The pros' secret to mixing.

[phillysoulman]

Mix at low to medium volume WITHOUT your subwoofer engaged.
Use the sub ONLY to check low end reference and to hype your homies and a&rs.

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by OBSCENE

As said before...

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE

oh yeah and practice some more

Also when you're learning if a song is just to hard to get right work on something else for a while then return to it listening to a bad mix of something for too long can ruin you're perspective I have been guilty of this many times and probably will be again.

best words in this thread.

Its the main thing that separates the folks "that know" from the folks "that don't know." They just got so much more practice. Too many try to make it all technical and s h i t when its really not.

[rowan_rashard]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Mix at low to medium volume WITHOUT your subwoofer engaged.
Use the sub ONLY to check low end reference and to hype your homies and a&rs.

[jedilaw]

Originally Posted by Denny McNerney

i'm sure there are a lot of people here reading that, and are now scrambling to find the BALANCE, PROPORTION, and RELATIVITY presets on their waves plug-ins...

Hell with that, I'm still trying to get my "Make That Groove Stanky" VST to work in Ableton live...

[Left Headphone]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Y'know, it's a funny thing, no one ever seems to mention things like "get a really good balance" or "ride the faders when that part gets too loud". It's always parallel process this, stereo-widen plug-in that. Maybe that's the reason people keep asking the same inane questions about how to achieve a professional sound.

Seriously, guys, mixing is about BALANCE, PROPORTION, and RELATIVITY. There's no black magic or secret trick. And your tools are not the problem.




Just had to get that out here.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Mix at low to medium volume WITHOUT your subwoofer engaged.
Use the sub ONLY to check low end reference and to hype your homies and a&rs.

i think the more important rule is to KNOW YOUR SPEAKERS. If i'm listening to my Event's, my sub is on. always. i have a smaller set of speakers that i spend alot of time during the mix on that do not have a sub woofer on. I know what each speaker is telling me and they are both important. before i started mixing with a sub, my mixes were often wayyyy toooo basssssyy

And i think as far as mix volume, its simply important that your mix sound great at ALL volumes. I start really loud for about a half hour to really vibe with things while i'm getting basic feel and balance, then i'll spend much more time at medium to low volumes, and switching between speakers.

but it is IMPORTANT to listen at high volume occasionally, because if something is really hurting your ears at high volume, its gonna really hurt everyone elses ears when they are crankin their ipod or listening in the club.

Plus if your low end is distorting the speakers a high volume, there very well might be something wrong with your low end. Different problems present themselves at different volumes in a mix. Its important to me to reference at all volumes, as well as with a sub and without a sub. My sub isnt there to hype clients, my sub is there to tell me what the sub frequencies are (or are not) doing in my mix. i wouldnt mix without it and i use it for far more than just occasionally referencing my low end.

The best part is when i have clients over and they think they are listening to the big speakers when they are actually listening to the small speakers. thats when you know you have a solid mix!

[Denny Lavish]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

The best part is when i have clients over and they think they are listening to the big speakers when they are actually listening to the small speakers. thats when you know you have a solid mix!

I love that too!!!


Lavish

[Autotune Prophet]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

i think the more important rule is to KNOW YOUR SPEAKERS. If i'm listening to my Event's, my sub is on. always. i have a smaller set of speakers that i spend alot of time during the mix on that do not have a sub woofer on. I know what each speaker is telling me and they are both important. before i started mixing with a sub, my mixes were often wayyyy toooo basssssyy

And i think as far as mix volume, its simply important that your mix sound great at ALL volumes. I start really loud for about a half hour to really vibe with things while i'm getting basic feel and balance, then i'll spend much more time at medium to low volumes, and switching between speakers.

but it is IMPORTANT to listen at high volume occasionally, because if something is really hurting your ears at high volume, its gonna really hurt everyone elses ears when they are crankin their ipod or listening in the club.

Plus if your low end is distorting the speakers a high volume, there very well might be something wrong with your low end. Different problems present themselves at different volumes in a mix. Its important to me to reference at all volumes, as well as with a sub and without a sub. My sub isnt there to hype clients, my sub is there to tell me what the sub frequencies are (or are not) doing in my mix. i wouldnt mix without it and i use it for far more than just occasionally referencing my low end.

The best part is when i have clients over and they think they are listening to the big speakers when they are actually listening to the small speakers. thats when you know you have a solid mix!

