How to Track Software synth through the pre on your soundcard

[MYAMS]

Hey guys,

I just bought a duet and am trying to run some of my softsynths through the duet for some extra punch. Anybody know how to route this in Logic 8?

[larrygates]

Yes I do. I'm not sure if you're apogee comes with that Mixer that isn't a part of logic. I forget the name of, I think it's something like Apogee Mixer or something. But, what you have to do is figure out how to route the outputs back into the inputs 1&2 of your interface. Once you do that, make a track in Logic to record inputs 1&2 make sure you keep it muted, or you'll get feed back, or you can just monitor the inputs through the apogee mixer. Then simply distort your mic pre with your synth & or drums, and record that back to input 1&2.

I personally hate the way the Ensemble distorts, but you may like your duet. I didn't lay it out exactly, but that's roughly how you do it.

Important thing is look in your manual to find out how to route the signal you hear to the inputs. You could also route your Synth to say output 3&4 then route that back to input 1&2, that way you don't have to mute input 1&2.

If you can figure out what I wrote then you're home free.

[Farshad]

Try to put at least one outboard in the chain so the extra A/D D/A conversion will be worth it.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by Farshad

Try to put at least one outboard in the chain so the extra A/D D/A conversion will be worth it.

would if I had any man. Ill experiment but the pre is pretty potent should be worth it for some sounds.

[DanDolo]

let us know if that works out I have similar setup

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by larrygates

Yes I do. I'm not sure if you're apogee comes with that Mixer that isn't a part of logic. I forget the name of, I think it's something like Apogee Mixer or something. But, what you have to do is figure out how to route the outputs back into the inputs 1&2 of your interface. Once you do that, make a track in Logic to record inputs 1&2 make sure you keep it muted, or you'll get feed back, or you can just monitor the inputs through the apogee mixer. Then simply distort your mic pre with your synth & or drums, and record that back to input 1&2.

I personally hate the way the Ensemble distorts, but you may like your duet. I didn't lay it out exactly, but that's roughly how you do it.

Important thing is look in your manual to find out how to route the signal you hear to the inputs. You could also route your Synth to say output 3&4 then route that back to input 1&2, that way you don't have to mute input 1&2.

If you can figure out what I wrote then you're home free.

thanks for the help but I am still a little confused- how exactly to do I route the output of logic into the input of the duet? Buses, Sends, etc.?

[larrygates]

Originally Posted by Farshad

Try to put at least one outboard in the chain so the extra A/D D/A conversion will be worth it.

Originally Posted by DanDolo

let us know if that works out I have similar setup

Originally Posted by MYAMS

would if I had any man. Ill experiment but the pre is pretty potent should be worth it for some sounds.

It will def work, because I've done exactly this with an Ensemble. I'm sure the Duet has the same front end mixer. He may not have the extra outputs to continue monitoring while he records. No big deal though. There may be some latency when doing this though. Can't remember that either.

As far as extra analog processing, he'll benefit a lot from just running it through his own SoundCard's Preamps. Not so much the line inputs, but the Pre-amps def. Crank them you'll probably like it, but you may not be able to control clipping. Again, if it sounds good just go ahead. Also, in Logic 8 (Pro) you can use input objects, and buss them to Audio channels, giving you control over level going to "tape." You can also "record" your plugs to "tape" using the input object method. It's hard to explain all of this without pictures, but I've been on Logic since around version 5. Too bad you didn't get to mess around with Logic when it was still Emagic or even Emagic / Apple. But 8 is OK. Sounds a little mushy, but that's a whole other conversation that doesn't need to be had.

Let me know if it works, or post some Screens and I'll let you know if you're having trouble.

Also, if Logic gets too cumbersome for doing what you like, you could download Reaper for the Mac (should be free) and It's WAY more flexible in terms of routing. Both ITB and OTB. You could do something like track your synths in Logic (bussed or individual) and them pre-amp the wave file itself.

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by larrygates

It will def work, because I've done exactly this with an Ensemble. I'm sure the Duet has the same front end mixer. He may not have the extra outputs to continue monitoring while he records. No big deal though. There may be some latency when doing this though. Can't remember that either.

