Make Vocals more upfront ?

[Biggsheff]

Vox Chain - Peluso 2247 LE > API A2D > DBX 160X > Nuendo. I'm tryin to get the Vox to stand out front more. Most tracks I hear its like the Vox pop out right on the edge of the monitors. To me the ones I've been mixing sound too far back. I only take off about 2-3db going in. Compress the lead about 4db and the double about 8db and blend in. Roll off about 120 down. I try not to add too much Eq. Just take away what sounds bad. Add some delay maybe a little Reverb. Also should I be tracking at a higher sample rate, higher than 44.1 ?


Sample of Vox.

MySpace.com - SOUTHERN STATE PRODUCTIONS - Pensacola, Florida - Rap / Hip Hop - www.myspace.com/southernstateproductions

[beat you down]

depends on the rest of the track as well, you might have stuff going on that conflicts with the vox.

[moracspace]

Boost 300 hz

[Ray Sr.]

Try to EQ the instumental to clear up somethings for your voice.

[Alxi]

I haven't listend to the exemple but you might wanna try boosting a 5khz on your double track... brings a nice presence

-Alxi-

[phillysoulman]

Try starting your mix with just the vocals.
Set your master fader at about -6 db
Place your vocal track at 0 db
Do some prelim eq on the vocal until it sound right to you.
Now,bring in your kick drum and place it just a tad under the vox.
Bring in the snare, making sure that your monitors are at a comfortable listening level.

Eq your kick and snare to your liking.

Now slowly bring in your other elements always paying attention to your vocal making sure that its sitting just a little bit above the track, all the while listening at a relatively low level.

Now crank up your monitors and check for your bottom end relative level.

f the vox is still not poking out properly, try adding about 2db at 5kh, roll off a little 500hz,maybe add a little 12khz for some air.

[tonymission]

Originally Posted by moracspace

Boost 300 hz

i personally wouldnt...

id roll off more than he already is with a couple slight boosts in the mid-upper end. seems like all you gotta do nowadays to keep up with the jonses is run a vocal stem thats been rolled all the way off on the bottom into a slam'd comp and you're sounding like jeezy already. ;-)

[bgrotto]

How about instead of ****ing around with compression and EQ settings, you try moving the mic around a few inches? Or move the performer? Or try a different room? Once you've got that nailed, EQ and compression will simply enhance an already great-sounding track, plus you won't have to use as much.

A good vocal sound requires more from your mic technique (and the mic technique of the vocalist) than it does from the way you process it. For example, place the mic where you normally place it. Record a pass, then angle the mic towards the vocalist's chest. Record another pass, and angle it towards their nose. Record that, and then drop the mic a few inches. Experiment with heights, angles, and distances between singer and mic, and you'll have a much better vocal sound going in than any EQ could give you. If your client starts getting antsy (which they will if they don't have a lot of experience recording and/or don't trust you entirely as their engineer), patiently explain to them that taking five or ten extra minutes now to get it right will save them hours of mix time. Plus they'll sound 100 times better.

[Heezzi]

Do you have your room treated? If your room is not treated you will pick up a lot of unwanted room ambience that will drown your vocals. I have the 2247LE also. Remeber you have to set your mixes like a sound stage. So if your vocals are dry, then your instruments need to be wetter than the vocals.


- Heezzi

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Heezzi

Remeber you have to set your mixes like a sound stage. So if your vocals are dry, then your instruments need to be wetter than the vocals.


- Heezzi

Good advice, I'd just like to add that the front/back aspect of a mix isn't *just* about ambience levels. Longer predelays make a sounds feel closer, even with high aparent levels of reverb. Duller sounds seem further away, as high frequencies are attenuated by the air they travel in. Also, and this seems stupid-simple, but is actually quite difficult to come to grips with in practice, quieter sources sound far away. It's easy to turn something down, but trying to retain its clarity in a busy mix is not. Also, you may have noticed that overcompressing things can make them sound "small", which can also help push them towards the back of a mix. Using these techniques instead of reverb can lend more separation to a busy mix, plus it'll let you add more lush reverb to a vocal while still keeping it up front.

[Alxi]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Try starting your mix with just the vocals.
Set your master fader at about -6 db
Place your vocal track at 0 db

Why do you put the Master Fader at -6db ? Because you are putting the individual vox tracks at 0db ?? What about leaving the Master at 0db and the individual vox track at -6db ?


-Alxi-

[Heezzi]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Good advice, I'd just like to add that the front/back aspect of a mix isn't *just* about ambience levels. Longer predelays make a sounds feel closer, even with high aparent levels of reverb. Duller sounds seem further away, as high frequencies are attenuated by the air they travel in. Also, and this seems stupid-simple, but is actually quite difficult to come to grips with in practice, quieter sources sound far away. It's easy to turn something down, but trying to retain its clarity in a busy mix is not. Also, you may have noticed that overcompressing things can make them sound "small", which can also help push them towards the back of a mix. Using these techniques instead of reverb can lend more separation to a busy mix, plus it'll let you add more lush reverb to a vocal while still keeping it up front.

I'd agree with that. Different ways to cut an apple. I'm going try the overcompressing techinque when I get to the house.

It like when I do vocals the more bass heavy ones sit behind the lead and around the ones with more higher freqs. I usually have the less compressed stuff as backups so it would have more dynamics and the leads more compressed.

[Heezzi]

Originally Posted by Alxi

Why do you put the Master Fader at -6db ? Because you are putting the individual vox tracks at 0db ?? What about leaving the Master at 0db and the individual vox track at -6db ?


