hip hop vocals...mixing question

[genericperson]

hi guys,

i was hoping thrill or e-que, etc. could chime in here:

let's say you have a rap track created. then you add the vocals.

when it comes time to mix, is there a "standard" thing to do in terms of getting the vocals to sit in?

i'm wondering if it is common to have the vocals duck an instrument (with something like a DS-201), or just use a comp/limiter on the 2-buss, etc.

just wondering if there is some sort of "convention" when it gets to this stage of the mix.

(it's not really a gear question, but more of a mixing question).

[e-cue]

In my experience, no... There is no "standard". A couple years back we had much more emcee vocal gymnastics style artists, and they would lend themselves to becoming compressed a lot (upwards of -9 dB, whatever) to compensate to breath control so they wouldn't run out of steam at the end of a phrase. This is less of the case considering the current state of hiphop. There's also the issue of how the vocal was tracked. A lot of producers, many poor engineers, have home set up's they record with and sometimes compress the dogwater out of your vocal before you even see it, in which case you get out the pencil tool and pour yourself a tall glass of mountain dew. If I tracked it, I'll probably (most common senerio) take another 3dB off and vocal ride. I'm using a lot of soft knee and overeasy styled compression on rap these days. There's just too many variables for there to be a standard way to work.

As far as ducking other instruments, I do this a LOT in rap. It's a really great way to create pocket in your mixes. This year I've been keying compressors more than I've been keying gates. A lot of the time you'll get "2 tracks" (stereo track with just the instruments) and you are very limited in what you can do with the track. Using the vocal duck method (especially across multed 2 tracks) is the 1st step in turd polishing this situation.

I end up comping my 2 mix about 30% of the time and usuallyset after I have a good feeling that all the drops (mutes, if any) are done.

I'd like to see a response from EngineEars too.

[jebjerome]

What might you duck - synths, samples and guitars ? Or do you often duck the bass or drums? Or all of the above?

I've been thinking about doing this, but haven't really got it to work well.

[EngineEars]

The key with most of the tracks I get is to make the vocal have a bit of fidelity. The majority of my hip hop clients are home studio recordist with Rode NT-2’s, AKG 414’s or even Shure SM58's straight into a Digi 001 mic pre. (Not the greatest sound on earth) I always find that after basic dynamics are smoothed out, excitement is often needed. If this is the case I’ll do the old Dolby A encoded trick followed by one of my favorite compressors for rap vocals, a blackface 1176 @ 20:1. I love this compressor on drums as is most rap vocals are very percussive. If I really need aggression I’m not afraid to add a little saturation via a sansamp and make sure that it’s not too essy with a deesser. (I like the Waves plug in) As far as mix balance, my kicks are always on top of everything and the vocal and snare usually share the same space. In some cases the snare will be ducked by the lead vocal via clean plug in compressor, making sure the attack remains, but the level just barely sinks. You always hear all the vocals and have no problem knowing how to bob ya head. This usually makes people that come to me happy, seeing as though most of their tracks suck, the least I could do for them is make the vocal something that people would want to listen to.

[e-cue]

Originally posted by jebjerome
What might you duck - synths, samples and guitars ? Or do you often duck the bass or drums? Or all of the above?

I've been thinking about doing this, but haven't really got it to work well.

I never duck kick, snare, or bass in urban music. It's usually the sounds that are "busy"... If you turn 'busy' tracks down, the tracks can loose their excitement. Ducking with a gate can make things sound like amateur fader rides done by someone that works as a gear dealer by day, but claims to be an engineer by nightfall. Sometimes keying a compressor is a more subtle way to get elements to play nice. Here's a link to an example so you can hear what I'm talking about:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...threadid=23600

[Charlie-O]

That was good game E-Que..... never thoght of doing t his myself. Ive ducked bass linesw behind kicks, but tthe hat and strings behind when things get busy, makes so much sense, especially for lazy guys like me who scare away from fader rides.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by genericperson
hi guys,

i was hoping thrill or e-que, etc. could chime in here:

let's say you have a rap track created. then you add the vocals.

when it comes time to mix, is there a "standard" thing to do in terms of getting the vocals to sit in?

i'm wondering if it is common to have the vocals duck an instrument (with something like a DS-201), or just use a comp/limiter on the 2-buss, etc.

just wondering if there is some sort of "convention" when it gets to this stage of the mix.

(it's not really a gear question, but more of a mixing question).

No standard for me.

I don't do that much ducking.

I prefer to do automation rides.

Most rap though is not that busy, like R&B or pop can be for example.

I tend to compress leads in mixdowns on every genre.

[Inner Light]

These are great tips. thanks guys

I really liked the idea of ducking the bass and kick

[Jules]

Welcome to August 2005!