two rap mixing questions - vocals (reverb) and sine bass (mixing)

[Jules]

bump

[Jizz]

Hi ThethrillFactor or anyone else!
Was hoping you could elaborate on this suboctave shifter?
[QUOTE=thethrillfactor]

I tend to add a little suboctave shifter on the main hard hiiting kicks(around 44hz). to give space to the bass.

This usualy frees up the 100-120hz region where most basses live.

From 75hz on down you got lots to work with.

Im having a prob with phasing sub bass and kick and bass line.
Mainly kick/Sub...
I guess Im hoping to get the Fat kick, Sub element and Bass line to work together.
Any Eqing/ plug in advice from anyone would be much appreciated!
BTW Im using Logic 6.4.
Cheers!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Jizz

Im having a prob with phasing sub bass and kick and bass line.
Mainly kick/Sub...
I guess Im hoping to get the Fat kick, Sub element and Bass line to work together.
Any Eqing/ plug in advice from anyone would be much appreciated!
BTW Im using Logic 6.4.
Cheers!

Hi,

My first question is what do you mean by phasing?

And i mix on an SSL so i don't mix in the computer(no plugs sorry).

If i were mixing a track with the elements you mentioned, i would treat each one seperately(with comp/freq splits) and buss them to a stereo drum compressor/EQ.

I would also sneak certain notes from each to a sub bass synthesizer.

These days on drums and the sub stuff i am liking the Furman Punch 10.

Its tighter than the DBX stuff and it has a limiter so i can drive it without destroying people's subs in the car.

I blend that in with the rest of the sounds.

I also mix with a subwoofer(for the really low sub stuff its a must).

When i mentioned the octave shifter, in the past i would get tracks to mix that had something like 3 kicks layered together in the same range.

Same for bass.

Basically a big ass peak in the bass range around 100-125hz(the thump area).

Sub octave shifting on certain kick sounds would give the bottomn range better balance.

Basically i did the sine wave triggered by the gate thing but with the idea of shifting the note down an octave(or a fifth).

[Jizz]

Sorry, by phasing I guess I meant "muddy".
Thanks heaps for the info!!
Any eq tips on which frequencies to cut/ boost in each sound (kick/ sub/ bassline) to create that gel/ placement whilst retaining the punch?

Thanks again!

[gb-jazz]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I would also sneak certain notes from each to a sub bass synthesizer.

These days on drums and the sub stuff i am liking the Furman Punch 10.

Its tighter than the DBX stuff and it has a limiter so i can drive it without destroying people's subs in the car.

I blend that in with the rest of the sounds.

Can you please explain this process/concept a bit more in depth?

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

When i mentioned the octave shifter, in the past i would get tracks to mix that had something like 3 kicks layered together in the same range.

Same for bass.

Basically a big ass peak in the bass range around 100-125hz(the thump area).

Sub octave shifting on certain kick sounds would give the bottomn range better balance.

Basically i did the sine wave triggered by the gate thing but with the idea of shifting the note down an octave(or a fifth).

So do you use a frequency analyzer to locate the peak frequencies in the kick, so that you can acurately shift an octave or a fifth. By the way this is a very cool idea.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by gb-jazz

Can you please explain this process/concept a bit more in depth?.

The Furman Punch 10 allows me to send just certain parts depending on level.

What i do is i pick certain notes or beats(like the 1) and send that to the Punch 10.

This way if its on the one the one will be really deep.

Originally Posted by gb-jazz

So do you use a frequency analyzer to locate the peak frequencies in the kick, so that you can acurately shift an octave or a fifth. By the way this is a very cool idea.

Not really i am old school and just use my ears.


I just listen for a combination i like.


I know not very scientific or sexy but there is something said for experience.

[handojin]

old sub bass trick that hasnt been mentioned in this thread is to side chain a compressor and just use the gate triggered from the kik track.. feed a sine wav in the key of the song through the compressor and adjust the decay of the gate to allow more boom or less boom.. i dont really do that but everytime i see someone showing it other ppl seem to be instantly pleased.. someone told me something bout doing the same with a snare and white or pink noise for more snap but it never really did anything for me.. i was probably not patient enough with it though.. kick is really fast and ez to tune in..

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by handojin

old sub bass trick that hasnt been mentioned in this thread is to side chain a compressor and just use the gate triggered from the kik track.. feed a sine wav in the key of the song through the compressor and adjust the decay of the gate to allow more boom or less boom.. i dont really do that but everytime i see someone showing it other ppl seem to be instantly pleased.. someone told me something bout doing the same with a snare and white or pink noise for more snap but it never really did anything for me.. i was probably not patient enough with it though.. kick is really fast and ez to tune in..

That's what i was talking about earlier.

I just tune the sine wave to an octave or a fifth.

I think this trick gets played out though.

The snare trick is with white noise and its as old as dirt.

[handojin]

lol no doubt.. reminded me of the 80's or something..
sorry i missed your earlier post.. i read all the parts bout sub harmics and such but somehow skipped the part where you talked bout trigering synths

[kheftel]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

Don't forget to put the standard stereo delay on the vox to make it sound like 2 of the same rapper are coming to kill you and knock up yo mama.

What is that standard stereo delay? How do I do it? I'm a newb at mixing rap.

[DeeDrive]

Originally Posted by kheftel

What is that standard stereo delay? How do I do it? I'm a newb at mixing rap.

The stereo delay I was talking about is when you put a delay on the track that offsets the left and right channels by a small amount, say 30ms or so. It gives it a doubling effect that makes it sound like there are 2 of the track. If have Pro Tools, select a "Short delay - stereo" delay and change the left channel to be 30ms off of the right channel.

[elan]

Originally Posted by u b k

i'll just chime in to say that doing some of these things in a daw --- specifically, the center-cancellation trick and the very-short-panned-delays trick --- will not produce the same results as doing it in the analog domain.

with short delays, the daw will sum them and produce a very metallic, comb-filtered sound, at least to my ears. and as for mono, or mix minus mono, again, the computer just doesn't yield the same results. daw mono is not as punchy as analog mono, and daw mix-minus-mono doesn't reveal the same level of hidden details.

i have no good explanation for any of this, it just seems like one of the areas where digital still comes up short.


gregoire
del ubik

i exactly had the same sensation, but after started useing AC-1 from McDsp i felt this was not a problem anymore

try it