Excellent post, especially as far as the "Different problems present themselves at different volumes in a mix" part is concerned. Very inspirational.

Me: I'm taking notes

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Y'know, it's a funny thing, no one ever seems to mention things like "get a really good balance" or "ride the faders when that part gets too loud". It's always parallel process this, stereo-widen plug-in that. Maybe that's the reason people keep asking the same inane questions about how to achieve a professional sound.

Seriously, guys, mixing is about BALANCE, PROPORTION, and RELATIVITY. There's no black magic or secret trick. And your tools are not the problem.

I always thought that 'balance' and 'riding the faders' are no-brainers so that all the 'parallel process'-question take this for granted, I may be wrong....

But a mix can be totally 'right' as far as BALANCE, PROPORTION, and RELATIVITY are concerned yet still fail to MOVE, EXCITE and IMPRESS. That's the part that defines 'pro' to me in the same way that any jazz player worth his salt will know his scales, standards and Trane solos but very few of them can really deliver the music in a way that makes it attractive to people that may not be 'insiders'.

So any parallel processing trick is useful to read about, I don't need to read about balance because that's something you have to hear and apply for yourself.

If the gear isn't important then why not save some money and start a Formula I racing team equipped with VW Beetles?

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

i think the more important rule is to KNOW YOUR SPEAKERS. If i'm listening to my Event's, my sub is on. always. i have a smaller set of speakers that i spend alot of time during the mix on that do not have a sub woofer on. I know what each speaker is telling me and they are both important. before i started mixing with a sub, my mixes were often wayyyy toooo basssssyy

And i think as far as mix volume, its simply important that your mix sound great at ALL volumes. I start really loud for about a half hour to really vibe with things while i'm getting basic feel and balance, then i'll spend much more time at medium to low volumes, and switching between speakers.

but it is IMPORTANT to listen at high volume occasionally, because if something is really hurting your ears at high volume, its gonna really hurt everyone elses ears when they are crankin their ipod or listening in the club.

Plus if your low end is distorting the speakers a high volume, there very well might be something wrong with your low end. Different problems present themselves at different volumes in a mix. Its important to me to reference at all volumes, as well as with a sub and without a sub. My sub isnt there to hype clients, my sub is there to tell me what the sub frequencies are (or are not) doing in my mix. i wouldnt mix without it and i use it for far more than just occasionally referencing my low end.

The best part is when i have clients over and they think they are listening to the big speakers when they are actually listening to the small speakers. thats when you know you have a solid mix!

Ken,
Where are you setting your sub crossover and sub level?

[Methlab]

My mixes have gotten much much better by peaking lower. I try and keep the whole mix peaking at -6 and not even near 0.

Massive difference for me.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Methlab

My mixes have gotten much much better by peaking lower. I try and keep the whole mix peaking at -6 and not even near 0.

Massive difference for me.

No shit!!
More dynamics,eh??

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Ken,
Where are you setting your sub crossover and sub level?

HA! I have absolutely no idea. I think i've gotten very lucky with the pairing. I set it up, start listening to a bunch of CD's and just kinda set the subwoofer response according to my ears. I dont think i can even adjust the crossover point, its just built into the JBL and i dont know what it is. The Event SP8's have a button on back that rolls off below 80Hz so that button is engaged.

The JBL sub does have a volume control though, so i think i've got mine currently set to -4dB and that seems to even out the low end to where it works well for me. Every time i go to mastering things seem to sound like they do in my room, and mastering guys never complain, so its working. Such a scientific method.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

HA! I have absolutely no idea. I think i've gotten very lucky with the pairing. I set it up, start listening to a bunch of CD's and just kinda set the subwoofer response according to my ears. I dont think i can even adjust the crossover point, its just built into the JBL and i dont know what it is. The Event SP8's have a button on back that rolls off below 80Hz so that button is engaged.

The JBL sub does have a volume control though, so i think i've got mine currently set to -4dB and that seems to even out the low end to where it works well for me. Every time i go to mastering things seem to sound like they do in my room, and mastering guys never complain, so its working. Such a scientific method.

Im using JBL 6328ps as the "mains" and a Tannoy 10 inch sub with crossover,level and tilt controls.

Event 20/20 bas for mid field and ns 10 ms as nearfields.
Sometimes Ill switch in the sub with the Events but not al the time..mainly with the JBLs

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

No shit!!
More dynamics,eh??