As far as extra analog processing, he'll benefit a lot from just running it through his own SoundCard's Preamps. Not so much the line inputs, but the Pre-amps def. Crank them you'll probably like it, but you may not be able to control clipping. Again, if it sounds good just go ahead. Also, in Logic 8 (Pro) you can use input objects, and buss them to Audio channels, giving you control over level going to "tape." You can also "record" your plugs to "tape" using the input object method. It's hard to explain all of this without pictures, but I've been on Logic since around version 5. Too bad you didn't get to mess around with Logic when it was still Emagic or even Emagic / Apple. But 8 is OK. Sounds a little mushy, but that's a whole other conversation that doesn't need to be had.

Let me know if it works, or post some Screens and I'll let you know if you're having trouble.

Also, if Logic gets too cumbersome for doing what you like, you could download Reaper for the Mac (should be free) and It's WAY more flexible in terms of routing. Both ITB and OTB. You could do something like track your synths in Logic (bussed or individual) and them pre-amp the wave file itself.

You were able to do it with the Ensemble because it has mulitple outs. The Duet only has the main out so you can do it but you can't really monitor it while you do it. At any rate, without going out to an outboard piece its pretty pointless.


Duh! Larry said what I said in the beginning of his post. I should probably read more.

[TaazKareem]

Yeah I'm also trying to figure out the point of doing that, are the ensemble/duet pres that colored to where it would even make a difference?

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by TaazKareem

Yeah I'm also trying to figure out the point of doing that, are the ensemble/duet pres that colored to where it would even make a difference?

i wouldn't call them colored at all. they are good clean solid preamps for built in interface pres.

[larrygates]

Originally Posted by TaazKareem

Yeah I'm also trying to figure out the point of doing that, are the ensemble/duet pres that colored to where it would even make a difference?

Originally Posted by azwun25

i wouldn't call them colored at all. they are good clean solid preamps for built in interface pres.

Ok, either 1 of 2 things I could think of. You guys either haven't routed your soft synths or whatever recorded signal (drums included) back through your sound cards pre-amps. Even at minimal settings you will get a degree of "fill your word in here" to your source material. That's just the nature of all things analog. Now if someone comes and tells me the pre-amps in sound cards aren't analog I'll just stop living now. But to the point, I didn't say it will "color" it like a Neve pre-amp or any other boutique "whatever," I also told the OP to DISTORT the pre. I didn't really like it personally from the ensemble (but that's probably because I have some Amek pre's and a couple of Martech MSS-10s along with some Tube DI"s), so I didn't like what the ensemble did, he may like the way it breaks up his synths or whatever he puts through them.

2. I actually can't think of 2, I suppose I covered both in the above text. But as far as it being "pointless" to do that, I def wouldn't agree with that. Could he maybe get the same results with PSP mix saturator or some other type of even / odd harmonic distortion plugin (probably).

Originally Posted by MYAMS

thanks for the help but I am still a little confused- how exactly to do I route the output of logic into the input of the duet? Buses, Sends, etc.?

You'd have to ask me a little more in depth since I'm not looking at Logic right now what you're missing, exactly. Just go a little more in depth with your problem and I can probably give the correct answer.

[MYAMS]

Originally Posted by larrygates

Ok, either 1 of 2 things I could think of. You guys either haven't routed your soft synths or whatever recorded signal (drums included) back through your sound cards pre-amps. Even at minimal settings you will get a degree of "fill your word in here" to your source material. That's just the nature of all things analog. Now if someone comes and tells me the pre-amps in sound cards aren't analog I'll just stop living now. But to the point, I didn't say it will "color" it like a Neve pre-amp or any other boutique "whatever," I also told the OP to DISTORT the pre. I didn't really like it personally from the ensemble (but that's probably because I have some Amek pre's and a couple of Martech MSS-10s along with some Tube DI"s), so I didn't like what the ensemble did, he may like the way it breaks up his synths or whatever he puts through them.

2. I actually can't think of 2, I suppose I covered both in the above text. But as far as it being "pointless" to do that, I def wouldn't agree with that. Could he maybe get the same results with PSP mix saturator or some other type of even / odd harmonic distortion plugin (probably).



