Finished Mix Vs Finished Master

[1ManBand]

Can someone do me a favor and post a finished mix and a finished master so i can hear what the master does. when i mix i keep aiming for that pro final loud sound. I want to hear what i should realistically be aiming for.

anyone help a brotha out?

does a good mix ever go straight to cd.. without any master? has it ever happened in hip hop

[phillysoulman]

Mastering is the final eq, compression/limiting which is applied to the producers final mix which puts the final "sheen" and over all professional quality to your mix and should only be done by professional mastering engineers.

BTW..if you are a "pro" should be able to tell the difference.

[chris carter]

I think it's pointless to post a before and after.

I've had records where the ME did some seriously noticable stuff (especially when trying to match with songs mixed by other people... ie differences great).

I've had records where the only way you could tell the difference between the mastered version of the song and my client reference mix (the final mix with a limiter so the volume is apropriate and they can swap it in/out with other CDs for listening purposes) was to play both back one after another to know which was which (ie. differences subtle).

And I've had records where the mastering engineer did NOTHING except maybe a quarter dB boost at some frequency and slapping the limiter on it. I can't tell you the number of times an artist or indie label has called me to tell me they think the ME scammed them because they can't tell the mastered version apart from my client reference mix and I have to assure them the ME did their job. I only wish it happened more because it means I did a great mix! LOL.

And all the recordings I'm referreing to were mastered by guys who have plenty of platinum and grammy records under their belts.

The reality is that a good ME is going to do what the song requires. So it depends on what you give them. If you give them a f*cked up mix, they are going to torture the thing to get it to sound even listenable. If you give them a killer mix they might only put the limiter on it and call it a day because there's nothing they can do to improve the sound. The only thing you are pretty much garunteed to get regardless of quality (for most commercial genres anyway) is the limiting to set the right listening level - but you can of course run a test mix with a limiter on to know what it will sound like (I label these "client reference mix"). Sure they may use a different limiter, but it's splitting hairs.

So, to know what "what i should realistically be aiming for", just take your final mix and put an L2 or some other limiter on it and get it as loud as the average disc (they all vary a few dB, so don't try for the LOUDEST, be realistic). Then take a listen and compare it to other records. You should be aiming for being able to swap your mix (with a limiter on it) with other commercial records you like and not notice any difference.

[EspionageWHW]

I think this is an interesting topic. From what I have read, Charles Dye and some others have said that a perfect mix should require no or minimal processing by the Mastering Engineer.

A big concern of mine when mixing an album has been the consistency of how loud the vocals are in comparison to the beats through the course of the album. If an album has lets say 14 songs, I hate the idea of having a few songs where the vocals wind up being to low or loud compared to the rest of the songs on the album. and sometimes the levels sound fine after the mixing stage, but can change rather drastically after mastering

Some websites that offer mastering services have sound files of A/B comparisons of their work. But I'm generally skeptical of these. I think it would be cool to hear an example of a finished mix against the finished master posted by some one who is not a Mastering Engineer.

[nukmusic]

Chris pretty much nailed it.

Final Mix vs Mastered mix....all depends on what needs to be done. the Final mix should sound good before it goes to mastering.

[EspionageWHW]

Carter - very valid and lucid points.

Perhaps I just need to work harder on the apparent volume continuity of VOX when mixing an album. Which for me, I feel equates to becoming a master of identifying which frequencies need to be cut in a mix in order to make the vocals always fit nice and snug in the "pocket". Sometimes I mix beats which have too many sounds with overlapping frequencies, making that task a big pain in the a$$.

[1ManBand]

thanks chris.. that was what i needed to hear. the reason i ask is because i read some forum on here and someone wasnt getting there song loud as comercial cds.. and someone replied with "did you JUSt crank up the volume on your mix and bounce it from your daw" and he said yes. that got me thinking mastering was doing something magical and added db to work with or something lol.

[phillysoulman]

Hey 1 man band..

If you have the UAD Precision plugs, try this on your 2 bus..and forget about the preset names.

1.Precision eq--Rock tight and open
2.Precision bus comp--Pop
3.Precision Maximizer-- 3 band slam

Send your mix out to an Alesis 9600 Masterlink and make the readout just peaks at 0db.
You should then have a very nice sounding LOUD "master"

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

Hey 1 man band..

If you have the UAD Precision plugs, try this on your 2 bus..and forget about the preset names.

1.Precision eq--Rock tight and open
2.Precision bus comp--Pop
3.Precision Maximizer-- 3 band slam

Send your mix out to an Alesis 9600 Masterlink and make the readout just peaks at 0db.
You should then have a very nice sounding LOUD "master"

if your going to use those exact presets, make sure u dedicate yourself to tweaking the input of the precision buscomp until its perfect - as of right now we have no idea how hot your sending your mixes to the 2 buss

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by 1ManBand

...does a good mix ever go straight to cd.. without any master? has it ever happened in hip hop

not sure in hip hop but metallica once did cause they didn't like the mastering.
there seems to be a growing scene of audiophiles who hunt down unmastered versions of albums for the same reason.
i guess the more mature or trained listener won't put up with squashed to death music any longer.
a good thing i'd say.

[Exmun]

1ManBand,

Something else that you might want to consider is taking one of your tracks to a mastering engineer and seeing/hearing what is done then you'll have a better idea of the difference. As far as mixing, try to create the best masters you can make as close to how you want it to sound like... the exception being don't mix it too close to zero.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Sirocco

if your going to use those exact presets, make sure u dedicate yourself to tweaking the input of the precision buscomp until its perfect - as of right now we have no idea how hot your sending your mixes to the 2 buss

I used those presets as a starting point as a means of trying to achieve the level and clarity he is looking for and yes, the bus comp has to be dealt with accordingly.

I tend to have very good resulte using this combo and my clients seem to really like it.

[Sirocco]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

I used those presets as a starting point as a means of trying to achieve the level and clarity he is looking for and yes, the bus comp has to be dealt with accordingly.

I tend to have very good resulte using this combo and my clients seem to really like it.

i happen to use all 3 (but sometimes the psp xenon in place of the prec limiter) but they are the best ur gonna get really

[phillysoulman]

Cool

[dhiltonlittle]

it pretty much boils down to that fact that you can only mix as good as you're able to. and the mastering engineer can only master as good as he is able to. if you are the sh*t at mixing then you're not going to need more than a few touch ups if that at the mastering stage. IF however you send you're mix to a guy that calls himself a mastering engineer yet doesn't know what the hell he is doing (which is the case alot of times these days) you're not going to like the results. and vice versa, if you suck at mixing and send it off to an excellent mastering engineer he will hear and fix you're "errors". find one you like and like to work with and keep the relationship. i don't think suggesting plugins and presets is a good idea at all. you guys are suggesting an eq preset without hearing the mix he has. and a bus comp preset that he is putting on at the end of the mix at this point. i'd say at the most just limit if you have too....

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by beat you down

not sure in hip hop but metallica once did cause they didn't like the mastering.
there seems to be a growing scene of audiophiles who hunt down unmastered versions of albums for the same reason.
i guess the more mature or trained listener won't put up with squashed to death music any longer.
a good thing i'd say.

I think you're thinking of Iron Maiden...

As far as I know, all of the Metallica records have been mastered. I know it's hard to believe, considering the way some of them sound, but it's...."SAD BUT TRUE" (get it?!?)

[beat you down]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

I think you're thinking of Iron Maiden...

yep i was, thanks.
they all look the same to me...
big hair, distorted guitars you know.

sorry that i'm your truth, telling lies...

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by beat you down

sorry that i'm your truth, telling lies...

Heh. Nice.