Yeah for sure. Having that extra room really helps me a lot. I know it is subjective upon your mix style though.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Methlab

Yeah for sure. Having that extra room really helps me a lot. I know it is subjective upon your mix style though.

Im so glad that you are a sensible engineer!!

Ive been trying to tell some of those knuckleheads this for eons and they always balked at my comments.

[thethrillfactor]

I think the one secret no one has mentioned is probably the most mysterious & hardest to explain, that the one thing you really need to have as a professional mixing engineer is the ability to hear the potential of the mix beyond what the tracks in front of you are telling you. But you have to hear it in a way that it will please the talent, the management & record execs, the public and yourself as well. Plus add on top of that you have to be able to realize this vision technically.

This is obviously no easy task. Why?

Because you can if you wish, aspire to work hard at it and spend years working on it and develop the latter or the technical aspects of mixing, but the former...the necessary "internal vision" is something you have to be born with. Now some guys have a lot of the "internal" vision and have no technical savyy. These guys usually end up as the real great music producers and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Actually what this business needs is more people with vision beyond what's at hand. But without the technical experience necessary to deliver a "hit mix" they rely on others to realize their vision for them.

And then you have engineers or technicians that are all technique but lack "it".

While these guys are fine technicians they just can't deliver beyond what's put in front of them, which again is not a bad thing because they make great tracking engineers and DAW editors. Why? Because they will make sure that things are captured right, documented correctly & edited properly so the mix engineer can more easily realize the vision necessary for the project.

Nowadays because of the way the business has been down graded you have people putting themselves in the position to try be everything, even though they don't have the skill sets to do even one thing great. But that's the state of things.

I think if people really focused in on their strengths and what they really do great things would be better as a whole for everyone.

[irthwirm]

do you have the master vader at 0 and just try to keep everything at -6 or do bring the fader down to -6. I always find it hard to keep it low to stay around -6 especially with my snares.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

do you have the master vader at 0 and just try to keep everything at -6 or do bring the fader down to -6. I always find it hard to keep it low to stay around -6 especially with my snares.

Master FADER at -6

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I think the one secret no one has mentioned is probably the most mysterious & hardest to explain, that the one thing you really need to have as a professional mixing engineer is the ability to hear the potential of the mix beyond what the tracks in front of you are telling you. But you have to hear it in a way that it will please the talent, the management & record execs, the public and yourself as well. Plus add on top of that you have to be able to realize this vision technically.

This is obviously no easy task. Why?

Because you can if you wish, aspire to work hard at it and spend years working on it and develop the latter or the technical aspects of mixing, but the former...the necessary "internal vision" is something you have to be born with. Now some guys have a lot of the "internal" vision and have no technical savyy. These guys usually end up as the real great music producers and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Actually what this business needs is more people with vision beyond what's at hand. But without the technical experience necessary to deliver a "hit mix" they rely on others to realize their vision for them.

And then you have engineers or technicians that are all technique but lack "it".

While these guys are fine technicians they just can't deliver beyond what's put in front of them, which again is not a bad thing because they make great tracking engineers and DAW editors. Why? Because they will make sure that things are captured right, documented correctly & edited properly so the mix engineer can more easily realize the vision necessary for the project.

Nowadays because of the way the business has been down graded you have people putting themselves in the position to try be everything, even though they don't have the skill sets to do even one thing great. But that's the state of things.

I think if people really focused in on their strengths and what they really do great things would be better as a whole for everyone.

Beautiful post. One of the most eloquent and accurate descriptions I've read.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I think if people really focused in on their strengths and what they really do great things would be better as a whole for everyone.

A philosophy for life no doubt.

[Left Headphone]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Master FADER at -6

Where are you letting your peaks hit, 0 or -6?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by C Heat

A philosophy for life no doubt.

This above all: to thine own self be true...
— Hamlet, Act I, sc. iii

[theblotted]

the best way to take one's game to the next level, imo, is find a mentor or somebody else who's better than you. sit down with them, let them do the same mix of the song, and ask how and why.

of course, this is all after you've done your homework - knowing how everything works, signal flow, know how each and every gear works, etc.

then practice some more.

the rest is experience and taste.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Left Headphone

Where are you letting your peaks hit, 0 or -6?

Wherever they work for you,just as long as they dont clip.
I was referring only to my master fader(bus)