You'd have to ask me a little more in depth since I'm not looking at Logic right now what you're missing, exactly. Just go a little more in depth with your problem and I can probably give the correct answer.

Honestly, I am clueless as to how to route the output of a midi channel to the input of the duet. The duet comes with Meastro, where you can make all your settings. For inputs 1 and 2, you can choose from the xlr and instrument inputs, but offer no other possible inputs so this is where I get confused. Yes I could use a plug-in but I figured it was worth a try. I really don't like psp vintage warmer at all- it has a very unpleasant tinge to my ears. However, Sony Inflator is excellent- warm, phat, and smooth.

[larrygates]

Originally Posted by MYAMS

Honestly, I am clueless as to how to route the output of a midi channel to the input of the duet. The duet comes with Meastro, where you can make all your settings. For inputs 1 and 2, you can choose from the xlr and instrument inputs, but offer no other possible inputs so this is where I get confused. Yes I could use a plug-in but I figured it was worth a try. I really don't like psp vintage warmer at all- it has a very unpleasant tinge to my ears. However, Sony Inflator is excellent- warm, phat, and smooth.

I was talking about the Mix Saturator by PSP, not the Vintage Warmer. As far getting the signal to inputs 1 & 2 from "midi," you would have to either go buy XLR to balanced 1/4" cables (2x) or if you can use the pre-amps through the 1/4" of the duet just 2 balanced 1/4" cables. I doubt you could do that though. So it would go like this. Output 1/2 of the Duet goes into input 1/2 of the Duet XLR. In Maestro you "may" have to route output 1/2 to input 1/2. OR, you can just record enable input 1/2 in Logic and MAKE SURE you mute the inputs WHILE RECORDING. I would imagine on the Duet it only has 2 outputs, so you'd be hard pressed to monitor what you're hearing, unless you use headphones. Actually you'll probably only be able to hear through headphones since you'll have to unhook your speakers since they're coming from output 1/2. As far as a "MIDI" track goes, the midi just carries your NOTE ON/OFF info (and a shit load of other info) to SOFTWARE INSTRUMENT tracks in Logic (I forget what they're called exaclty). On the Software track, that's simply plain audio information coming out and you can select the output you desire the soft synth to come out of. That's where if you had multiple outputs you could listen while you record.

[Synthy08]

is there a way to do this with my firewire 1814 and pro tools 7.4?.

[larrygates]

Is the 1814 M-Audio based? If it is, then that will be even easier.

In your M-Audio mixer, you would route out 1&2 to in 1&2. Or actually out 3&4 to in 1&2. On your physical piece of gear you would put a cable in out 3 into mic in 1 and so on.

In Pro-Tools, you route your synth to output 3&4 and arm an audio track with in 1&2. Or just arm an aux track and listen live. But I would print before you're done. There may be latency too. But you will be able to calculate it and adjust it down to the sample level. There are tons of tutorials on how to do it. Ableton Live is a good place to look for that info.

[PettyCash]

If you dont have any outboard pres to add some additional color to the sound, the next best choice could be to try out some plugin stuff like Analog Channel, or Colortone Pro. Look into it if you are interested, and learn what it can do for your audio when applied correctly.

[MYAMS]

how many of you guys here like colortone? I have PSP vintage warmer but I don't like it anymore I find it be harsh and unpleasant.

[T. Gundersen]

Colortone is great for some things.. I sometimes use it on a synth-bus. However I often just track my synths though a great tube DI and compressor (Tube-Tech pre/GyratecX Vari-Mu comp).

[larrygates]

hmm let's see here.

Tube DI = 500 or more dollars.

Gyraf comp = 4000 dollars

Tube Tech Pre = $$$

Colortone = 129 dollars

M-Audio sound card = 400 dollars

There seems to be something that's off here. I don't think these guys have 7000 dollars to spend. Obviously you do, and you would like to let everyone know that you have more money than they do. Thanks a lot. You really helped. I'll help them route their Massive Passive, GML 2020, and Vari-Mu compressors next time??????