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whats the point of dither in protools
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tonyscarbones
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#1
8th July 2008
Old 8th July 2008
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whats the point of dither in protools

i record at 24 bit

mix too

then usually just bounce it at that and burn the cd in itunes with the bounced wav

whats dither gonna do for me and why should i use it
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8th July 2008
Old 8th July 2008
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dither fills in all the extra bit depth when you use sample rate conversion I believe. Takes out all the digital distortion & noise from the sample rate conversion.

If you record/mix at 48 24bit but want to bounce to a CD at 44.1 16, or you're mastering a track for CD, you use dither.
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8th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevendaysoff View Post
dither fills in all the extra bit depth when you use sample rate conversion I believe. Takes out all the digital distortion & noise from the sample rate conversion.

If you record/mix at 48 24bit but want to bounce to a CD at 44.1 16, or you're mastering a track for CD, you use dither.
Actually, dither is adding noise. Or, more precisely, dither IS noise. Nor does it have anything to do with sample rate conversion; only bit depth. It's also not filling in extra bit depth, more like...pushing the existing audio up a few bits (working from the bottom up, as opposed to the top down), sorta, but I gotta run so I can't get too into it.

To the OP: Google it or Wikipedia it for some really good, easy-to-understand answers.

EDIT: OK, I'm back. Here's the first page that came up when I typed "Audio Dither" into Google:

Digital Audio: Dither

Looks like it's got some pretty good, easy-to-understand stuff. And it certainly explains things better than I could've.

EDIT AGAIN: Go buy Bob Katz's book "Mastering Audio". Everyone who wants to buy a DAW should be required to take a test using that book as gospel before they're allowed to even turn on the computer.

OK. I had a little too much coffee this morning. I'm done.
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8th July 2008
Old 8th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyscarbones View Post
i record at 24 bit

mix too

then usually just bounce it at that and burn the cd in itunes with the bounced wav

whats dither gonna do for me and why should i use it
When iTunes burns the 24/48 file to cd it converts it to 16/44(for your cd player) and thus is dithering it with its own dithering tool.

It would probably be better to use your DAW's dither tool as I am sure it is better than the iTunes one. To do this you would bounce the 24/48 session to a 44/16 and than burn in iTunes. In this way, iTunes doesn't need to do any conversion to the song to burn it to a playable CD.
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8th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
When iTunes burns the 24/48 file to cd it converts it to 16/44(for your cd player) and thus is dithering it with its own dithering tool.

It would probably be better to use your DAW's dither tool as I am sure it is better than the iTunes one. To do this you would bounce the 24/48 session to a 44/16 and than burn in iTunes. In this way, iTunes doesn't need to do any conversion to the song to burn it to a playable CD.
Maybe...you should double-check to make sure iTunes is actually adding dither and not just truncating the last 8 bits. Even if it IS adding dither, not all dither algorithms are created equally, so it's worth investigating the different dither and noise-shaping algorithms at your disposal.

Pro Tools, for example, does NOT add dither when you select Export Audio with a bit depth of 16 when the file itself is 24-bit. You need to actually go in and add a dither plug, either during the bounce (if you're ITB), or via AudioSuite. You can use the built in dither, or the Waves or (my preference) the PowR dither, which provided three noise shaping options to best suit your needs.

Again, read up on it, do a little listening, and figure out for yourself what works best for your purposes.
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8th July 2008
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at one time i was adding 20bit dither and truncating down to 16bit.

best thing to do if try them all to see what sounds best to you and/or what works best with your particular software.
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tonyscarbones
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9th July 2008
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so if i have a track mixed in protools, if i throw dither on the master bus, do i export it as 24 bit or 16 when i bounce it?
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9th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyscarbones View Post
so if i have a track mixed in protools, if i throw dither on the master bus, do i export it as 24 bit or 16 when i bounce it?
16-bit, but if you plan on getting the track mastered, keep it at 24 (don't use the dither plug), and let the ME worry about dithering.
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14th July 2008
Old 14th July 2008
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a lot of mastering engineers do not dither at all they just truncate the 8 from 24 to 16 bits.

urban music is so full and loud that dithering isn't really needed
If you do classical music thats a different thing.
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14th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokbeats View Post
a lot of mastering engineers do not dither at all they just truncate the 8 from 24 to 16 bits.

urban music is so full and loud that dithering isn't really needed
If you do classical music thats a different thing.
I've never met nor talked to a single mastering engineer anywhere ever that doesn't use dither to go from 24 bits to 16 100% of the time.

Loudness and fullness have nothing to do with it (plus, you want to compare the fullness of classical to urban music?!? It's really no contest!).

No offense to you, spokbeats, but that was some really bad info.
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15th July 2008
Old 15th July 2008
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its fine i was shocked too when i heard it
andi van dette was tellin this at a talk on the highendgear convention
this does not mean that he is never dithering...
i talked to a couple of other guys as well and they had a similar mastering workflow without dithering.

I think proffessionals like these guys are so good cause they compare a lot. they try different ways and decide what sounds the best to them.

its not a bad info its one of a kind. try it out and let your ears decide.

I don't say dithering is useless
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15th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokbeats View Post
its fine i was shocked too when i heard it
andi van dette was tellin this at a talk on the highendgear convention
this does not mean that he is never dithering...
i talked to a couple of other guys as well and they had a similar mastering workflow without dithering.
Right on, but to say "a lot of mastering engineers" don't use dither on urban music is a gross exaggeration, and quite misleading. Not to mention Andy VanDette's career has been spent primarily working with rock bands.
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17th July 2008
Old 17th July 2008
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yes, like the man has been saying above(bgrotto), and dont forget to make sure you contact your mastering eng and ask him what format he would like and it mostlikely wont b redbook, i t will b the highest resolution uncompressed possible, let their prisms or lavery's do the converting and dithering or what ever they use in software(sequoia, etc)
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