D

If it wasn't for spelling his name Snoop wouldn't have much to say. I would love to know how they got that vocal so far on this side of the speakers though. Who mixed those tunes?

Sorta OT, but did you ever hear that neptunes jam with super cat and Jada? Hot to death!!! When beats meet lyrics magic happens.

[jonnyclueless]

No disrespect to the Neptunes, but I am curious if I am the only one who thinks their production style is the worst sound ever? Everyone has their own taste so there is no right or wrong, but this whole 'no bass, no melody, no feel drums' trend that got startedhas got to end sometime, or so I hope. Definitely talanted people, but it's just not for me. I used to be involved mostly in R&B, but due to the production techniques pioneered by the Neptunes, I don't really care to be involved in R&B and HipHop anymore, or at least until it goes back to the way it once was.

Sorry if that sounds really negative. Don't mean to be, just wondering if it's just me. When I listen to the tuff Snoop orginally did and then listen to his current stuff, it's really depressing to me. But it's not just imitted to Snoop, it's pretty much everyone doing the same exact thing for every song (copying the Neptunes).

[Flora]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

No disrespect to the Neptunes, but I am curious if I am the only one who thinks their production style is the worst sound ever? Everyone has their own taste so there is no right or wrong, but this whole 'no bass, no melody, no feel drums' trend that got startedhas got to end sometime, or so I hope. Definitely talanted people, but it's just not for me. I used to be involved mostly in R&B, but due to the production techniques pioneered by the Neptunes, I don't really care to be involved in R&B and HipHop anymore, or at least until it goes back to the way it once was.

Sorry if that sounds really negative. Don't mean to be, just wondering if it's just me. When I listen to the tuff Snoop orginally did and then listen to his current stuff, it's really depressing to me. But it's not just imitted to Snoop, it's pretty much everyone doing the same exact thing for every song (copying the Neptunes).

Personally, I love the Neptunes sound and am encouraged that people that creative are having the success that they are. REAL drums in hip-hop done well is exciting to me. I always thought they had mad feel but I'm drawn to the rawness I guess. It seems like just about everything else in R&B sounds so much the same and could all be made by the same 3 people from what I can tell so anytime somebody brings a fresh sound I'll take notice. But indeed - its not meant to be for everyone.

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

No disrespect to the Neptunes, but I am curious if I am the only one who thinks their production style is the worst sound ever? Everyone has their own taste so there is no right or wrong, but this whole 'no bass, no melody, no feel drums' trend that got startedhas got to end sometime, or so I hope. .

I don't mean to pick on your post but this statement is odd to me. The first Neptunes jam I heard was "Dirty I got your money" If you can stay still while that bass line and beat are groovin you are probably dead... Or an accountant. Not that there's anything wrong with being dead. The next jam I heard from them was "Super Thug" Which was a very electronic, hard quantized sound with Nore spittin on it. I still couldn't keep still.


It's the most recent crop of Pharrel joints that I can't stand (sorry fans) It's pharrel singing out of tune over crappy beats with crappy synth sounds and lame hooks, trying to sound "70's" but missing by at least a decade. But, to each his own.

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by Paul David

I don't mean to pick on your post but this statement is odd to me. The first Neptunes jam I heard was "Dirty I got your money" If you can stay still while that bass line and beat are groovin you are probably dead... Or an accountant. Not that there's anything wrong with being dead. The next jam I heard from them was "Super Thug" Which was a very electronic, hard quantized sound with Nore spittin on it. I still couldn't keep still.


It's the most recent crop of Pharrel joints that I can't stand (sorry fans) It's pharrel singing out of tune over crappy beats with crappy synth sounds and lame hooks, trying to sound "70's" but missing by at least a decade. But, to each his own.

