Compression on Hip Hop Beats

[syra]

Hey guys...when you mix hip-hop stuff what do you find yourselves doing often with the drums? For example 90% of the times when I mix rock there will be a parallel comp (...C2) running underneath the main drum buss...

I've noticed that this technique doesn't work as good with electronic beats. How do you go about compressing that s**t then?...

peace

[NIGHT'SCHILD]

I like to use a few different compressors on my drums. Usually I use a high compression ratio on snare and toms. Then I run a lower compression ratio on the bass drum something like 3.5:1. Then I like to add a little bit of reverb and delay on the bass drum post compression.

[Charlie-O]

Try not compressing at all, from my experience it only makes things sound smaller..... Digidisigns expander works ggreat on snr and bass, and dupicating tracks and compressing the duplicate sually gives pleasing results!

[syra]

So...it seems its more of an individual tracks kind of compression...not a drum buss thing...I can definately hear more separation on the overall hip hop drum sound compared to rock records but then again they squash stuff so much it does sound glued...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by syra
So...it seems its more of an individual tracks kind of compression...not a drum buss thing...I can definately hear more separation on the overall hip hop drum sound compared to rock records but then again they squash stuff so much it does sound glued...

Not necessarily true.

You do whatever the track needs.

Sometimes its mult and split compression with a drum sub.

Sometimes its just the tracks raw with a little bit of compression overall.

For me in the past its often more of the first one.

Split and mults on certain instruments(Kick,snare and bass) sent to a drumbuss that is compressed also.

Same for the rock thing.

[jho]

Agree w/Thrill (as usual). Most options when you actually get the kick and clap out as separate as opposed to premade loops a producer might bring in. I like to bounce the kick thru the C2 back to PT and add waves renbass, that can be pretty happening....when it works it's awesome but doesn't always work. Clap thru digi smack plug or distressor.....You already know ! :P

Gotta put some 'dirty south' on it here in Hot-Lanta !

thumbsup

[Charlie-O]

I think it really depends on the sub genre of hip hop:

ie:

1. west coast
2. east coast
3. southern
4. midwest

These areas have there own sound that is not subtle, its very distinct. A sampled kick usually was already processed on the pice you sampled from, wich is why you liked it, it may not need all the processing a keyoards kick might.

Heres a good question. How are people taming there lows? Compression (multiband), eq, bassplugs, I struggle here!

Perhaps its my room! eeek!

[syra]

...I don't like answers like "it all depends". I like "the formula for #1 Hip-hop beat is on page 13"...

seriously...I would think the overall general approach mixing Electronic beats would be different from working with real drums...I'll try the C2 renbass trick...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by syra
...I don't like answers like "it all depends". I like "the formula for #1 Hip-hop beat is on page 13"...

seriously...I would think the overall general approach mixing Electronic beats would be different from working with real drums...I'll try the C2 renbass trick...

Not really,

A lot of the modern mixing techniques for acoustic drum and bass tracks came from the engineers that were all doing the electronic stuff back in the 80's.

When they switched over to doing rock in the 90's, they just adopted the techniques over.

[jho]

Originally posted by syra
...I don't like answers like "it all depends". I like "the formula for #1 Hip-hop beat is on page 13"...
.

I wish I had the book, I'd tell you the page, paragraph and word number...

I tend to write my own book as I go along and then burn it afterwards...or was that rice paper?

[bdunard]

So when you say mult the source track and compress. Are you saying (ITB terms); copy the track add compression to one of the tracks and blend with the original. Which one do you usally end up using a hotter level on? Just curious as I've never used this method.

On another note...what about widening a vocal to take more space in the mix. I've tried copying the track and nudging it and then panning it. Any other tricks?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by bdunard
So when you say mult the source track and compress. Are you saying (ITB terms); copy the track add compression to one of the tracks and blend with the original. Which one do you usally end up using a hotter level on? Just curious as I've never used this method.

On another note...what about widening a vocal to take more space in the mix. I've tried copying the track and nudging it and then panning it. Any other tricks?