-Alxi-

That's what I do. After proccessing, the levels usualy clip on individual tracks so I just do that from jump. My mixes will automaticly have enough headroom where the mastering engineer or myself will have enough room to work on the 2-track mix.

[Keyflo]

hEY GREAT advice philly soul, ima start doing that, cuz usually i mix the inrtumentals then try to put the vocals in...

[A Fak]

The order varys by song, but i always start with 4 elements; kick, snare, vocals, and bass. I then add the rest of the elements.

If you can get those four elements right, then your 70% done.

[irthwirm]

Originally Posted by moracspace

Boost 300 hz

are you serious.... Don't listen to moracspace he's trying to be a smart ass.. try boosting around 250 hz at about 12 db

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Alxi

Why do you put the Master Fader at -6db ? Because you are putting the individual vox tracks at 0db ?? What about leaving the Master at 0db and the individual vox track at -6db ?


-Alxi-

whatever works

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by Alxi

Why do you put the Master Fader at -6db ? Because you are putting the individual vox tracks at 0db ?? What about leaving the Master at 0db and the individual vox track at -6db ?


-Alxi-

This makes much more sense.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by A Fak

The order varys by song, but i always start with 4 elements; kick, snare, vocals, and bass. I then add the rest of the elements.

If you can get those four elements right, then your 70% done.

hey..whatever floats your boat.
Im just giving helpful advice, and if you dont want to accept it, thats too bad

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Heezzi

That's what I do. After proccessing, the levels usualy clip on individual tracks so I just do that from jump. My mixes will automaticly have enough headroom where the mastering engineer or myself will have enough room to work on the 2-track mix.

Because then I will have more headroom for the final mix when all of the elements are in place.
Its just COMMON SENSE

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Because then I will have more headroom for the final mix when all of the elements are in place.
Its just COMMON SENSE

I get what you're saying however to me, it makes more sense to keep individual channels moderate and still get the same headroom.

[O'Ryan]

Good stuff here.

[Josh.The.Goon]

I'm at work right now, and therefore can't listen to your audio example, but as far as making the vox pop in a mix, other than good micing technique (which should always be first consideration), i would try serial compression while mixing. an example of serial compression would be setting your first compressor at a 2:1 ratio (attack and release settings will vary depending on what you're using and your artist), and a second compressor at 3:1, with neither one reducing more than about 3db. This way, neither compressor is working so hard that you can hear it, but you're still getting a good amount of compression, which should help "push the vocal to the front." another option would be to bus your vocal tracks to an aux with a compressor on it, and then automate the volume to taste on the tracks you're bussing to the aux, preferably so that there is a constant level of gain reduction occurring with the compressor (this latter example would be in pro tools/any DAW). When using serial compression, you might want to use a de esser or sidechain BEFORE serial compressing, as this technique can often bring out the sibilance of a track. Of course, proper mic technique and front end will greatly help in getting an "up-front" vocal, but i've found both of the above methods very useful in the mix stage. Hope This Helps!
-The Goon

[Ray Sr.]

Originally Posted by Ray Sr.

Try to EQ the instumental to clear up somethings for your voice.

I wrote this because that sounds like a beat I've heard before. I am assuming it's a mixtape type of deal. Ya know, blending the instrumental & the Vox.
If I'm right & it's an MP3, it's gonna take some work to make it sound decent.

[lb9000j]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

how about instead of ****ing around with compression and eq settings, you try moving the mic around a few inches? Or move the performer? Or try a different room? Once you've got that nailed, eq and compression will simply enhance an already great-sounding track, plus you won't have to use as much.

A good vocal sound requires more from your mic technique (and the mic technique of the vocalist) than it does from the way you process it. For example, place the mic where you normally place it. Record a pass, then angle the mic towards the vocalist's chest. Record another pass, and angle it towards their nose. Record that, and then drop the mic a few inches. Experiment with heights, angles, and distances between singer and mic, and you'll have a much better vocal sound going in than any eq could give you. If your client starts getting antsy (which they will if they don't have a lot of experience recording and/or don't trust you entirely as their engineer), patiently explain to them that taking five or ten extra minutes now to get it right will save them hours of mix time. Plus they'll sound 100 times better.

you should listen to this guy!

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by azwun25

I get what you're saying however to me, it makes more sense to keep individual channels moderate and still get the same headroom.

Its not the same thing.

[Exmun]

Originally Posted by Biggsheff

Vox Chain - Peluso 2247 LE > API A2D > DBX 160X > ... I try not to add too much Eq. Just take away what sounds bad. Add some delay maybe a little Reverb. ...[/url]

If given a choice to boost or cut, I'd cut. But don't be afraid some boosting. Especially if you're mixing in the box. Plug in EQs are not the same as hardware EQs. They do stuff differently. So close your eyes and boost if you have to. Just make it sound like you hear it. For stuff popping out of the speakers you are going to have to do some boosting... where? It will depend on what your source tracks sound like.

[Biggsheff]

Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate it. I'm definitely gonna try better mic placement. The room wasn't treated at the time of that recording but it is now. I used Owens 703. I usually have the lead and a double tucked under for the verse and 3 takes panned around for the Hook. Then record some stacks of words or phrases. Pan those farther out. I Eq the takes differently to give more separation. I just wasn't sure how much to compress the lead as apposed to the back Vox. I don't really try to squash anything. Some times less is more. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Alxi]

Originally Posted by Heezzi

That's what I do. After proccessing, the levels usualy clip on individual tracks so I just do that from jump. My mixes will automaticly have enough headroom where the mastering engineer or myself will have enough room to work on the 2-track mix.

So in a way, it doesn't matter if the individual tracks are clipping as long as the master doesn't clip you're good, Right ?

-Alxi-