Well, I don't nesc mean everything they have done. It's when they came out with that Britney Spear song "Slave". Ever since then everyone has tried to copy that same production style from that song and nothing has changed since. While The Neptunes were very original in doing that song, most everyone since has been just copying the same thing over and over. Sure their early and solo stuff was great in that it had live instruments. And song's like Hot in here are what inspired me in the R&B realm. But then when you listen to stuff like "drop it like it's hard" (I forget the name now), and it's jsut a lifeless beat with a whistle sound. I think many insurance seminars are more creative and interesting than that song. But if it was ony a song or two that were ike that, then it WOULDbe interesting. It's only that everyone seems to be making the same exact song that ithas become boring. LL Cool J was a pioneer, but his last record sounded just likeeverything else. Will Smith was a pioneer with the Fresh Prince stuff, his new album sounds just like everything else. Mariah Carey hadsome iovative songs, now her new album sounds just ike everyone else.

I don't blame the Neptunes because they were original instartin the trend, but at the same time it has been a curse of a trend for me. I just miss songs with Bass, songs where the drums didn't have the life quantized outof them (bring back the original MCP60), songs were there was a melody intead of some annoying whistle sound in the background. Listen to any on of these modern productions and A/B it to something like 'California Love', or as mentioned above 'Dirty I got your money'. And tell me there isn't something missing. Or better yet, compre it to some of Snoops first album! :-)

[strauss]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

LL Cool J was a pioneer, but his last record sounded just likeeverything else. Will Smith was a pioneer with the Fresh Prince stuff, his new album sounds just like everything else. Mariah Carey hadsome iovative songs, now her new album sounds just ike everyone else.

This is very true, but has always been the case and probably will be so in the future.
Remember when Dre introduced 'G-funk' ...and everybody copied that sound...

I have a feelling though that you can put a lot of blame of this whole 'Xerox' situation on the record mooks. Lots of times they don't care about musical creativity and just want to jump on the bandwagon.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

LL Cool J was a pioneer, but his last record sounded just like everything else. Will Smith was a pioneer with the Fresh Prince stuff, his new album sounds just like everything else. Mariah Carey hadsome iovative songs, now her new album sounds just ike everyone else.

You have to keep in mind that all of the rappers mentioned are far from being at the top of their games, musically. They have all lost their edges due to being close to middle age millionaires. They aren't exaclty what i'd call hungry. I guess it happens to the best of them.

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by Dor

You have to keep in mind that all of the rappers mentioned are far from being at the top of their games, musically. They have all lost their edges due to being close to middle age millionaires. They aren't exaclty what i'd call hungry. I guess it happens to the best of them.

I can't disagree with you there, but I feel the same wy about the young new guys too. Only that the old farts are just trying to copy th bad trends of the new guys. I'm sorry, but 50 cents new single puts me to sleep. It's like a 4 bar loop with Special ed slurring some kind of rudimentry words over it from beginning to end. Sure it's not fair to compare the guy to Tupac, but it's too far from him for me. I agree with the poster above that the blame probably mostly goes to the record mooks. These days most people in the record labels have no musical experience (same with many producers). I jsut hope something happens soon to where HipHop and R&B (commercial) become listenable for me once again. Somehow the bar needs to be lifted off the ground. Until then I wil just listen to artists older stuff.

[M2E]

Sorry I had to jump in on this as I've seen it from the start of the R&B/Hip Hop music trend.
1st- It started with R&B and James Brown. He was so far ahead of everyone else in music or as far as R&B that people started copying that style. BAddly I might ad. It finally brought down the quality of what he was doing plus electronic keyboards and drums were just coming out.
2nd Then came Parliament/Funkadelic/George Clinton- When they came out they had a lock on R&B. Those were the most musical times weve had in R&B so far. You could just try about anything "almost." But people started copying that as well. The copies wasn't to bad as far a it gave us the Barkeys, Cameo started doing it, and alot of others jumped on the bandwagon. But also back then there were only about twenty to thirty artist in R&B. Not like it is now.
3rd Then came Hip Hop/R&B's Teddy Riley- When he created the New Jack Swing he took Funk to a whole nother level. But he added hip hop drums to it that just took off. All the big producers started copying that as well as by this time it was more about the producer than the artist. Babyface tried, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Dallas Austin, Jermaine Dupri, R-Kelly I mean just about every producer/Artist had to because he was so far ahead as in production and beats. Almost every record in the 90's was swingbeat as far as R&B not so much Hip Hop though.
4th then came someone who changed all that a little-Timbaland with his double beat programming. That took R&B away from Teddy to Timbo. Then everyone jumped on that. But for not long as that really got played out fast because by this time we had about 50 labels with 200 atrist coming out with it. Good thing he switched his style and when more hip hop.