Hi.

I only do mults and splits on analog since i tend to mix on a console.

Also the processors you use are key and the best ones for this purpose are analog as well.

I believe the same theoretically should apply when mixing on a DAW minus the latency involved.

Widening a vocal?

Do you mean lead or back vocals?

[bdunard]

I am speaking about lead vox. I have this track of a raspy female vocalist and she goes from a whisper to a scream, so dynamically the track is all over the place. I have compressed and expanded it as well as manually going over the volume. I just wish it would set out front more consistenly. I doubled the vocal but it wasn't real easy for her since she had just gotten into the song. Maybe I will post an .mp3 and you can tell me. If I do should I post the track or just the vocal? Thanks.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by bdunard
I am speaking about lead vox. I have this track of a raspy female vocalist and she goes from a whisper to a scream, so dynamically the track is all over the place. I have compressed and expanded it as well as manually going over the volume. I just wish it would set out front more consistenly. I doubled the vocal but it wasn't real easy for her since she had just gotten into the song. Maybe I will post an mp3 and you can tell me. If I do should I post the track or just the vocal? Thanks.

Normally when mixing leads i compress them a touch(very high thresholds).

I do this to keep the mids present in the mix and to iron out any anomalies in the track.

I do spend a lot of time matching up the right comp for a lead(very important).

I also tend to make the comp freq dependent though(by placing an EQ before it)..

And i do automate the performances heavily.

I prefer this sound to just flattening out the performance with a comp on stun.

Its been years since i expanded a vocal.

If its getting tough for you controlling the performance, split of the sections on different tracks and treat them all differently.

I also add processing to the performance.

Depending on the music style it maybe a more in your face sound(drier processed with delays,pitch shifting and short ambiences).

Or lush if its a ballad.

One last thing to mention is that part of the reason i tend to get great lead balances pretty quick is that i mix them first and build the mix around it. That way it won't get swallowed up by the other instruments.

[Jules]

Welcome to August 2005!

[charliemizza]

I also tend to make the comp freq dependent though(by placing an EQ before it)..

How do you do this on Pro Tools - Literaly place a plug in above the comp on the insert? Or eq the racks BEFORE you send them to the AUX tracks?

[irthwirm]

top to bottom... so yes

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by syra

Hey guys...when you mix hip-hop stuff what do you find yourselves doing often with the drums? For example 90% of the times when I mix rock there will be a parallel comp (...C2) running underneath the main drum buss...

I've noticed that this technique doesn't work as good with electronic beats. How do you go about compressing that s**t then?...

peace

The individual drum samples are usually compressed already. More compression becomes overkill.

[beat you down]

haven't been using any on drums for a while. adsr shape by hand.

[Straight]

use no or little compression and use a harmonic exciter

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by Charlie-O

Heres a good question. How are people taming there lows? Compression (multiband), eq, bassplugs, I struggle here!

Perhaps its my room! eeek!

Low end roll off on every track. Roll off the low end on every instrument that has no relevancy in and just about the bass frequencies.

If you have a very strong bassline in the beat, roll off some of the low end on the kick(s) or tune the kicks so they work with the bassline.

You can also use psychoacoustic enhancers like RBass or Maxxbass to add more bass presence on your kicks and bassline without over-doing the low end eqing to the actual sound. Its very easy to muddy-up a mix, gotta be very careful when working in the bass frequency.

[feedback711]

Originally Posted by Charlie-O

Try not compressing at all, from my experience it only makes things sound smaller..... Digidisigns expander works ggreat on snr and bass, and dupicating tracks and compressing the duplicate sually gives pleasing results!

thats what the make up gain is for. it sounds like some of you dont really get whata compressor does.


even though you understand what it does you dont getit.


i know every situation is different but if you put a comp on your drum sends

you can tame the snare and the toms or what ever sounds your using then you can boost the make up bringing all the drums in the back round up front with out over driving the snare or other drums that may be loud and midrange.

compression is not a mix fix. if used right it can fatten up your drums a little but for the most part you dont want to put too many comps or over comp your drums. the effect a comp has on the drums is ver subtle unless adding punch to rockdrumsets.

just keep in mind tha you will be compressing vox over that beat and that track in all will be comped and when mastered it will be expanded or rick wall limited so too much comping early on will destroy your mix at the end

[feedback711]

try this eq and comp setting on a kick drum.


since no one wants to throw any suggestions out there i will show you whereto start your kick at then play it in the mix and adjust it to fit in



eq settings.