NOW- heres the Neptunes- My take on it is this. They're no Teddy or George Clinton or Timbo but they are great. There chords on some songs make you get up or sit down and try to replay it if you are a musican. There's quality in there records. There weak point is there songs in general. Lyric's I mean. Sometimes there beats sound to much the same as well. There best work by far was with Usher I think. Solid songs. Everything else sounds the same to me because of the beat mostly. There melody's are different on most songs but the Lyric are always talking about the same thing. I respect there work and what they do more now then before. I understand it better but I'm not running out to buy there records. With the no bass thing on some songs. They got that from Teddy Riley. He would do that sometime like on Rump shaker and other songs like the Micheal Jackson ones. He was known to do that because his beats were so heavy-Kick heavy and the snare was like BAM!!! There from that era of music.

Jus My Thought on things-Sorry for the long post

M2E

[strauss]

Originally Posted by M2E

.... They got that from Teddy Riley. He would do that sometime like on Rump shaker and other songs like the Micheal Jackson ones. He was known to do that because his beats were so heavy-Kick heavy and the snare was like BAM!!! There from that era of music.

I believe Rumpshaker was actually produced by the neptunes after they where discovered by Teddy Riley at a talent show!

The thing I like about producers like Dre, Neptunes, Rodney Jerkins and Timberland is the way they create a certain style, it gets copied by all and they move on to create something new....though it's all just an evolution off course....

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by goldphinga

Hi all. Just got a copy of Snoops new album and the Neptunes trax in particular sound great. Lofi but very hifi at the same time. Just wondered what you other slutz thought about the general sound of the album. Ive noticed when listening to the Neptunes trax in particular that all the vocals seem to have some crazy stereo image
/wideness going on.Almost like the vox are coming from outside the stereo image , especially if you close your eyes when listening. Anyone else checked it?

The best part is everything is mixed entirely in the box! And everyone always says that mixing in the box ruins your stereo imaging. Ha!

[Umlaaat]

who mixed that? do they use the same guy for al their shit?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

who mixed that? do they use the same guy for al their shit?

Phil Tan mixed it.

And the answer is no they don't use the same person.

[TonyBelmont]

Most of the Neptunes tracks are mixed by Serban Ghenea... Almost all of them are mixed by Serban and tracked by Drew Coleman. They did the Snoop album in Atlanta and Phil Tan, John Frye, etc.. did the mixing.

[Paul David]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

Well, I don't nesc mean everything they have done. It's when they came out with that Britney Spear song "Slave". Ever since then everyone has tried to copy that same production style from that song and nothing has changed since. While The Neptunes were very original in doing that song, most everyone since has been just copying the same thing over and over. Sure their early and solo stuff was great in that it had live instruments. And song's like Hot in here are what inspired me in the R&B realm. But then when you listen to stuff like "drop it like it's hard" (I forget the name now), and it's jsut a lifeless beat with a whistle sound. I think many insurance seminars are more creative and interesting than that song. But if it was ony a song or two that were ike that, then it WOULDbe interesting. It's only that everyone seems to be making the same exact song that ithas become boring. LL Cool J was a pioneer, but his last record sounded just likeeverything else. Will Smith was a pioneer with the Fresh Prince stuff, his new album sounds just like everything else. Mariah Carey hadsome iovative songs, now her new album sounds just ike everyone else.

I don't blame the Neptunes because they were original instartin the trend, but at the same time it has been a curse of a trend for me. I just miss songs with Bass, songs where the drums didn't have the life quantized outof them (bring back the original MCP60), songs were there was a melody intead of some annoying whistle sound in the background. Listen to any on of these modern productions and A/B it to something like 'California Love', or as mentioned above 'Dirty I got your money'. And tell me there isn't something missing. Or better yet, compre it to some of Snoops first album! :-)

Point well taken! My take on the current crop of computers music is that it's a blessing in disguise. I'm a jazz guitarist turned producer and I got a team of the nastiest cats in town on the tracks that I'm making right now. I also encourage reckless use of musicallity in the sessions and hardly every say "I want it to sound like [artist of the week]"

One other thing is that I'm a hip hop/R&B producer who does not own Autoruine I had one of the baddest singers in the valley talking about... "Can't you just tune that up in there?" My reply was "Nah, you're going to have to tune it up out there." At first she was kind of , but at the end of the day she was very happy with the tracks and her manager gave me a call saying that she never sounded so good... My mentality is that the only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

OTOH, If it's a lable paying me to work with someone who is... mmm, how do you say in Amedica??? Underdeveloped, then I have a technical wizard who I can send the tracks to. He makes Autoruine sound almost like a human being singing. (Thanks DJ B-style, if you're out there)

[paultools]

I'd like to chime in on this.

I live here in the land of Teddy and the Neptunes, though I don't personally work with them.

Teddy Riley is to be credited with the most AMAZING group of producers in R&B/Hip-Hop/Rap. The Neptunes, Rodney Jerkins, Timbaland, Missy... but also some of the hottest engineers! how many of you knew that Dave Way, Jean-Maire Horvat, and Serban worked at length with Teddy?

Pharell and Chad made a fortune of off two bars, a basic lift of the song "Funky Drummer" by James Brown. I mean that in a totally respectful way! As a music capitalist, I would have done the same thing... if people are diggin it, keep doin' it!
remember Chubby Checker: "The Twist" followed up with " Let's Twist Again"... the Neps are no fools!!! But now as other gifted and SUCCESSFUL creative people have done, they have begun to stretch a little, just as Prince/Miles/Jimi did. They are in a position where they can experiment, and it still sells. When I first heard "Drop it Like It's Hot", I was like GTFOOH. They were criticised for using three consecutive keys of a preset drumset in the Triton for the classic track "Grindin". I say that thousands of other people had access to those same three sounds, where are their hits?

Don't hate... congratulate!

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by paultools

I'd like to chime in on this.

I live here in the land of Teddy and the Neptunes, though I don't personally work with them.

Teddy Riley is to be credited with the most AMAZING group of producers in R&B/Hip-Hop/Rap. The Neptunes, Rodney Jerkins, Timbaland, Missy... but also some of the hottest engineers! how many of you knew that Dave Way, Jean-Maire Horvat, and Serban worked at length with Teddy?

Pharell and Chad made a fortune of off two bars, a basic lift of the song "Funky Drummer" by James Brown. I mean that in a totally respectful way! As a music capitalist, I would have done the same thing... if people are diggin it, keep doin' it!
remember Chubby Checker: "The Twist" followed up with " Let's Twist Again"... the Neps are no fools!!! But now as other gifted and SUCCESSFUL creative people have done, they have begun to stretch a little, just as Prince/Miles/Jimi did. They are in a position where they can experiment, and it still sells. When I first heard "Drop it Like It's Hot", I was like GTFOOH. They were criticised for using three consecutive keys of a preset drumset in the Triton for the classic track "Grindin". I say that thousands of other people had access to those same three sounds, where are their hits?

Don't hate... congratulate!

I think you summed up what I hate about the current music biz. It's only about how sells. If it is a big seller then it must be better... So sad. In the past the label mooks have always had that mentality, but now it seems the artist and producers do as well. But there arestil some of us out here who believe in the art of what we do and recognize the difference between good work and big selling work.

[paultools]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

But there arestil some of us out here who believe in the art of what we do and recognize the difference between good work and big selling work.