7.68 db bbost at 33hz there is usually a spot inbetween 700hz and 1000hz where you and cut 3 or 4 db out that will leave the low end but cut out the freq that clashes oe overpowers the low. do a narrow q and fish for this freq. then 6.92 db boost at 2200hz 3.80db boost at 5khz


sometimes i might run a high pass fileter at 18hz or 20 hz depending on how bassy the kick is after i eq....


now for the comp settings


thresh -35db ratio is 1.56:1 attack 32.2ms reslease is 215.3 ms now if that makes your kick really low boost the gain on the comp untill the kick is back up to a appropriate volume.



this is one of many setings each kick will sit in a different part of the spectrum so be prepared to change your settings....just follow your ears.

[DAH]

I do use comp on kickz and snares + pre- and post-EQ to tailor the sound of sample.
Heres`s a snippet where I used pre-eq ->comp (about 6 db reduction) -> post-eq on the kick, and only adsr tuning on the snare drum. Massive Eq ing on the initially very low-level hihat.

[kitchenglitch]

I've been combing the internets for compression tips, this is a great thread. I've heard of gearslutz before, but I didn't know it was this active. Anyway, I thought this compression tip might add to the discussion. Compression is kind of an unexplored frontier for me (been obsessed with sound design) and getting that tip in my RSS prompted me to go educate myself.

[kitchenglitch]

Originally Posted by PettyCash

Low end roll off on every track. Roll off the low end on every instrument that has no relevancy in and just about the bass frequencies.

If you have a very strong bassline in the beat, roll off some of the low end on the kick(s) or tune the kicks so they work with the bassline.

You can also use psychoacoustic enhancers like RBass or Maxxbass to add more bass presence on your kicks and bassline without over-doing the low end eqing to the actual sound. Its very easy to muddy-up a mix, gotta be very careful when working in the bass frequency.

Yo Petty, I like your advice. So are you saying roll off everything? Including guitars and vocals?

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by syra

...I don't like answers like "it all depends". I like "the formula for #1 Hip-hop beat is on page 13"...

seriously...I would think the overall general approach mixing Electronic beats would be different from working with real drums...I'll try the C2 renbass trick...

There is no formula..just use your ears and the search function here on GS as there are TONS of posts on the "C" word
BTW..so many hip hop/rap tracks SUCK because of the overuse and misunderstanding of how and why compression is used.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by kitchenglitch

Yo Petty, I like your advice. So are you saying roll off everything? Including guitars and vocals?

Its a good idea to use as many hi pass filters as you have tracks in your mix. Low end is where a lot of people run into problems. I'm also into super clean and tight sounding mixes, so this helps me to keep things in check.

For a guitar you can start by hi passing around the area of 100hz. For Vocals, try from around 85hz-100hz. Use your ears to determine how much low end to roll off as these things tend to change depending on the arrangement of the song. Stick to using high quality filters.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

BTW..so many hip hop/rap tracks SUCK because of the overuse and misunderstanding of how and why compression is used.

I think it's more about the overuse than it is the misunderstanding. Some guys who understand still choose to abuse the compression they use on their mixes. It's the sound of the times now.

[J F K]

I never compress my drums indiviually.

I do mcdsp AC1 > AC2 > RComp on the drum bus, which only has the Kick and Snare coming from rewire, the rest of the drums go through the default masturing suite combinator on reason, and then into PT.

On the PT master bus, I also do AC1 > AC2 (USA-M) > RComp, all in Multi-Mono.

I attached an example


Try out some of those plugins, I think they go a long way.