I agree, and I also think that there is an art to making commercial music that sells well. This is what these guys have chosen to do, and they do it well. I don't knock anyone who chooses to tap into the income potential from the entertainment industry. For purists, let's be thankful that there are alternative distribution/sales avenues that are opening up.

PBS has been on TV for a long time. "American Idol" gets the ratings....

[rjx]

Does anyone here even know that the Neptunes got their major start back in 1992 on "Rump Shaker" by Wrecks In Effect when they teamed up with Teddy Riley? In the video Pharrel is getting down e

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by paultools

I agree, and I also think that there is an art to making commercial music that sells well. This is what these guys have chosen to do, and they do it well. I don't knock anyone who chooses to tap into the income potential from the entertainment industry. For purists, let's be thankful that there are alternative distribution/sales avenues that are opening up.

PBS has been on TV for a long time. "American Idol" gets the ratings....

I agree, it's just that commercial music has gone past the point of listenability for me. I guess it's always been on a downward spiral, and that it has just finally dropped past my threshold of enjoyment. I have always enjoyed commercial music and never really been very picky about artististry. But the things I enjoyed able commercial music, or at least in R&B/HipHop (rok is a whole nother conversation) are gone. That was things like melody, feel, and bass. Now the only option are bad Neptunes ripoffs (and some bad Netpunes productions (such as drop it like its hard/hott). Kind of reminds me of metal in the late 80s when everything became about hair rather than the music. Nirvana came along and put things back on track for a bit, so hopefully there wil be a Nirvana of HipHop. To me the Neptunes, as talented as they are, are not gonna be the ones to fix things.

It's also funny that Jon Marie is mentioned. He is a good friend of mine and aside from being the greatest R&B mixer in existance, he is as frustrated as I am about the current production trend. To the point that even he doesn't enjoy working on R&B and HipHop much anymore. The Netpunes made things low fi. It was an artistic move. Most everyone else makes things lofi because they are not skilled enough to make things hifi and don't have the ear. So they just write it off as being like Neptunes. I did a lot of work with a group called Arrested Development. And everything had to sound lofi, which frustrated me. But looking back now, I see how much sense it made acknowledge that we had the skill to make the highest of fi (lol) but artistically chose to make things lofi. For example we were doing a song about people being out of work, etc. You can't have a fancy polished sounding song. But when every song is about being up in the club?

But my point I guess is that you can be commercial and artistic (somewhat). But now the artisticness is going away. I guess it can be argued that it always has. But when I am doing R&B sessions these days I feel like a factory worker, even with artists who inspired me to get into the business. I didn't used to feel that way. I used to love it. But maybe it's just me....

I just beg people to stop over quantizing and put some feel back into the beat. :-)

[paultools]

I agree with much of what you said!

Nothing is more boring to me than the whole process.... plug up some boxes full of other people's music... make it loud... make those drums "hit" harder.... 15 hours of blunt smoke at 130 db... I'd rather have a yard sale at this point. Yet, I respect the people and artists that make those records and recognize that one must "move with the cheese" to survive in this business.

Some of us (me) are getting old and starting to sound like our fathers.." I remember when we had to .... now that was REAL recording...!!: LOL What was once new is old. The Neptunes were the future at one point... THEY were the "breath of fresh air", props to them for still being a worthy topic at this point. Most producers are here today, and gone... later today.

I am currently producing a Metalcore (screamo) band.... 17 and 18 year olds that practice every day are are FURIOUS on their axes. I'm having a great time!

[Julien Apruzzese]

I have this Snoop album and i have to say that in an engineering way, it sounds not very good.
In a production way, there are lots of very good ideas, like it's true the Neptune tracks.
The only one great name engineer on this album is Manny Marrequin and he appears only one time.
For instance, if you would have given these tracks to Serban Ghenea, Tony Maserati and Manny Marrequin, you would have the same production talents but in an other best way sounding ...

[paultools]

Originally Posted by julien_a

The only one great name engineer on this album is Manny Marrequin and he appears only one time.
...

Phil Tan has made a few records here and there:

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Phil%20Tan:1927186180